Unattended storage in auto

joe6486 said:
Fair enough. Has someone else tested it?
Click to expand...

What JonJ may be referring to may go something like this:

Even if you are correct, and a judge agrees that a locked glovebox or center console is proper secure storage in accord with MA law, you will not have the chance to get to that point until you have been criminally charged, possibly arrested, hired a lawyer, and spent many days in court, and likely had to submit to the risks of a trial, by judge or jury.

For most of us the potential for financial loss and embarassment is not worth the hassle. Securely store your unloaded firearm locked in a trunk, locked in a case, or locked in some other secure container other than a glovebox or center console.

Darius Arbabi
 
Cross-X said:
What JonJ may be referring to may go something like this:

Even if you are correct, and a judge agrees that a locked glovebox or center console is proper secure storage in accord with MA law, you will not have the chance to get to that point until you have been criminally charged, possibly arrested, hired a lawyer, and spent many days in court, and likely had to submit to the risks of a trial, by judge or jury.

For most of us the potential for financial loss and embarassment is not worth the hassle. Securely store your unloaded firearm locked in a trunk, locked in a case, or locked in some other secure container other than a glovebox or center console.

Darius Arbabi
Click to expand...

Sound free legal advice... what more can one ask for?
 
Let me ask this question about storing an unloaded firearm in your car. If you use one of those center-of-mass boxes with the cable and put your unloaded handgun in it I'm assuming your fine. Is the firearm still considered unloaded if you store your magazine in the same case or should you put the magazine in a different place in the car? I'm assuming you don't want to keep your magazine on your person either.
 
Good question. What exactly is the definition of "loaded"? Does an adjacent but separate full mag constitute loaded? How about a speedloader? This question has ramifications in areas other than automobile storage.

Chris
 
ChristosX said:
Good question. What exactly is the definition of "loaded"? Does an adjacent but separate full mag constitute loaded? How about a speedloader? This question has ramifications in areas other than automobile storage.

Chris
Click to expand...


Some folks that don't trust the integrity of law enforcement will always store the loaded mags separately from the gun when storing a gun in a vehicle.

Others, who may not be as fearful of the police, will store their loaded mags or speedloaders in the same lockbox as the unloaded handgun.

The only thing that MA law requires is that the guns left in vehicles be stored unloaded before being locked in a trunk, locked case, or other secure container.

Darius Arbabi
 
Listen to Darius!

Also a Search here (link at top of page) will yield a lot of info on this subject.

Realize please that other states read this differently . . . some even consider transportation of any loaded mag = "a loaded gun" . . . so even though this is NOT true in MA, you need to be aware and check everywhere you may travel to/thru.
 
CCW in Post Office

Again, for all the myths and grandmother's tales that we see or hear here and on the internet, please read this good article about how CCW can be LEGAL in a Post Office.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html

The part I like to this story is that the little sign hanging on the Post Office wall only has part of the federal law and it (conveniently) leaves out the important "exceptions." And since I don't not believe that there is a MA state law prohibiting CCW in Post Offices, the fed law allows legal LTC A holders to legally carry in a Post Office.

Right? Did I miss something here?
 
traveler57 said:
Again, for all the myths and grandmother's tales that we see or hear here and on the internet, please read this good article about how CCW can be LEGAL in a Post Office.

http://www.thegunzone.com/rkba/rtc-usps.html

The part I like to this story is that the little sign hanging on the Post Office wall only has part of the federal law and it (conveniently) leaves out the important "exceptions." And since I don't not believe that there is a MA state law prohibiting CCW in Post Offices, the fed law allows legal LTC A holders to legally carry in a Post Office.

Right? Did I miss something here?
Click to expand...

The problem with the post office thing, is that there is no
test case. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be
the test case. It's too ambigious and contradictory to rely
upon. For every lawyer that says its legal (like Firillo in the
article) youll run into another one that says it isnt..... a little too
murky for my taste.

-Mike
 
drgrant said:
The problem with the post office thing, is that there is no
test case. I don't know about you, but I don't want to be
the test case. It's too ambigious and contradictory to rely
upon. For every lawyer that says its legal (like Firillo in the
article) youll run into another one that says it isnt..... a little too
murky for my taste.

-Mike
Click to expand...

+1
 
title 18, part 1, chapter 44 of 18 USC Sec 930 :

sub section (a) states (simplified for this post) that it is unlawful to bring a weapon into a Federal Facility

sub section (d) states:

Subsection (a) shall not apply to:

(1) (simplified for this post) police
(2) (simplified for this post) Feds or Armed Forces
(3) "the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or OTHER LAWFUL PURPOSES" (my emphasis)

Sounds real clear to me. I carry the whole statue in my wallet with me. Sorry to abbreviate so much but I think you get the picture.
 
I keep a copy of my truck's factory specs in the glovebox along with a copy of the Registry's CMR on vehicle height so that the idiot kid at the inspection station stops trying to reject me every year I go for an inspection.

It's pretty sad when the law is so complex, you have to carry PROOF you are legal to show the enforcers of the law.
 
To make it even clearer (as mud) for those of you afraid to carry in a post office, just take a look at subsection 2G in the statute in the definitions of "dangerous weapons." If you are carrying your 3 inch pocket knife in the post office, you will be violating the law. As I understand it, there is no "permit to carry" a long knife in Mass. So my otherwise fully Mass legal knife in the parking lot outside would be illegal to carry into the Post Office. Whereas my LTC A will allow "the lawful carrying of firearms" exception for my Glock under the law, but your simple pocket knife is what will get you in trouble. So who is really "testing" the system here?

For extra clarification-
Can someone confirm that the LTC A in Mass is only for a handgun and not for carrying any other "dangerous weapon." (well, pepper spray is covered too.) Note that in other states, their CCW permit will actually allow for other dangerous weapons beyond just handguns. This is why I am saying that your LTC A will not help you with your 3" blade inside the post office.
 
From the article cited above:
NOTE: It is not clear whether the legislature
intended to allow persons with a Class A LTC to carry
a loaded firearm under their direct control in a vehicle
but not an unloaded one. However, as written, the
law seems to permit someone with a Class A LTC to
wear a loaded firearm in a vehicle, but makes it a
crime to do so without bullets in the gun. Once the
bullets are removed, the firearm must be locked in the
trunk or locked in a secure container.
Click to expand...
So if you shoot your carry gun at the range, make sure that you have at least one round left when you go home! [rofl]
 
Pilgrim said:
About what? Having a copy with me?

Yeah, I have a copy of it in my wallet. Doesn't take much room. It just came in handy to quote the law to you guys, so I guess it was worth having there. [grin]
Click to expand...

I have a copy of it in my purse, Pilgrim, so you're not alone. Ever since I read that, I carry in the post office. The one I go to doesn't even have the "no guns" law posted anywhere that I've seen either, so...

Just because I go to the post office, that doesn't mean that some whacko won't come in there and start shooting or slashing. The statute says I can carry because I'm lawfully licenced for ALP. But, that's me...and Pilgrim. You folks need to do what you feel is right.
 
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The only problem with the post office is that the official poster they have omits the exemption for hunting and other lawful purposes. As a result, most people (including police, postal officials, and even a lot of lawyers who haven't looked at the entire statute) have the mistaken idea that it's illegal. (It says so right there on the poster!) Thus you're likely to get in a bunch of shit if they discover you're carrying.

Hello?! You'll probably get in a lot of shit if the police discover that you're carrying most anywhere. Even after it's all sorted out and you're not charged with anything, there's always the specter of "suitable person" looming over you. So who cares? I certainly don't; I carry in to post office all the time. It's not like my old office on a college campus, where I took of my coat and spent the whole day there. All I ever do at the post office is empty out my box, mail stuff, and occassionally buy some more stamps or pick up something certified or registered. It's just one more good reason for concealed carry.

Ken
 
Here's a different spin on the same topic:

When going to the range for instance, where I might have multiple guns in my vehicle (in addition to CCW), and they are all in locked cases (factory pistol cases with cable locks, plastic or metal rifle cases with key/cable locks and the like). I drive an SUV that has no actual "trunk", so I place the guns in the rear compartment the obviously has a locking tailgate and a privacy shield, but is accessible from the main cabin of the vehicle. The law stated locked container, and these containers are in fact locked. My question is: if someone broke into my car while I was running into a store for ammo or something else, the criminals could easily determine that the cases were for firearms and take them, as the would be locked but not locked TO the vehicle. I'm all for compliance, but would this insulate me legally? I have also read the "law" many many times, and could find nothing about having to have the firearm(s) secured TO the actual vehicle. Also would an unlocked case, with a compliant trigger/action lock be just as "legal" for unattended storage? I always use a case lock, but I'd like to know.

Thanks all!
 
Now look at this example. To meet the letter of the law, one will put the guns (firearms) into a locked container. Put the locked container in the back of the SUV. So far, so good, right? Law met? Now what happens when the SUV has no roof or windows or doors? (Picture a Jeep).

That said, one time I was at my "club" to do some shooting. Did my target shooting, and had a check with the renewal form to renew my membership. I wasn't about to do the above, so I put one in my holster (police style) and the other Mexican style in back of pants. I went in to the "clubhouse" (lounge area) to leave my renewal and check. I was waiting like 5 minutes for the bartender/("club official") to come over and take my paperwork and check. While waiting, at least 2 maybe 3 different people came up to me saying I can't have firearms in the clubhouse ... at my "shooting" club! I said I have a Jeep, what should I do? They said, leave them with the bartender. I said, sure I could do that, but I'm not staying. They asked why I was there and I said I'm waiting for the f'ing bartender so I can renew my membership!

Arrrrrrgh!

The only other "club" in town is worse, and the membership is limited with a LONG waiting list.
 

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