Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead

babygorilla said:
Except in the video intial contact happened on the drivers side front of the truck, where the runner ran to meet the driver.
And in the video you cannot tell when the first shot was fired.....
Click to expand...
What video did you watch? The first shot clearly happened in front of the truck and immediately as the shooter encountered Arbery.
 
babygorilla said:
Do you not shoot until the threat is neutralized?
Click to expand...

You're tiresome, because I've already told you that an unarmed man is not a threat to man with a shotgun.

Especially when the man with the shotgun makes the simple choice NOT to chase down the unarmed man and impede his progress on a public way.

But you'll ignore all that, and the logic it represents. Because that's what you've done time and again in this thread. Good luck with that. Or, if you think what the McMichaels did makes so much sense, go try it yourself and report back to tell us how it goes.

...thought not.
 
Picton said:
You're tiresome, because I've already told you that an unarmed man is not a threat to man with a shotgun.

Especially when the man with the shotgun makes the simple choice NOT to chase down the unarmed man and impede his progress on a public way.

But you'll ignore all that, and the logic it represents. Because that's what you've done time and again in this thread. Good luck with that. Or, if you think what the McMichaels did makes so much sense, go try it yourself and report back to tell us how it goes.

...thought not.
Click to expand...
False. Pretty much all of this. And an unarmed man that attacks is a threat.
AA made an intentional left turn around the front of the truck from the passenger to drivers side. At the front drivers side of the truck he then makes contact with youger MM, and at this time it appears the shotgun goes off the first time.
 
Its because he is a black man. That's why those who blame Arbery do so. Because he is black. They see blacks as bad. as less than them.

And they will twist themselves into contortions to explain away that they are not racist.
 
babygorilla said:
False. Pretty much all of this. And an unarmed man that attacks is a threat.
AA made an intentional left turn around the front of the truck from the passenger to drivers side. At the front drivers side of the truck he then makes contact with youger MM, and at this time it appears the shotgun goes off the first time.
Click to expand...

And your pattern continues. I figured you'd ignore

Picton said:
Especially when the man with the shotgun makes the simple choice NOT to chase down the unarmed man and impede his progress on a public way.

But you'll ignore all that, and the logic it represents. Because that's what you've done time and again in this thread.
Click to expand...

...and, of course, you did.

Again, put your money where your mouth is. If arming yourself, chasing someone, blocking their progress (not once, but twice), and then confronting them with a gun is not, in itself, threatening conduct, then go do it. And let us know how it goes.
 
Picton said:
And your pattern continues. I figured you'd ignore



...and, of course, you did.

Again, put your money where your mouth is. If arming yourself, chasing someone, blocking their progress (not once, but twice), and then confronting them with a gun is not, in itself, threatening conduct, then go do it. And let us know how it goes.
Click to expand...
I'll choose to turn that around and ask a question. You are armed, you do not know if I am armed or my intent. I run at you and attempt to take your gun away. What do you do?
 
Picton said:
Again, put your money where your mouth is. If arming yourself, chasing someone, blocking their progress (not once, but twice), and then confronting them with a gun is not, in itself, threatening conduct, then go do it. And let us know how it goes.
Click to expand...
And to answer, I never said it WASN'T threatening conduct. However the response to that potential threat is the problem. Standing your ground is not running at and attacking.
 
babygorilla said:
I'll choose to turn that around and ask a question. You are armed, you do not know if I am armed or my intent. I run at you and attempt to take your gun away. What do you do?
Click to expand...

You missed my point.

Your hypothetical makes little sense, because I'm a reasonable person. And a reasonable person does not jock up and pursue joggers with the idea that they need to stop them.

So I'm not in a position to be run at by you.

Hypothetically, what do you suspect would happen if these guys had chosen just to stay home and watch Dr Phil? Based on past behaviors, Arbery would most likely have simply... passed through the neighborhood and jogged home. The situation developed as it did solely because of the unreasonable actions of the men in the truck. And you are defending those actions, way past the point of common sense or legal bounds.

I can't imagine why.
 
Picton said:
You missed my point.

Your hypothetical makes little sense, because I'm a reasonable person. And a reasonable person does not jock up and pursue joggers with the idea that they need to stop them.

So I'm not in a position to be run at by you.

Hypothetically, what do you suspect would happen if these guys had chosen just to stay home and watch Dr Phil? Based on past behaviors, Arbery would most likely have simply... passed through the neighborhood and jogged home. The situation developed as it did solely because of the unreasonable actions of the men in the truck. And you are defending those actions, way past the point of common sense or legal bounds.

I can't imagine why.
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You avoid the question by rephrasing. Go back and re-read what I asked.

Yes, hence they are idiots 2 and 3 and will likely get manslaughter. I've said that all along. I have only defended the murder 1 charge from post 1. Unlike some here, I do not think this was a "good ole boy" lynching party.
 
babygorilla said:
You avoid the question by rephrasing. Go back and re-read what I asked.

Yes, hence they are idiots 2 and 3 and will likely get manslaughter. I've said that all along. I have only defended the murder 1 charge from post 1. Unlike some here, I do not think this was a "good ole boy" lynching party.
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If you agree that their behavior was criminally "idiotic," then spending so much effort defending them would seem to have little point to me beyond you just trying to be willfully and needlessly contrarian.

Which you've done. Congratulations.
 
Are posters saying that he had no right to defend himself against a armed man, who wasn’t law enforcement? The same defense the shooter will use is the same defense the runner would use, that he was scared for his life. So it comes down to who initiated the confrontation and that is clearly the shooter. The man may not have been an angel but wrong is wrong, this wasn’t a clear cut felony allowing them citizen arrest powers. This was a trespass that they should have let police handle. Unoccupied dwellings are tricky, there was a man in Colorado who went on vacation and squatters took over his home, was he allowed to go in and shoot them? No.. he had to get a court to remove them. This litigious country is bizarre. Squatters take over man’s home while he’s out of state
 
I would
eboos said:
What video did you watch? The first shot clearly happened in front of the truck and immediately as the shooter encountered Arbery.
Click to expand...
This post has a video: Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead
I just re-reviewed it relative to your comments.
  • At 0:19 the camera is pointed right of the truck; we cannot see it at all. It's panning back toward the truck having been pointed far right of both the truck and Ahmaud. One can just see Ahmaud's leg in the left of the frame and it looks like he's headed toward/around the front of the truck having run around it's right side.
  • At 0:20 a lot happens. Ahmaud starts out completely out of sight in front of the truck. Travis is at the yellow line just off the front left corner of the truck. His torso, including the gun is hidden by the open driver's door.
    • Ahmaud appears, moving toward Travis, apparently engaging Travis, and, close enough, or nearly so, to grab a shotgun barrel if it was held a hip level and pointed in his direction
    • We hear what sounds like a shotgun blast, but cannot tell in what direction because we cannot see the gun. It could have been pointed at Ahmaud, or it could have been pointed up the street away from him and the truck if Travis was carrying it at hip level with 2 hands across his body. Note, I was wrong in my initial analysis about the lack of sound; I cannot hear any words or shouting, but this one shot is heard.
  • 0:20-0:28. Ahmaud and Travis continue to struggle over the shotgun for at least 8 seconds, until the video freezes. They move left, across the oncoming lane out of view, then back toward the yellow line. It's not until they come back into view that one can clearly see the shotgun. At one point we see Ahmaud appear to take a swing at Travis while holding one end of the shotgun with Travis holding the other end. Travis appears to be the one attempting to back away from Ahmaud the whole time. I did not hear any other shots.
What we don't know is if the one shotgun blast we hear hit Ahmaud, or if there was another shot (or shots) after the video freezes. We know Ahmaud struggled with Travis for at least 8 seconds after the first shotgun blast.

We don't know why Ahmaud turned toward the front of the truck. If Travis had gotten to the right side of the truck to try to block Ahmaud, he somehow back-pedaled all the way to the left side of the truck faster than Ahmaud could move forward across the front of the truck toward him. I think it highly unlikely Travis got entirely around the front of the truck and beyond it in a position to directly block Ahmaud from running past. I think Travis got to the front left corner of the truck and for some reason Ahmaud came around the front of truck and came toward Travis.

Still much we don't know.
 
kevin9 said:
I would

This post has a video: Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead
I just re-reviewed it relative to your comments.
  • At 0:19 the camera is pointed right of the truck; we cannot see it at all. It's panning back toward the truck having been pointed far right of both the truck and Ahmaud. One can just see Ahmaud's leg in the left of the frame and it looks like he's headed toward/around the front of the truck having run around it's right side.
  • At 0:20 a lot happens. Ahmaud starts out completely out of sight in front of the truck. Travis is at the yellow line just off the front left corner of the truck. His torso, including the gun is hidden by the open driver's door.
    • Ahmaud appears, moving toward Travis, apparently engaging Travis, and, close enough, or nearly so, to grab a shotgun barrel if it was held a hip level and pointed in his direction
    • We hear what sounds like a shotgun blast, but cannot tell in what direction because we cannot see the gun. It could have been pointed at Ahmaud, or it could have been pointed up the street away from him and the truck if Travis was carrying it at hip level with 2 hands across his body. Note, I was wrong in my initial analysis about the lack of sound; I cannot hear any words or shouting, but this one shot is heard.
  • 0:20-0:28. Ahmaud and Travis continue to struggle over the shotgun for at least 8 seconds, until the video freezes. They move left, across the oncoming lane out of view, then back toward the yellow line. It's not until they come back into view that one can clearly see the shotgun. At one point we see Ahmaud appear to take a swing at Travis while holding one end of the shotgun with Travis holding the other end. Travis appears to be the one attempting to back away from Ahmaud the whole time. I did not hear any other shots.
What we don't know is if the one shotgun blast we hear hit Ahmaud, or if there was another shot (or shots) after the video freezes. We know Ahmaud struggled with Travis for at least 8 seconds after the first shotgun blast.

We don't know why Ahmaud turned toward the front of the truck. If Travis had gotten to the right side of the truck to try to block Ahmaud, he somehow back-pedaled all the way to the left side of the truck faster than Ahmaud could move forward across the front of the truck toward him. I think it highly unlikely Travis got entirely around the front of the truck and beyond it in a position to directly block Ahmaud from running past. I think Travis got to the front left corner of the truck and for some reason Ahmaud came around the front of truck and came toward Travis.

Still much we don't know.
Click to expand...
This is what I see as well. It is contrarian to what many here believe though.
 
babygorilla said:
Except in the video intial contact happened on the drivers side front of the truck, where the runner ran to meet the driver.
And in the video you cannot tell when the first shot was fired.....
Click to expand...
Video is clear it was in front of the truck, but even if it was more to one side of the front than the other, the shooter had to go around the open door to get there. That's a pretty deliberate act. If he wasn't looking for a confrontation all he had to do was stay where he was. Of course he could have not chased him down the street too.
 
42! said:
Video is clear it was in front of the truck, but even if it was more to one side of the front than the other, the shooter had to go around the open door to get there. That's a pretty deliberate act. If he wasn't looking for a confrontation all he had to do was stay where he was. Of course he could have not chased him down the street too.
Click to expand...

Shooter had to choose to pump and fire twice more, too.

We all make choices in life.
 
Chasing anyone with a weapon, and that person has committed no crime, makes the chaser a criminal.

If Arbery had committed no crime then he is indeed a victim.

This is simply the crux of the case. All we can do is let all the facts be placed in the light.
 
MaverickNH said:
www.usatoday.com

Security video from construction site may show Ahmaud Arbery was getting water, lawyer says

Security video from a house under construction is being scrutinized as Gregory and Travis McMichael remain jailed on charges of felony murder.
www.usatoday.com

Looks like they're trying to come up with "legitimate" reasons why Arbery was trespassing - getting a drink of water from the faucet on the back deck?
Click to expand...

The article you link mentions that many people were in and out of the constitution site regularly. Morning news showed a white couple entering the house the morning of the shooting. It’s interesting that the neighborhood watch only chased one person and not the numerous others that the homeowner as well as the article mentions “trespassed” through the site regularly.
 
Tinkermatic said:
The article you link mentions that many people were in and out of the constitution site regularly. Morning news showed a white couple entering the house the morning of the shooting. It’s interesting that the neighborhood watch only chased one person and not the numerous others that the homeowner as well as the article mentions “trespassed” through the site regularly.
Click to expand...
Good point - all of the tree-forts us kids built were made from scavenged lumber we absconded with from construction sites. We got shouted at and maybe chased a few steps but never shot at. Although the vegetable farmer on the block unloaded a few charges of rock salt at us when we made daring daylight tomato raids (Iowa cira early 1960s).
 
Text reveals police told building site owner to call neighbor who shot dead Ahmaud Arbery 'day or night' if there was a crime as they encouraged the ex-cop to be a vigilante
  • A text message shows a police officer telling a homeowner to call Gregory McMichael if he needed help
  • The text message was sent to Larry English, a neighbor of McMichael's
  • English's home was the construction site Ahmaud Arbery stopped at before he was killed by McMichael and his son in February
  • A video of the incident went viral and led to the two McMichael men's arrests
  • It's now been revealed that the video was leaked by Gregory McMichael himself
  • McMichael's daughter said that her father and brother weren't racists and that Arbery's murder wasn't a lynching, as it has been called
  • She said that the men made mistakes and their decisions were 'rash'
www.dailymail.co.uk

Cops told father who shot dead jogger to be a vigilante

Police told the neighbor of one of Ahmaud Arbery's alleged killers, Gregory McMichael, to call him instead of the cops if he needed help, according to a newly-revealed text message.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
 
Reptile said:
Text reveals police told building site owner to call neighbor who shot dead Ahmaud Arbery 'day or night' if there was a crime as they encouraged the ex-cop to be a vigilante
  • A text message shows a police officer telling a homeowner to call Gregory McMichael if he needed help
  • The text message was sent to Larry English, a neighbor of McMichael's
  • English's home was the construction site Ahmaud Arbery stopped at before he was killed by McMichael and his son in February
  • A video of the incident went viral and led to the two McMichael men's arrests
  • It's now been revealed that the video was leaked by Gregory McMichael himself
  • McMichael's daughter said that her father and brother weren't racists and that Arbery's murder wasn't a lynching, as it has been called
  • She said that the men made mistakes and their decisions were 'rash'
www.dailymail.co.uk

Cops told father who shot dead jogger to be a vigilante

Police told the neighbor of one of Ahmaud Arbery's alleged killers, Gregory McMichael, to call him instead of the cops if he needed help, according to a newly-revealed text message.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
Doesn't change anything for Gregory, he still made the decision to act as he did. But it does call into question the actions of the officer who sent the text.
 

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