Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead

[Roadglide]

Hmm. Apparently they were, since the guy was shot to death.


Or in Colion Noir's words, run if you can, or fight like hell if you're cut off.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYa-LSTCS40

I agreed with everything thing that guy was saying right up until he said what I saw when I watched that video. I stopped there. Anything after that is opinion. I guess everything before was as well but to pass judgement on a situation you have very little knowledge of is disingenuous at best. He wasn’t there, he doesn’t know all the facts.

 

[Mountain]

Watching the 'chase' video I can see tons of cover and way too many logical places to be running and/or hiding if you are an escaping perp. The guy was jogging- not running- jogging, down the middle of the road.

Those two dumb rednecks deserve to be charged with murder and if I were on a jury, based on the facts thus far I'd push to convict. Now if they had only said they were taking out an entitled @sshole runner who was impeding traffic flow, I'd settle for nothing less than full acquittal and buy them a trophy.

 

[Reptile]

So you're saying there's video of the deceased stealing the gun from the car two months earlier, and the shooter identified him from that?

There was a video of his stealing and he fit the description.

Also this...



Black X
Man X
White T-Shirt X
Running right now X

Elvis Nope
Big Foot Nope
Neighbors Dog Nope

That about narrows it down for that neighborhood.

That's good enough for probable cause to stop him.

 

[m_n_x]

There was a video of his stealing and he fit the description.

Also this...

View attachment 355282

Black X
Man X
White T-Shirt X
Running right now X

That's good enough for probable cause to stop him.

Wow, that changes everything. He was in a house under construction? I guess they should have killed him twice.

 

[rivet_42]

Convicted of shoplifting, well there's a record that proves he was a hardened criminal. How many people post here with a record of similar youthful shenanigans, ask, "Can I still get an LTC?", and elicit sympathy from fellow board members?

Carrying at a high school basketball game, how many of us think someone should be allowed to do just that because "Gun free zones don't work"?

Victims don't have to be perfect human beings, they just have to be in harm's way for reasons that aren't their fault.

 

[Reptile]

Wow, that changes everything. He was in a house under construction? I guess they should have killed him twice.

In a neighborhood that was having a burglary problem for the past couple months.

The neighbors were suspicious of people since then and put up cameras.

He was spotted on the cameras.

I guess we'll have to wait till the trial to see that video.

The trial will be milked for as much sensationalism as possible before the acquittal and subsequent riots.

I have faith in the system.

And the riots.

 

[crazymjb]

I don't think your version of events is impossible, I just think you are giving a pretty insane benefit of the doubt to two people dumb enough to jump in the back of a pickup truck and chase somebody down "to talk to them" while brandishing guns. And, shocker, the dude winds up dead. Even if the guy was guilty of everything you claim, the video at the very least demonstrates the idiocy of the response. Given that we know these two clowns are redneck idiot yahoos in how they responded to what they thought they knew, it makes me question their "investigative skills" that much more.

 

[Crassus Nescius]

I haven't seen the video of Arber committing the robbery, but I have seen the video of him being chased down and shot; there are a lot of variables here which I think would affect your view of whether or not Arbery lunging for the shotgun is a reason to shoot him. Such as:

The duration of the chase (I would run away if attacked/confronted by hostile individuals, but you can bet if I was being chased for miles I would draw/try to fight instead of running myself to exhaustion. Not that I expect the suspects to be capable of chasing ANYONE for miles without mechanised means)
The comments and demeanor of the civilians in the truck. They could have armed themselves with concealed pistols in their waistband; instead, they came with openly carried long guns. This makes me think their demeanor was likely more adversarial and entitled than conversational. I would personally have no problem having a conversation with a homeowner if I was running in an unfamiliar area and they thought I looked familiar; however I would want nothing to do with a homeowner questioning me while openly carrying a weapon. You keep yours in your hip and that's where I'll keep mine; to introduce a long gun into the conversation with a "Hey, I just wanna talk" needlessly changes the entire dynamic.

Even if the video of him stealing the pistol existed, it's possible the quality of the video wouldn't be good enough and/or the proximity close enough to ascertain the true identity of the thief beyond "suspect black male six feet tall wearing a hoodie" But the video could theoretically exist in high quality and I could be totally wrong. Arber could be entirely guilty of the suspected crime. I doubt it though.

All I can say for sure, in my worthless opinion, is it appeared that a gentleman out for a run was needlessly chased by men who had no authority to do so. This could be my own personal bias against overweight people acting here too; if you don't have the discipline to regulate a pull-up bar and your diet you likely don't have the discipline and reserve needed to carefully and impartially enforce the law. I think the father was way too comfortable taking the law into his own hands being a former police officer and I think the lack of charges at first was a reflection of his former status as part of the privileged class; not a reflection of the lack of evidence against them.

 

[Reptile]

"It could be something that we didn’t see on tape. If you saw, things went off tape and then back on tape."

President Trump says killing of Ahmaud Arbery is 'very disturbing situation'

President Trump said on Friday that the videotape of the killing of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia was “disturbing.”

www.foxnews.com

George Barnhill, one of the prosecutors who first handled the case, defended the actions of the McMichaels and their neighbor Bryan. In a letter to the Glynn County Police Department, Barnhill said that the McMichaels and Bryan had "solid first hand probable cause" to chase Arbery, a "burglary suspect," and stop him.

"It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived," he wrote.

Barnhill also noted that he watched the video of the shooting and said Travis McMichael "was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself" under state law because Arbery had initiated the fight and grabbed the shotgun.

Neighbor of father and son arrested in Ahmaud Arbery killing is also under investigation

The investigation into the fatal shooting in Brunswick, Georgia, will also look at a neighbor of suspects Gregory and Travis McMichael who recorded video of the incident, authorities said.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Bonesinium]

There was a video of his stealing and he fit the description.

Let’s see it.

 

[calsdad]

I have a feeling we don't have even 50% of the facts in this one.

The video that has been making the rounds on the mainstream media alone - is enough to refute the story line that they're trying to construct on this story.

The guy is "jogging" down the street. Ok - doesn't really look like that to me, but let's just let that pass. So he gets up to the truck - veers off course and goes around the right side of the truck, instead of the left side of the truck (which was trajectory he was on) - and then as he goes around the truck and goes right after the white guy with the gun?

Who the hell does that. Why didn't he just turn around? When he went around the right side of the truck - why didn't he take off down that side road?

They almost got me on this one - "OMG - look two white racists in a pickup truck harrassing some poor black kid in a nice suburban neighborhood!!".

Then they just kept playing the video over and over again and it just made no sense.

 

[E.Stoner]

I didn't read anything in this thread and generally ignore msm/social medea reports about anything relating to these things until all the information is out there. Everybody is always in such a hurry to make these things fit narratives and they rarely turn out how they are reported to have in the first weeks.

 

[calsdad]

I didn't read anything in this thread and generally ignore msm/social medea reports about anything relating to these things until all the information is out there. Everybody is always in such a hurry to make these things fit narratives and they rarely turn out how they are reported to have in the first weeks.

Exactly.

If you see an incident like this show up on the msm media - and especially if it shows up on the Evening News shows - it's a pretty safe bet that the reality of the situation doesn't match at all with the story they're trying to concoct.

The infuriating part is that they just keep doing it over and over and over.

 

[Reptile]

Violent criminal felon known to the 2 men.

McMichael, 64, a former Glynn County cop who worked as an investigator in the Brunswick DA’s office, helped prosecute Arbery in the past, Barnhill said.

McMichael claimed to cops he recognized Arbery from surveillance video capturing a recent burglary in his mostly white neighborhood — and that he intended to make a citizen’s arrest, the paper reported.

Georgia man charged with killing Ahmaud Arbery previously investigated him

The white Georgia man who, along with his son, are charged with murdering unarmed black jogger Ahmaud Arbery had a past connection to the victim.

nypost.com

You bet the video is going to come out.

The lynch mob against these two men is barking up the wrong tree.

It's all going to come out.

 

[Roadglide]

I don't think your version of events is impossible, I just think you are giving a pretty insane benefit of the doubt to two people dumb enough to jump in the back of a pickup truck and chase somebody down "to talk to them" while brandishing guns. And, shocker, the dude winds up dead. Even if the guy was guilty of everything you claim, the video at the very least demonstrates the idiocy of the response. Given that we know these two clowns are redneck idiot yahoos in how they responded to what they thought they knew, it makes me question their "investigative skills" that much more.

Being an idiot doesn’t make you guilty of murder. It helps but doesn’t check all the boxes. Wait for all the facts

 

[crazymjb]

If two plain clothes cops chased down someone who was legally carrying and this same exact scenario played out you guys would all be crying havoc.

And again, the monday morning quarterbacking of he cut right, could have cut left, etc, is ridiculous. Go have 2 strangers roll up on you with guns drawn from a pickup truck while you're on a foot and you probably won't f***ing know what happened, what you did, and what they did until its over.

 

[RadiCS]

If two plain clothes cops chased down someone who was legally carrying and this same exact scenario played out you guys would all be crying havoc.

And again, the monday morning quarterbacking of he cut right, could have cut left, etc, is ridiculous. Go have 2 strangers roll up on you with guns drawn from a pickup truck while you're on a foot and you probably won't f***ing know what happened, what you did, and what they did until its over.

This. Pretty scary some of the comments on here.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

So you're saying there's video of the deceased stealing the gun from the car two months earlier, and the shooter identified him from that?

Several times, before that day. And called the police, who failed to arrive in time - at these times, he did not chase the burglar. He only chased the burglar when the burglar was fleeing the scene of a felony. And other neighbors had observed the same burglar on their properties, both in person and on tape from their own recording systems, shared these tapes between neighbors etc. There are multiple 911 calls from that day which spell some of this out, and much of it was spelled out by DA #2.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Wow, that changes everything. He was in a house under construction? I guess they should have killed him twice.

He was committing felony burglary according to Georgia statute and case law.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

If two plain clothes cops chased down someone who was legally carrying and this same exact scenario played out you guys would all be crying havoc.

Open carry is legal in Georgia, burglary is not.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Given that we know these two clowns are redneck idiot yahoos in how they responded to what they thought they knew, it makes me question their "investigative skills" that much more.

Well one of them was a professional investigator for the DAs office for 20 years, and a police officer for a further 7 years... Typical "redneck idiot yahoo"?

And they had the legal right to pursue the burglar under Georgia law...

 

[Drix]

What is clear is that the shooter wasn't at the scene of a crime and didn't follow him from there. "that very moment" didn't happen. The shooter himself stated that he thought he looked like the suspect in a string of break ins. That's what he knew at that time, assuming he is telling the truth. And the shooter was in his own front yard when he decided to chase the victim.

Or are you saying the shooter lied to police, that he was in fact at the scene of a crime and saw the victim committing the crime and gave chase from that point. And he just figured that wasn't what he should tell the police?



I've said it before, if the shooter had personally seen a crime in progress and chased a perpetrator from that point, the situation would be very different. But that didn't happen.

Good a place as any to remind people Georgia's laws are pretty specific:

1. You must have witnessed the crime to make a citizen's arrest, unless the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping- in such a case a person may arrest another on reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion, but they still meet the crime in presence or immediate knowledge criteria.
2. You cannot use deadly force in a citizens arrest.
3. You cannot be the aggressor in the altercation.

Georgia 17-4-60

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.
If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Georgia 16-3-21- Use of force for self defense:

(b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:
(1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;
(2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or
(3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.

This is like the Mcglockton and Drejka bullshit- its a political stunt to take away stand your ground laws. This guy is going to face a grand jury for his dirty shoot, and I'm going to upgrade my prediction to going to prison for manslaughter at a minimum.

 

[Mountain]

Good a place as any to remind people Georgia's laws are pretty specific:

1. You must have witnessed the crime to make a citizen's arrest, unless the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping- in such a case a person may arrest another on reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion, but they still meet the crime in presence or immediate knowledge criteria.
2. You cannot use deadly force in a citizens arrest.
3. You cannot be the aggressor in the altercation.

Georgia 17-4-60

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.
If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Georgia 16-3-21- Use of force for self defense:

(b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:
(1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;
(2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or
(3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force.

This is like the Mcglockton and Drejka bullshit- its a political stunt to take away stand your ground laws. This guy is going to face a grand jury for his dirty shoot, and I'm going to upgrade my prediction to going to prison for manslaughter at a minimum.

Logic + fact? Wrong thread for that.

 

[Mass-diver]

Hopefully we get to see the video (of the burglary).

 

[67ray]

What the yahoo rednecks posting on this forum thread should learn from the yahoo redneck killers discussed in this thread:

Hell has just begun for these two
They will not have two nickels to rub together after this is done: no house, no truck, nothing. Whether they are found guilty or not guilty.
They have lost any semblance of a normal life from this moment on.
If they somehow evade prison before they die, they will never be relaxed nor ever "free" of who may decide to even the score.

One has to ask: was it worth it? To be the 'hero' in the capture of an alleged burglary suspect? Retaliation for allegedly jacking your M&P?

Yes NES you can be right all the way to the grave. As the old saying goes would you rather be right or be happy?

.

 

[number9]

Well one of them was a professional investigator for the DAs office for 20 years, and a police officer for a further 7 years... Typical "redneck idiot yahoo"?

And they had the legal right to pursue the burglar under Georgia law...

Glynn County commissioner says DA blocked arrests after fatal shooting

Two Glynn County commissioners say District Attorney Jackie Johnson’s office refused to allow the Glynn County Police Department to make arrests immediately after the Feb. 23 shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery.

www.ajc.com

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Glynn County commissioner says DA blocked arrests after fatal shooting

Two Glynn County commissioners say District Attorney Jackie Johnson’s office refused to allow the Glynn County Police Department to make arrests immediately after the Feb. 23 shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery.

www.ajc.com

The police were ready to arrest at the scene... that would be before knowing the facts of the matter, including viewing the multiple videos of the events which may have proved their actions were within the law. The first prosecutor held off arrest to view such facts, felt no arrest was warranted, then recused. The second prosecutor in an unrelated office, to whom the case was handed, similarly stated that the two mens actions were within the law and that they should not be arrested. The third prosecutor also felt no need to arrest the men for the weeks in which it was his case, then agreed to a grand jury to decide of charges should be brought only after enormous political pressure and sudden media coverage.... then the GBI made an arrest and brought charges before the grand jury arranged by the 3rd prosecutor could be convened.

Everyone will have a story walking back any involvement so their job isn't at risk, or their house, or their family...

 

[KBCraig]

Well one of them was a professional investigator for the DAs office for 20 years, and a police officer for a further 7 years... Typical "redneck idiot yahoo"?

You're actually asking that with a straight face, as if being a Georgia cop and a "redneck idiot yahoo" are mutually exclusive?

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Good a place as any to remind people Georgia's laws are pretty specific:

1. You must have witnessed the crime to make a citizen's arrest, unless the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping- in such a case a person may arrest another on reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion, but they still meet the crime in presence or immediate knowledge criteria.
2. You cannot use deadly force in a citizens arrest.
3. You cannot be the aggressor in the altercation.

Georgia 17-4-60

A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge.
If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion.

Georgia 16-3-21- Use of force for self defense:

(b) A person is not justified in using force under the circumstances specified in subsection (a) of this Code section if he:
(1) Initially provokes the use of force against himself with the intent to use such force as an excuse to inflict bodily harm upon the assailant;
(2) Is attempting to commit, committing, or fleeing after the commission or attempted commission of a felony; or
(3) Was the aggressor or was engaged in a combat by agreement unless he withdraws from the encounter and effectively communicates to such other person his intent to do so and the other, notwithstanding, continues or threatens to continue the use of unlawful force

Being that the burglar was fleeing the commission of a felony (not fact in question; he was inside the dwelling, which is felony burglary, and he was fleeing) he could not have been "justified in using force" by the standard written there... his actions would not be "self defense" under any circumstance.

The mere presence or display of a firearm is not a provocation for the use of force in an open carry state. Force was not used in "making a citizens arrest" - the attempt was made to make a citizens arrest, at which time the man attempting to make the arrest was attacked. From that point onward he was defending himself, unless you contend that he "provoked the use of force against him" by acting within the law (i.e. carrying a firearm openly, attempting a citizens arrest without the use of force, etc). The alternative would suggest that anyone performing a citizens arrest would be legally bound to simply have to lay there being beaten to death if attacked while making such an arrest.

 

[KBCraig]

Oh you mean AFTER he attacked.

No, I mean after he WAS attacked.

He was seen on video stealing the gun.

Extreme caution and defensive measures are warranted when dealing with gun thieves.

They can be very ornery and unpredictable as seen in the video where the black guy attacked, beat and attempted to disarm the guy with the shotgun.

Since he was the same guy who stole the gun the cops should search his house for the gun.

Attempting to disarm a person can be grounds for lethal force.

The black guy escalated the situation by going on the attack and giving a beating to the guy with the shotgun.

I know that if I was running through a neighborhood that I’d just robbed and some guys in a truck stop in the road I’d keep running.

The black guy confronted and attacked, beat and attempted to disarm the white guy.

He had the ability to avoid the men but he chose to attack. He should have left.

If you are not innocent and you chose not to avoid the situation, your claim to self defense goes out the window.

In GA, holding a gun at ones side is legal.

The black guy attacked first.

You're a special kind of stupid, aren't you?

In the South, there's a special word for that: ignernt. Not "ignorant", which means "without knowledge", but ignernt, which means actively rejecting truth.