Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead

Reptile

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A prosecutor argued that the pursuers should not be arrested.
BRUNSWICK, Ga. — Ahmaud Arbery loved to run. It was how the 25-year-old former high school football standout stayed fit, his friends said, and it was not unusual to see him running around the outskirts of the small coastal Georgia city near where he lived.
But on a Sunday afternoon in February, as Mr. Arbery ran through a suburban neighborhood of ranch houses and moss-draped oaks, he passed a man standing in his front yard, who later told the police that Mr. Arbery looked like the suspect in a string of break-ins.
According to a police report, the man, Gregory McMichael, 64, called out to his son, Travis McMichael, 34. They grabbed their weapons, a .357 magnum revolver and a shotgun, jumped into a truck and began following Mr. Arbery.
“Stop, stop,” they shouted at Mr. Arbery, “we want to talk to you.”
Moments later, after a struggle over the shotgun, Mr. Arbery was killed, shot at least twice.

 
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I hate this f***ing state.
Is it wrong that the title reads like a 80s' voice over commercial to a bad movie(at least it did in my head)?

Back on topic, that's all sorts of assed up. If I chased down all the unfamiliar faces walking/jogging through the neighborhood these days I'd be all sorts of busy.

That said there has been a few pairs of sketchy looking f**kers as of late walking down the street doing what looks like casing houses. It's pretty white bread and dockers around here but these folks look like they were straight out of some shit city given the style of clothes they were wearing and how they carried themselves, they had shitbag written all over them.
 
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What aren't we hearing, here? The quote OP took says the two vigilante types got into a truck with their guns - doesn't mention what's alleged to have happened between "in a truck" and "a struggle occurred" nor does it address whether the guy was armed. Vigilantes here seem dumb, but they're also made to seem dumb. I'd like more details and post 2013 you're not going to get them from NYT, CNN, WaPo or the rest of the racebaiters.
 

67ray

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Bad shoot they should be prosecuted.

Who hasn't walked through a house under construction? Curious do it all the time. Then for two citizens to chase and demand another stop running? Are you kidding?

Surely race was a factor with the two bozos deciding to unlimber and follow a random guy jogging through the neighborhood. While that's another issue they do have the right to be a**h***s that way in this country. But not without consequences.

Does the past record of the jogger somehow create justification for everything that happened that day? No it does not.
 

42!

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I don't know if the deceased was "up to no good" or just out for a run. But if you're going to get involved you need to have clear standards of when and how much.
My personal standard are if I see someone beating on someone else and it's clear help is needed, and I'm able to help, I will do so. Same goes for an armed assault, but the safety of my family and myself comes first, after that I'll do what I can. But if there is no violence involved I'm staying out of it. Now I might stretch this a bit if I personally see a theft and I can safely detail the perp until the police arrive. But a past property crime, and only based on a description I heard, that's a big no to me, it's a call to the popo and let them handle it. I can't imagine how someone gets to chasing someone down the street with weapons based on a third hand, at best, description.
 

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Even with frizzle-fry’s additional info, it still looks like a couple trigger happy racists invented a situation where they could pick a fight and call it justified self defense.

But let’s give them the benefit of doubt, and assume they genuinely believed Arbery was the man who had been breaking into houses, and they have lots on black friends and all that. Even in that case they behaved incredibly recklessly and should be charged with AT LEAST manslaughter, if not 2nd degree murder.
 
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I have a feeling we don't have even 50% of the facts in this one.
This - this all over.

I certainly can't say either way, but from the info available we have NOTHING between them "being in a truck saying they want to talk to him" and "a struggle ensued". Did they get out of the truck of their own volition? Were they in the cab, or the bed? Did they get out of the truck at all? Did the runner reach into the truck? Were the weapons being brandished right away, or were they brought into play later? Was the runner armed as well (runner was a felon)? Who initiated physical contact? Given the weasle-y media description (or lack thereof) and the decision by the prosecutor, I've got a few guesses.

I expect more of this kind of shit when many LEOs are choosing or being instructed to essentially turn a blind eye to enforcing the law due to SARS-CoV-2. Not sure if that's the case with this PD, but plenty, are and it sends a message of "we're not going to bother protecting you, but you're not allowed to protect yourself" and people will start to make both smart AND dumb choices about what they perceive to be defending their homes and neighborhoods.

By the way, the jump to "RACIST!" when the dude was wearing the same clothes and had the same skin color and build as the suspect who'd literally just been reported moments before, given that both men had seen him on surveillance tape just priort, is ridiculous. Apparently the two guys in the truck Nothing to suggest racism was a factor other than the usual "if races different, make race issue" drumbeating. Doesn't mean the two guys made the right choice (though apparently they're allowed to do exactly what they did under state law) but it certainly doesn't suggest racism.
 

Dennis in MA

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View attachment 352128

What aren't we hearing, here? The quote OP took says the two vigilante types got into a truck with their guns - doesn't mention what's alleged to have happened between "in a truck" and "a struggle occurred" nor does it address whether the guy was armed. Vigilantes here seem dumb, but they're also made to seem dumb. I'd like more details and post 2013 you're not going to get them from NYT, CNN, WaPo or the rest of the racebaiters.
If you're vigilantying and are close enough for the "perp" (alleged perp?) to struggle-bus with your shotgun, you done be dumb'd. Follow at a distance and call the cops, maybe??? Let them deal with the blowback???

Although when I first saw the thread title, I was thinking of the Dirty Harry alleged-rapist scene. LOL
 

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If you're vigilantying and are close enough for the "perp" (alleged perp?) to struggle-bus with your shotgun, you done be dumb'd. Follow at a distance and call the cops, maybe??? Let them deal with the blowback???
I agree 100%. However when the media starts the story with "25-year-old former high school football standout" my spidey senses tell me there is more to this one that we haven't seen yet.
 

BigTimber

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So the “victim“ has a criminal history( Including bringing a hand gun to school) of stealing and mental health issues. And there’s supposedly a video of him doing a B&E Immediately preceding the chase as well as another video of the shooting that I would assume has been viewed by the fuzz. Not exactly A Emmett Till Story in the making me thinks. I’ll wait for the rest of the story and videos before getting my underwear knotted up.
 
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My personal standard are if I see someone beating on someone else and it's clear help is needed, and I'm able to help, I will do so.
That's all well and good until you get yourself shot while trying to defend a would be rapist who's deservedly getting his head remodeled. Just because you see someone getting their head beat into the ground doesn't mean you have any idea who the aggressor is. With no other info to go on you literally have an equal chance of shooting the wrong person. Hell, even pulling a gun and trying to "break it up" will get you shot (legally) in a hot second down here. I know my first instinct wouldn't be "oh this guy is just trying to help" it's going to be "f*** here comes this shitbag's friend" [mg][mg]

Unless you have watched whatever the situation is develop from it's very beginning you're just asking for problems.
 

In God We Trust

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I agree 100%. However when the media starts the story with "25-year-old former high school football standout" my spidey senses tell me there is more to this one that we haven't seen yet.
Yes. It’s like they are preparing his legal defense for him. Facts irrelevant to the situation to paint him in a favorable light.
 

BigTimber

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Bad shoot they should be prosecuted.

Who hasn't walked through a house under construction? Curious do it all the time. Then for two citizens to chase and demand another stop running? Are you kidding?

Surely race was a factor with the two bozos deciding to unlimber and follow a random guy jogging through the neighborhood. While that's another issue they do have the right to be a**h***s that way in this country. But not without consequences.

Does the past record of the jogger somehow create justification for everything that happened that day? No it does not.
Did you even bother to read the Whole story?
 

67ray

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Did you bother to read the Whole story?
Yup. The video will come out, and help one way or the other. Did these guys do an investigation? Did they even call 911? Whose lives were in danger that they need to arm up and literally run this guy down in a pickup? Until more evidence is shown there is zero reason for two jamokes to jump off their porch rockers and chase this guy down with firearms.

I lived in the South and racism is easy to find, on any day. It's a factor. Issues such as these are not black and white (no pun intended), but know that one this will not help the cause of 2A and that too is very troubling.
 

BigTimber

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Yup. The video will come out, and help one way or the other. Did these guys do an investigation? Did they even call 911? Whose lives were in danger that they need to arm up and literally run this guy down in a pickup? Until more evidence is shown there is zero reason for two jamokes to jump off their porch rockers and chase this guy down with firearms.

I lived in the South and racism is easy to find, on any day. It's a factor. Issues such as these are not black and white (no pun intended), but know that one this will not help the cause of 2A and that too is very troubling.
All assumptions. Because there are racists in the world these guys have to be racist too? Article says they’re lawful gun owners. Article says in Georgia you’re allowed to make civilian arrests Based on probable cause, they had it. And it looks like it’s substantiated by video evidence as well as a past criminal history. Yet You know it’s a “bad Shoot” and say they should be prosecuted? For what? Acting lawfully? When in doubt prosecution? We have to assume the police And prosecutors have watched both videos, you haven’t. And they’ve chosen not to prosecute Knowing the blowback fair or not is going to enormous. Not cops their protecting here. Regular folks, So let’s jam them up For daring to do the right thing?. Getting close enough for the kid to grab the gun is poor tactics not a criminal offense. Your knee jerk attitude Based on nothing is why good guys now stand idle while evil prevails. If their klansmen looking to lynch the first innocent black man they see I’ll donate the rope myself. But I’m betting dollars to donuts we have another “good boy, a very good boy“ here, another gentle giant. who’s luck robbing folks ran out. If I’m wrong my apology will be forthwith
 
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He was just out for a run according to whom ?
He obviously didn't get interviewed afterward.
Brown was just a gentle giant too .[thinking]
A good boy, a very good boy.
Those two guys just might have been a couple of redneck racists or they were residents who got tired of shitbags stealing in their neighborhood.
I'm not jumping on the bad shoot bandwagon just yet.
 

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In a separate document, Mr. Barnhill stated that video exists of Mr. Arbery “burglarizing a home immediately preceding the chase and confrontation.” In the letter to the police, he cites a separate video of the shooting filmed by a third pursuer.
Mr. Barnhill said this video, which has not been made public, shows Mr. Arbery attacking Travis McMichael after he and his father pulled up to him in their truck.
The video shows Mr. Arbery trying to grab the shotgun from Travis McMichael’s hands, Mr. Barnhill wrote. And that, he argued, amounts to self-defense under Georgia law. Travis McMichael, Mr. Barnhill concluded, “was allowed to use deadly force to protect himself.”
He noted that it was possible that Mr. Arbery had caused the gun to go off by pulling on it, and pointed to Mr. Arbery’s “mental health records” and prior convictions, which, he said, “help explain his apparent aggressive nature and his possible thought pattern to attack an armed man.”

The bold section is all you need to know here.
 

42!

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That's all well and good until you get yourself shot while trying to defend a would be rapist who's deservedly getting his head remodeled. Just because you see someone getting their head beat into the ground doesn't mean you have any idea who the aggressor is. With no other info to go on you literally have an equal chance of shooting the wrong person. Hell, even pulling a gun and trying to "break it up" will get you shot (legally) in a hot second down here. I know my first instinct wouldn't be "oh this guy is just trying to help" it's going to be "f*** here comes this shitbag's friend" [mg][mg]

Unless you have watched whatever the situation is develop from it's very beginning you're just asking for problems.
So your solution would be to stand there and watch an old lady get her head beat in. How noble of you.
 

Reptile

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So your solution would be to stand there and watch an old lady get her head beat in. How noble of you.
You know she'll be back with her boyfriend the next day and will testify in court against you, right?

Or, you'll end up like the guy who saved the woman shrink from being killed and had his life ruined by the state for a year. No idea if she paid back his legal bill or lost wages.

That saying, I'd appreciate if you would stop an attack on my grandmother - but expect your life to be ruined, your wife to leave you with the kids, you retirement and house to be lost, and the eternal loss of your gun rights for the rest of your life. You wont even be able to save yourself when it counts some time in the future.

Nobility goes out the window in Massachusetts.

You should read Mas Ayoob's books and study Andrew Branca. Better yet, take their classes. You have your heart in the right place but to make a blanket statement that you would involve yourself in a situation is a very bad idea.

I would not even shoot somebody in my own house unless there was lethal treat. *
That was a trick comment. If you don't know why you should read up on the law and it's consequences.

The comment implies that a "normal" person WOULD shoot somebody in their house.
Don't be that person.
 

42!

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You know she'll be back with her boyfriend the next day and will testify in court against you, right?

Or, you'll end up like the guy who saved the woman shrink from being killed and had his life ruined by the state for a year. No idea if she paid back his legal bill or lost wages.

That saying, I'd appreciate if you would stop an attack on my grandmother - but expect your life to be ruined, your wife to leave you with the kids, you retirement and house to be lost, and the eternal loss of your gun rights for the rest of your life. You wont even be able to save yourself when it counts some time in the future.

Nobility goes out the window in Massachusetts.

You should read Mas Ayoob's books and study Andrew Branca. Better yet, take their classes. You have your heart in the right place but to make a blanket statement that you would involve yourself in a situation is a very bad idea.

I would not even shoot somebody in my own house unless there was lethal treat. *
That was a trick comment. If you don't know why you should read up on the law and it's consequences.

The comment implies that a "normal" person WOULD shoot somebody in their house.
Don't be that person.
Wow
Only one problem.... read my sig, you'll firgure it out.
 

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Is it wrong that the title reads like a 80s' voice over commercial to a bad movie(at least it did in my head)?

Back on topic, that's all sorts of assed up. If I chased down all the unfamiliar faces walking/jogging through the neighborhood these days I'd be all sorts of busy.

That said there has been a few pairs of sketchy looking f**kers as of late walking down the street doing what looks like casing houses. It's pretty white bread and dockers around here but these folks look like they were straight out of some shit city given the style of clothes they were wearing and how they carried themselves, they had shitbag written all over them.
Grab your .357 and a shotgun then pursue?

Bad shoot or not? Even if the runner was a dirtbag, what happened to trial by jury? Reads like a lynching, though more expedient. But hey, sounds ethnic so must be guilty.
 
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Bad shoot or not? Even if the runner was a dirtbag, what happened to trial by jury? Reads like a lynching, though more expedient. But hey, sounds ethnic so must be guilty.
According to the DA there's footage of the guy committing the robberies, and footage of the two in the truck being attacked by the guy.

Just like every lynching I ever heard of - "We yelled at the criminal, he attacked us, and wound up being accidentally hung by the rope he tried to grab out of our hands"
 
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