Attorney/Lawyer what do people use?

[qqac]

so it should go without saying that those of the "highest intellect" will heed this advice as well....

No, the corollary is not true. Just because you need to speak to your 6 year old in simple terms does not mean you must turn to your wife and speak to her in the same terms, or that your wife must follow the same instructions (assuming she is of higher intelligence than your 6 y.o.).

For example, you might instruct your 6 y.o. never to touch your guns. Would you tell your wife the same? Never touch the guns -- if someone breaks in, just call 911 and wait for the police (being the conventional wisdom). Or would you instruct her to go for the shotgun first, and if she can't reach that, go for the .357 magnum?

if you were a plumber would you give detailed instructions to some random person on how to install a gas water heater? or would you just say "hooking up gas lines is best left to someone who knows exactly what they're doing. call me if you need one hooked up."

i know what i would do in both situations.............

No, if I were a plumber, I would say there's no way you are qualified to pour Drano down that drain. I am the only one around here professional enough to do that. It is highly dangerous. Then I would open the Drano, pour it in, and bill you $300. Kidding aside, I have hooked up gas lines and they have held for years without leaking or blowing up.

 

[Terminator03]

View attachment 20303

hmmm is right! Wow, this adds a whole other spin on this discussion...

 

[Donvin999]

Sorry qqac but the real world isn't an episode of csi no one ever knows the whole story! Now my legal experience is limited but let me tell you that you will not talk your way out of anything under interrogation! You will confess to thinks you didn't do to make it stop! Also stories can change amazingly so! Ever played telephone in school the last person gets a different story from the first one 100% of the time!

I appreciate that you wish to be honest and upfront but we aren't saying you have to lie but simply have someone there with you to tell your story better( in a way that doesent make you look bad)!

 

[drgrant]

If you establish your actions were justified, and the police conclude that is the case, the matter will not reach indictment. That is how convincing a LEO in the first instance can save you from going in front of a jury later.

Sorry, but this is pure BS. The LEOs don't consider that to be their job. That's why they collect information and punt it to the DA, particularly when a bad guy ends up with bullets in him. The only time the cops let someone off is if the incident ends up having no meat to it whatsoever.

The point is not really about subjectivity, but rather the high political and community pressure for prosecution of those types of cases, i.e. DUI's causing death. But if you want to talk about subjectivity, how about blowing a .07? Not black and white.

Yeah it is actually. The law specifies .08 A person who blows .07 is not legally intoxicated. They might face other charges (still possibly vehicular homicide, driving to endanger, blah blah blah) but any charges based on OUI would likely fail. That's why we have laws and the laws have things like that defined in them. Some would even argue that .08 is "low".

BTW, how many vehicular homicides occur where someone blows a .07? I would guess that "not many" is the likely answer.

-Mike

 

[Chris.Cal]

I always hear that if you found yourself in trouble dont speak to police and talk to a lawyer.

But I actually don't have a attorney, or a number for one.

Does anyone keep a lawyers number on them just in case?

Can anyone recommend a good lawyer or maybe a NES member who is a lawyer?

I did see the thread in MA law about lawyers here on NES but I wasn't sure if it was up to date or if they just handled application cases and whatnot.

I would hate to be sitting in the police station saying I want to speak to my attorney
and they ask well Who is your attorney? Umm I don't know.

Do most people just keep an attorney's phone number in their phone or wallet? Or do you actually pay a retainer fee?

 

[M1911]

Do most people just keep an attorney's phone number in their phone or wallet?

Yep.

 

[qqac]

. . . That stuff in their report is the stone tablets written about in the bible. That s**t becomes near-gospel and if you contradict yourself (even if the new version is "the truth") you can easily destroy your veracity as a witness as a result.
-Mike

Exactly right, but it works both ways. Let's say you are mugged in a restaurant parking lot and shots are exchanged. Let's say the mugger shoots first, and you down the mugger. Let's say the police interview a witness who heard shooting and who turned just in time to see you firing away. The witness is anti-gun, and describes you as a "maniac who just unloaded his clip" at some guy. The witness did not see the mugger shoot first. That witness statement will go into the police report. Your version of events will not, since you have asked to go to the ER and refuse to make a statement. Over time, that report sets like concrete. Forensics cannot determine who fired first.

 

[M1911]

Exactly right, but it works both ways. Let's say you are mugged in a restaurant parking lot and shots are exchanged. Let's say the mugger shoots first, and you down the mugger. Let's say the police interview a witness who heard shooting and who turned just in time to see you firing away. The witness is anti-gun, and describes you as a "maniac who just unloaded his clip" at some guy. The witness did not see the mugger shoot first. That witness statement will go into the police report. Your version of events will not, since you have asked to go to the ER and refuse to make a statement. Over time, that report sets like concrete. Forensics cannot determine who fired first.

"He attacked me. I was in fear for my life. I had to stop him. I'll answer all of your questions after I've spoken with my attorney."

You've laid the groundwork for it at the scene, but you haven't gone into detail. If you go into detail at that time, you will get it wrong, and your mistakes may be taken as lying.

 

[qqac]

Sorry, but this is pure BS. The LEOs don't consider that to be their job. That's why they collect information and punt it to the DA, particularly when a bad guy ends up with bullets in him. The only time the cops let someone off is if the incident ends up having no meat to it whatsoever.

The police investigate and gather evidence, and if they report nothing chargeable, the DA has nothing to charge.

Yeah it is actually. The law specifies .08 A person who blows .07 is not legally intoxicated. They might face other charges (still possibly vehicular homicide, driving to endanger, blah blah blah) but any charges based on OUI would likely fail. That's why we have laws and the laws have things like that defined in them. Some would even argue that .08 is "low".

BTW, how many vehicular homicides occur where someone blows a .07? I would guess that "not many" is the likely answer.

-Mike

Actually, the .08 is the per se limit, where you shall be presumed intoxicated. You can still be found intoxicated below .08.

 

[drgrant]

Exactly right, but it works both ways. Let's say you are mugged in a restaurant parking lot and shots are exchanged. Let's say the mugger shoots first, and you down the mugger. Let's say the police interview a witness who heard shooting and who turned just in time to see you firing away. The witness is anti-gun, and describes you as a "maniac who just unloaded his clip" at some guy. The witness did not see the mugger shoot first. That witness statement will go into the police report. Your version of events will not, since you have asked to go to the ER and refuse to make a statement. Over time, that report sets like concrete. Forensics cannot determine who fired first.

Just because you refuse to talk immediately doesn't mean you will not have an opportunity to tell your side of the story- under your rules (with counsel present) not theirs.

-Mike

 

[drgrant]

The police investigate and gather evidence, and if they report nothing chargeable, the DA has nothing to charge.

If there is a dead guy on the ground or with bullets in him, the DA has all he needs to invent charges.

Actually, the .08 is the per se limit, where you shall be presumed intoxicated. You can still be found intoxicated below .08.

Yes, you can, but good luck with that.

-Mike

 

[qqac]

Just out of curiousity, what is it like in the magical fantasy world you live in? Do unicorns fart rainbows and prance among the clouds? Do adorable little elves bring you fluffy kittens to play with whenever you're sad?

Why yes, yes there are little elves bringing fluffy kittens! But speaking of fantasy worlds, to those who parrot the mantra "Don't say anything without your attorney" remember that a lawyer is not going to save your butt in every instance. Even Kevin Reddington has lost a few.

 

[terraformer]

Clearly, this is a MA attorney schooled in the MA way of doing things... Unfortunately gut reactions of responding officers rule the day. But we have many a person crossing our transom who had they kept their mouth shut, would not be in jail or in criminal jeopardy. Most of them are wholly innocent or guilty only of useless and unconstitutional MA mallum prohibitum laws.

Here are a few parting shots:

The public regards lawyers with great distrust. They think lawyers are smarter than the average guy but use their intelligence deviously. Well, they're wrong. usually they're not smarter.
F. Lee Bailey

... ours is a sick profession marked by incompetence, lack of training, misconduct and bad manners. Ineptness, bungling, malpractice and bad ethics can be observed in court houses all over this country every day ... these incompetents have a seeming unawareness of the fundamental ethics of the profession
Chief Justice Warren Burger

The more laws, the less justice
Marcus Tillius Cicero 106-43 BC

 

[terraformer]

The police investigate and gather evidence, and if they report nothing chargeable, the DA has nothing to charge.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Personally, I'd take qqac's advice.

Then when I get jammed up, I'll call Attorney Adam Chu in Quincy:

http://www.attorneyadamchu.com/


How'd I do qqac?

You have exactly one post to convince me you're not a troll, or I'll ban your ass so fast it will make your head spin.

OK?

 

[Stef]

What did the five fingers say to the face?

 

[Admin]

 

[qqac]

EddieCoyle, there was nothing hard about that was there? That's because I'm not trying to stay anonymous. I am also not trying to troll, but rather present a different perspective. But if you want to play thought police and squelch the debate . . . .

 

[dlarge]

Yikes

 

[M1911]

 

[bill o]

Why yes, yes there are little elves bringing fluffy kittens! But speaking of fantasy worlds, to those who parrot the mantra "Don't say anything without your attorney" remember that a lawyer is not going to save your butt in every instance. Even Kevin Reddington has lost a few.

That is the most mind-numbingly stupid non sequitur I've read in a while.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Personally, I'd take qqac's advice.

Then when I get jammed up, I'll call Attorney Adam Chu in Quincy:

http://www.attorneyadamchu.com/


How'd I do qqac?

You have exactly one post to convince me you're not a troll, or I'll ban your ass so fast it will make your head spin.

OK?

IBTL!

Hmm, why don't I see "defense attorney" listed in those credentials?

Bye, bye qqac!

 

[Stef]

That is the most mind-numbingly stupid non sequitur I've read in a while.

He's no Jim Sokolove, that's for sure...

 

[Terminator03]

EddieCoyle, there was nothing hard about that was there? That's because I'm not trying to stay anonymous. I am also not trying to troll, but rather present a different perspective. But if you want to play thought police and squelch the debate . . . .

Well, hopefully this debate doesn't get squelched, because not only is it educational, but I rather enjoy reading your perspective on this being that you are in the profession. I just wonder why you didn't just say up from that you are an attorney yourself, because it may not have made people agree with your opinions, but it would certainly have added some credibility to your side of the argument.

 

[Stef]

Hmm, why don't I see "defense attorney" listed in those credentials?

He's busy working for a while as a public defender.

 

[qqac]

He's no Jim Sokolove, that's for sure...

I thank God I am not.

 

[EddieCoyle]

EddieCoyle, there was nothing hard about that was there? That's because I'm not trying to stay anonymous. I am also not trying to troll, but rather present a different perspective. But if you want to play thought police and squelch the debate . . . .

Of course YOU can talk to the police without calling a lawyer - You're a friggin' lawyer.

However, giving the same advice to people here is doing them a disservice.

Have you read some of the posts here? Seriously. Take and hour or two, browse the forum, and read what people think. Then, pick a few of your favorites and imagine them talking to the police after shooting someone.

Is it really that hard for you to imagine that someone might say something that would get them in trouble? Your advice on this matter is worth exactly what people are paying for it.

I don't mean to denigrate anyone here, most of you are my friends, and please don't take this the wrong way, but a bunch of you guys would talk your way right into Cedar Junction if given the chance.

 

[inerlogic]

Feelings of extreme anxiety, shortness of breath, chest pains?

[video=youtube_share;VLjzelyFuZM]http://youtu.be/VLjzelyFuZM[/video]

 

[qqac]

Well, hopefully this debate doesn't get squelched, because not only is it educational, but I rather enjoy reading your perspective on this being that you are in the profession. I just wonder why you didn't just say up from that you are an attorney yourself, because it may not have made people agree with your opinions, but it would certainly have added some credibility to your side of the argument.

That's partially my point. Attaching the label "attorney" to something does not/should not make it any more or less credible. Having an attorney when the SHTF does not relieve you from having to be independent-thinking and self-reliant. Besides, I'm definitely not here selling anything. Just posting to a forum as another gun owner concerned about self defense and the world we live in.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Well, hopefully this debate doesn't get squelched, because not only is it educational, but I rather enjoy reading your perspective on this being that you are in the profession. I just wonder why you didn't just say up from that you are an attorney yourself, because it may not have made people agree with your opinions, but it would certainly have added some credibility to your side of the argument.

Not really!

The problem with attorneys is that once they pass the bar, too many think that they know everything about everything (NOT possible) wrt law. Unlike doctors who specialize and get certified to practice in a specific area of medicine, lawyers are legally given free reign to cover almost every area of law (Patent Law and Admiralty Law are the only two recognized specialties).

I've seen the results too many times to recount:

- As a Constable I have had numerous attorneys ask me how to fill out a Subpoena, what the process is for doing an eviction, etc. IANAL, I didn't go to law school (investigated it and decided against it) and I can't legally practice law, so why ask me . . . I just serve the papers!

- I'm a "victim" of an inept general practice lawyer who my Parents trusted to write a will and trust agreement to protect my mentally handicapped Sister. He was way out of his league and it cost me many tens of thousands of dollars, including fees from a very competent attorney who specialized in this precise area of law (and pointed out some of the mistakes said GP lawyer made), to deal with this ineptitude.

- A GP doctor will usually turn you over to a specialist when a medical problem is beyond their scope of expertise. What I've seen, experienced, and confirmed with some trustworthy attorneys is that too many attorneys are greedy and do NOT do this for fear of losing revenue!!

---------------

A bit of free advice to qqac:

- Stick to practicing "boutique law" and leave the advice/practice of self-defense law to those that are expertise in that area!

- Also learn WHO will investigate any self-defense shooting where someone dies before giving out "spill your guts" advice here . . . I have, so let me give you a free clue! It will NOT be "officer friendly" from East Podunk PD! Other than Boston (who has their own homicide squad), most all local cities/towns turn the primary investigation over to the MA SP! And you haven't "lived" until you've been interrogated by a well-trained MSP Trooper! You'll confess to murdering your Mother (while she is standing beside you breathing normally) just to get out of that room and end the interrogation!