Worcester Police chief wants gun range license suspended

[tele_mark]

The piece of shit enemy of the Constitution, Gary J. Gemme:

Clearly the business practices and the integrity of following the rules and regulations don’t exist in the Boston Gun Range.

http://telegram.com/article/20080418/NEWS/804180685/1116


Police chief wants gun range license suspended

By Scott J. Croteau TELEGRAM & GAZETTE STAFF
[email protected]


WORCESTER— The Boston Gun Range’s license may be in jeopardy after police say the Route 20 operation violated city ordinances by letting people without a license to carry a firearm fire weapons there and enter the target area.

Police Chief Gary J. Gemme will ask the License Commission Thursday to suspend the Boston Gun Range’s license to operate.

The business already has a pending legal case in Worcester Superior Court where the range asked a judge to overturn the chief’s prior suspension of its license to sell and rent firearms, sell ammunition and to operate as a gunsmith.


That suspension stemmed from an investigation into the gun range, at 317 Southwest Cutoff, that followed a suicide at the facility in October 2006.

The city and gun range owner came to an agreement in the court case to allow the range to continue operating as long as the owners agreed to follow city ordinance regulations stating only people with either a valid firearm identification card or gun license are allowed to engage in target shooting or enter a live-fire area at shooting ranges.

Chief Gemme said he has now contacted the city’s Law Department and requested city lawyers to ask a judge to uphold his previous decision based on the new allegations and continued practices at the range.

The recent allegations that the gun range violated city ordinances came after police investigated a Feb. 22 incident.

Chief Gemme said four men entered the gun range and began firing in the target area.

One of the men’s handguns malfunctioned and blew up in his hands, inflicting minor injury.

Police learned through investigations and talking to the four men that only two had licenses to carry. That is a violation of a city ordinance passed last year.

After an investigation by the Police Department’s Licensing Division, authorities allegedly found seven violations of city ordinances.

“Clearly the business practices and the integrity of following the rules and regulations don’t exist in the Boston Gun Range,” the chief said yesterday.

According to police, investigators went to the gun range on March 5 and 7 asking for records showing who fired handguns on Feb. 22. Authorities allege that employees did not provide those records.

On March 27, two vice squad officers went to the range undercover to rent firearms. One officer provided a license to carry while the other said he left his license to carry at home and instead provided a driver’s license.

“He was informed by the clerk working there that it was OK and he didn’t need a gun permit to fire at their range,” according to the reports.

On March 31, another undercover vice officer went into the gun range, purchased ammunition and rented a firearm by using a driver’s license. He did not provide a license to carry, police said.

The officer was allegedly left unsupervised at the target area at least three times, police said. The undercover officer also left with a .45-caliber round, police said.

On April 1, investigators returned to the range and asked for the rental receipts for Feb. 22, March 27 and March 31, police said. Those sheets were not provided and had not been provided as of yesterday, Chief Gemme said.

“When we tried to investigate, our ability to investigate was obstructed by the management of the Boston Gun Range,” Chief Gemme said. “We were not able to obtain records.”

Authorities allege the Boston Gun Range continues to allow people to fire weapons without a license to carry.

“I think it is common knowledge the Boston Gun Range has very loose practices and allows unlicensed individuals on to the gun range and in some cases violent offenders,” the chief said.

“We were concerned a year ago with the practices of the Boston Gun Range and they are only heightened with the additional charges we are bringing forward,” he said.

A message requesting a comment was left at the for gun range for the owner yesterday. The call was not returned.

When reached yesterday, Jonathan Finkelstein, lawyer for the gun range in the pending court matter, said he hadn’t spoken to his client yet and could not comment.

“I don’t know the full nature of the alleged violations,” he said. “Until I see police reports and have a chance to talk to (the owner), there’s really not much I can comment on.”

 

[Admin]

Gemme... Well that's all you need to know about this article.


I think Gemme is Nazi for "jackass booted thug"

He's done such a stand up job in Worcester with the violent crime.

 

[JonJ]

Gemme... Well that's all you need to know about this article.


I think Gemme is Nazi for "jackass booted thug"

He's done such a stand up job in Worcester with the violent crime.

I was wondering how long it would take you

 

[Admin]

I was wondering how long it would take you

I just got in to my office.

 

[nanerclip]

I got a kick out of this, from the letters to the editor section...

Chief too quick to blame carnival

An article was published (Telegram & Gazette, April 10) concerning the carnival and Police Chief Gary J. Gemme’s desire to pull its license.

I assume that Mr. Gemme went after the license, and blamed the carnival, because he feels that their attractive activities are a magnet that draws the criminal element to downtown Worcester.

Why blame the business, after the city had already approved a license? Blame the criminal. If I were robbed entering a downtown store, would Mr. Gemme blame the criminal, or blame me for going shopping?

A carnival is a legal business that opens its doors to the public and presents them entertainment in exchange for money. They can fence off the entire carnival and make everyone walk in and out through one gate. They can charge admission, but because of civil rights laws security cannot refuse entry to anyone, regardless of how they look or whether they look as if they might cause trouble. Security has no legal authority to tell anyone what to do outside on a city street and can only call the police.

Then, why did the police chief blame the carnival? I don’t know, but it’s frustrating to have a license revoked, after you have invested time and money setting up a business. It’s always better to deny someone a license at application time than to revoke it later and end up with a lawsuit.

This must be what the Law Department told Mr. Gemme when he worked out a compromise.

JOHN M. PAYTON

 

[MassMark]

Jesus...It just gets curiouser and curiouser....

 

[JonJ]

I just got in to my office.

Ah OK. Well have fun in the office. I'm going shootin'. See ya!

 

[sig shooter]

this guys a f***in joke anyways

 

[Admin]

this guys a f***in joke anyways

WINNER!!!!!

 

[MarkM]

How are new shooters supposed to learn about safe firearm handling etc if they are unable to handle firearms before getting their LTC??

 

[matt1956]

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=35122

i know the above is not for MA, but IMO, it does show that the city/town cannot make a city ordinance that is against state law.

State law allows for this.

The law also states that inorder to obtain a lic, you need the basic firearms safety course... but by their ordinance, that would be impossible to do in Wors... oh wait... maybe that is exactly what they are intending to do...

 

[vicpinto]

The city and gun range owner came to an agreement in the court case to allow the range to continue operating as long as the owners agreed to follow city ordinance regulations stating only people with either a valid firearm identification card or gun license are allowed to engage in target shooting or enter a live-fire area at shooting ranges

Sorry to play devil's advocate but if he broke a city ordinance then he should get what's coming to him.

 

[dwarven1]

Unfortunately, this ordinance is directly aimed at shutting down that gun range - wouldn't be surprised if Gemme authored it.

Either Gemme is a serious control freak, or he's getting heat from someone about the suicide. Either way, it's obvious from his policies that he's a gun-grabber that would give Sarah Brady an immediate orgasm just from watching him trying to ban any kind of gun-related activity in his city. He simply doesn't want the peons of Worcester - and make no mistake, that's how he feels - to have any chance to arm themselves, or even learn how to shoot.

 

[Cross-X]

Whatever happened to the notion of it being legal for one who lacks and LTC to come to a range and shoot under the supervision of one who does have an LTC?

I agree Gemme is trying to drive Mark's range out of business.

Darius

 

[mark056]

Well...Mark should have seen the handwriting on the wall and pulled out of Worcester. His present location is the third location he has had in 13 years that I am aware of. Scrivner is correct, too. Mark made his deal with the devil and the devil was merely ensuring that the deal was being kept.

I loathe Gemme's firearms policies and fail to see where his leadership has improved anything with regard to the Second City of the Commonwealth.

Mark L.

 

[MauserFreak]

I think there is a serious difference running a LTC required course on gun safety and shooting. That's a controlled environment with non loaded guns until each person is instructed one on one in the actual firing of the handgun or long gun.

I have to say I don't like a felon or gang banger being able to walk in pick up a gun and some ammo and then proceed to sharpen his skills on a gun range. Never mind being able to pocket ammo for the gun he probably has acquired illegally. If I remember correctly isn't this the second time someone has gone into his range and killed his or her self.

I might be out line with the thoughts on this board but this guy who operates the range sounds like a real skid. if I had a range and someone came into place of business to commit suicide I would seriously think about a new protocol to make sure it never happened again. and if I was to allow non licensed people to use the range it would be under one on one close supervision. sounds like he just says what's pleasure? 357 you say not a problem, here's a box of 50. make sure you shoot down range only have a good time.

Like I said its just my opinion so don't beat me up to badly.

 

[dwarven1]

Whatever happened to the notion of it being legal for one who lacks and LTC to come to a range and shoot under the supervision of one who does have an LTC?

Zat is not true in ze Worcestermark. Gemme hass vays uf disarming ze publik!

Sorry for the bad German "accent". Gemme's policies give me a severe rectal pain, and I think that they'd be more more appropriate in Germany of the 1930's.

I have to say I don't like a felon or gang banger being able to walk in pick up a gun and some ammo and then proceed to sharpen his skills on a gun range. Never mind being able to pocket ammo for the gun he probably has acquired illegally. If I remember correctly isn't this the second time someone has gone into his range and killed his or her self.

I might be out line with the thoughts on this board but this guy who operates the range sounds like a real skid. if I had a range and someone came into place of business to commit suicide I would seriously think about a new protocol to make sure it never happened again. and if I was to allow non licensed people to use the range it would be under one on one close supervision. sounds like he just says what's pleasure? 357 you say not a problem, here's a box of 50. make sure you shoot down range only have a good time.

Like I said its just my opinion so don't beat me up to badly.

I'll be gentle - sort of - but I'll guarantee you that you're going get a serious reaming by our resident in Free America, Jose.

I have to say I don't like a felon or gang banger being able to walk in pick up a gun and some ammo and then proceed to sharpen his skills on a gun range.

Oh? And how do you propose that the range owner is going to tell the difference between you and a gangbanger? Go through a NICS check? We don't even require that when you take someone shooting at your club... and free America doesn't either. You, sir, sound like Chief Gemme.

Never mind being able to pocket ammo for the gun he probably has acquired illegally.

READ THE ARTICLE AGAIN. He PURCHASED it. In free states, citizens can do that, you know. It's only states like MA that make you show your papers for that. What is the range owner supposed to do, hang over every renter and make sure that they don't do this? Remember, legally, there's NO DIFFERENCE in MA between pocketing a live round and stepping on an empty .22LR casing and getting it caught in the luggs on your boot sole.

if I had a range and someone came into place of business to commit suicide I would seriously think about a new protocol to make sure it never happened again.

Like what? Requiring a doctor's note? Seriously, how in hell is he supposed to know what his customers have in mind? Are you really suggesting that he has to be a mind reader? What if I, with my LTC, go in there and off myself? Is he still responsible for MY actions? Suppose he is supervising a non-licensed person and said person suddenly turns his pistol from downrange and shoves it in his mouth and pulls the trigger? Going to arrest Mark because he wasn't faster than his client?

sounds like he just says what's pleasure? 357 you say not a problem, here's a box of 50. make sure you shoot down range only have a good time.

Gee... How strange. That's EXACTLY what the owner of Hudson County Pistol Range in Hoboken, NJ said to me when I went there to shoot (all except the "make sure you shoot down range" part, anyway). Funny, but I didn't have a carry permit, either. In fact, he had no idea if I owned my guns legally or not, come to think of it. I don't think I ever had to show my FID card to him as I never bought a rifle or shotgun from him.

I might be out line with the thoughts on this board

No "might" about it, son. Your post reads like you're John Rosenthal.

 

[Scrivener]

I took my father to a gunshop/range in CALIFORNIA ; hardly a bastion of firearms freedom. I rented guns for us both, as well as purchasing targets and ammo.

I don't recall showing anything beyond a photo ID to prove identity and age, and maybe not even that, as I was clearly over 21 at the time.

Which is as it should be.

 

[tele_mark]

Great comments. Looks like the very few lefties packed up and headed for greened pastures.

 

[MauserFreak]

Zat is not true in ze Worcestermark. Gemme hass vays uf disarming ze publik!

Sorry for the bad German "accent". Gemme's policies give me a severe rectal pain, and I think that they'd be more more appropriate in Germany of the 1930's.

I'll be gentle - sort of - but I'll guarantee you that you're going get a serious reaming by our resident in Free America, Jose.


Oh? And how do you propose that the range owner is going to tell the difference between you and a gangbanger? Go through a NICS check? We don't even require that when you take someone shooting at your club... and free America doesn't either. You, sir, sound like Chief Gemme.

READ THE ARTICLE AGAIN. He PURCHASED it. In free states, citizens can do that, you know. It's only states like MA that make you show your papers for that. What is the range owner supposed to do, hang over every renter and make sure that they don't do this? Remember, legally, there's NO DIFFERENCE in MA between pocketing a live round and stepping on an empty .22LR casing and getting it caught in the luggs on your boot sole.

Like what? Requiring a doctor's note? Seriously, how in hell is he supposed to know what his customers have in mind? Are you really suggesting that he has to be a mind reader? What if I, with my LTC, go in there and off myself? Is he still responsible for MY actions? Suppose he is supervising a non-licensed person and said person suddenly turns his pistol from downrange and shoves it in his mouth and pulls the trigger? Going to arrest Mark because he wasn't faster than his client?

Gee... How strange. That's EXACTLY what the owner of Hudson County Pistol Range in Hoboken, NJ said to me when I went there to shoot (all except the "make sure you shoot down range" part, anyway). Funny, but I didn't have a carry permit, either. In fact, he had no idea if I owned my guns legally or not, come to think of it. I don't think I ever had to show my FID card to him as I never bought a rifle or shotgun from him.


No "might" about it, son. Your post reads like you're John Rosenthal.

After reading your entire post I take it you took offense, sorry that wasn't my intent.

So what you are saying even though we have laws in place that are in my opinion also to restricting and ludicrous in some wordings. you feel you only need to obey the ones you agree with?

I wouldn't worry about a Licensed individual walking to into a gun range and offing himself. They don't need to,they can do that from the comfort of their own home. I totally disagree with you about a felon/Gang banger being able to walk in buy ammo rent a gun and start shooting. If a person did jail time for a felony offense he should not be allowed to handle any weapon or buy ammo. He forfeited his rights when he committed a crime. I guess its all in how you perceive your warped sense of reality, In your Mind a person that might commit a violent crime such as say a home invasion, you know rape and beat someone to near death and rob them. Gets caught, goes to jail for 5-10 years gets out in decides he wants to start the sport of shooting recreation. Your all fine with that?

 

[RM007]

I wood thick Ahole billavas you need a ltc to go for a safety class There

 

[dwarven1]

After reading your entire post I take it you took offense, sorry that wasn't my intent.

So what you are saying even though we have laws in place that are in my opinion also to restricting and ludicrous in some wordings. you feel you only need to obey the ones you agree with?

I wouldn't worry about a Licensed individual walking to into a gun range and offing himself. They don't need to,they can do that from the comfort of their own home. I totally disagree with you about a felon/Gang banger being able to walk in buy ammo rent a gun and start shooting. If a person did jail time for a felony offense he should not be allowed to handle any weapon or buy ammo. He forfeited his rights when he committed a crime. I guess its all in how you perceive your warped sense of reality, In your Mind a person that might commit a violent crime such as say a home invasion, you know rape and beat someone to near death and rob them. Gets caught, goes to jail for 5-10 years gets out in decides he wants to start the sport of shooting recreation. Your all fine with that?

You didn't offend me; the actions of Chief Gemme offend me. I merely disagree with you very strenuously.

You have a point about the ammo law, but I still fail to see how the range owner is responsible for what the undercover officer did. At S&W the same thing could happen - they sell ammo to be used on the range, and I'll bet money that if I tried, I could pocket a round and their range officers would never see a thing.

As for the felon... what was he convicted of? Child Endangerment? Transferring a "machine gun"? Rape? Murder? If you can't trust him with a gun, why are you letting him out of jail? And just how do you propose that we know this felon for a felon - tattoo it on his forehead? (this is a serious question, BTW - I really want to know how you're going to keep BGR in business and preclude ANY possibility that they rent to a felon).

As for a "gangbanger" - can we still rent to a member of a gang if he's never been convicted? Why not?

 

[tuna]

If you go to Vegas, you can walk into one of their gunstores (forgot which one, but the flyers are everywhere) and rent a full auto. IIRC, they just took my money and handed over a Tommy gun and a few stick magazines (so very, very nice).

What is wrong with someone renting a gun to see what they want when they get their license? Or who just wants to try it and see if they want to go through the asspain of getting a license? It sure would suck to spend $75 on a class and another $100 for the license, to realize that you just don't like shooting (I'm sure some people don't, I hate golf, but you don't see me trying to ban a driving range, although they are a waste of a perfectly good rifle range).

Non LTC holders SHOULD be able to rent a gun to try out the sport of shooting. Since most of us are afraid to let everyone know we shoot, so we aren't constantly in arguments with the anti's, I'm sure there are many people who would like to shoot but don't know anyone to ask to go along with.

Getting me to move out of Worcester and into Western MA (as in beyond the Ct River) was one of the nicest things my wife has done since she's come into my life. I grind my teeth every time I have to go back to visit family.

 

[Admin]

If you can't trust him with a gun, why are you letting him out of jail?

Bingo!

 

[jhblaze1]

I wouldn't worry about a Licensed individual walking to into a gun range and offing himself. They don't need to,they can do that from the comfort of their own home. I totally disagree with you about a felon/Gang banger being able to walk in buy ammo rent a gun and start shooting. If a person did jail time for a felony offense he should not be allowed to handle any weapon or buy ammo. He forfeited his rights when he committed a crime. I guess its all in how you perceive your warped sense of reality, In your Mind a person that might commit a violent crime such as say a home invasion, you know rape and beat someone to near death and rob them. Gets caught, goes to jail for 5-10 years gets out in decides he wants to start the sport of shooting recreation. Your all fine with that?

I disagree. Felons should have their rights restored upon release from prison and at the end of any probabtion period. IMO once someone has paid their debt to society they should have the same rights as any other private citizen.
That's how it would work in a perfect world. Unfortunately we let violent criminals out of jail to make room for non violent drug offenders so...
I don't think a white collar felony should bar someone from ever owning guns again...that's absurd.

 

[rscalzo]

Gee... How strange. That's EXACTLY what the owner of Hudson County Pistol Range in Hoboken, NJ said to me when I went there to shoot (all except the "make sure you shoot down range" part, anyway). Funny, but I didn't have a carry permit, either. In fact, he had no idea if I owned my guns legally or not, come to think of it. I don't think I ever had to show my FID card to him as I never bought a rifle or shotgun from him.

Wow...that brings back memories. But it's funny that a few weeks back when I went to do the semi-annual firearm's qualification in NJ there was a sign in the retail section..."No Firearms Can Be Handled Without First Displaying A FID Card" That is something new to me. But it is the store's policy and not the states.

By the way, you know that Joe, the owner of the Hudson County range is now a multi-millionaire from selling the property. I hate to say it but that place was a borderline dump...Unfortunatly it was convenient to work.

Now the NIC check requires a FID card with the SBI number on it before purchase and a picture ID..plus $25.00 in cash...

 

[TimJ]

If you go to Vegas, you can walk into one of their gunstores (forgot which one, but the flyers are everywhere) and rent a full auto. IIRC, they just took my money and handed over a Tommy gun and a few stick magazines (so very, very nice).

Take a drive to Manchester, NH and do the same thing.

 

[rscalzo]

Manchester Firing Line....

 

[Homer]

I disagree. Felons should have their rights restored upon release from prison and at the end of any probabtion period. IMO once someone has paid their debt to society they should have the same rights as any other private citizen.

+1. To me, anything that occurs that strips you of your rights after your sentence and/or probation is complete is ex post facto punishment for a debt already paid.

 

[Half Cocked]

I think that there are two arguments here. The first argument is about the merits of the ordinance.

First let me get out that Gemme is an idiot.

The ordinance is absurd. The range should be allowed to let unlicensed persons shoot.

But with that being said. Once the range made an agreement and agreed to abide by the ordinance they made their bed. They opened themselves up to having to abide by the rules...no matter how absurd. Now that they have violated them and got caught they need to face the music.

They never should have agreed to operate under those restrictions and fought it at the beginning and if need be moved the business out of Worcester.

They chose to operate there under those restrictions. Whether you and I agree with it or not licensed establishments such as bars and liquor stores have stings run on them all the time. They are ridiculous but it is done nonetheless.

To bust stones over one round of .45 is pretty telling though of Gemme.

It is an uphill battle to complain about getting caught violating a rule that you agreed to ahead of time. No matter how unconstitutional or ridiculous.