Unattended storage in auto

[Executive]

I know that in Mass. it is permissible to store an unloaded firearm in a securely locked container inside an automobile. Does a locked glove box qualify as a securely locked container? What other alternatives allow for storage in a car or truck?

Chris

 

[Scrivener]

I know that in Mass. it is permissible to store an unloaded firearm in a securely locked container inside an automobile. Does a locked glove box qualify as a securely locked container?
Chris

NO!

Per MGL c. 140, s. 131C:

(b) No person carrying a firearm under a Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of $500.

(c) No person possessing a large capacity rifle or shotgun under a Class A or Class B license issued under section 131 or 131F shall possess the same in a vehicle unless such weapon is unloaded and contained within the locked trunk of such vehicle or in a locked case or other secure container. Whoever violates the provisions of this subsection shall be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $5,000.

That the statute expressly refers to a specific section of the automobile in which a firearm may legally be stored in transport is clear evidence of its intent. Had the legislature had intended a mere glovebox to suffice, it would have said so.

It didn't. Use "a locked case or other secure container" or put the gun in the trunk - and lock the car!

 

[tele_mark]

I just bought the following for storing my Airweight when I'm at work:

http://www.center-of-mass.com/

this is the medium one, P99 for scale. The cable goes around the driver's seat mount:

 

[Executive]

That the statute expressly refers to a specific section of the automobile in which a firearm may legally be stored in transport is clear evidence of its intent. Had the legislature had intended a mere glovebox to suffice, it would have said so.

I understand the logic of your interpretation here but I disagree. Specification of a particular section of a vehicle in the MGL does not, in my opinion, clearly exclude other similarly secure sections of said vehicle. I suggest that the locked glove box is superior to the trunk in that access requires two security devices be breached (door lock and glove box lock) rather than the one security lock of the trunk. One could also argue that the locked glove box is in fact a "locked case or other secure container".

For the record, I consider it a questionable and risky practice to leave a firearm in a vehicle. I was interested in this topic for the occassional situation that may require temporary very short term storage. Picking up children at school would be one example, parking off school grounds, of course.

Thank you for your input, Scrivener, and though I disagree, you may in fact be correct in this case. I plan to do some additional research.

Chris

 

[Lugnut]

I may be wrong but regardless of whether you're in the car or not, I don't think it's legal in MA to put your gun a glovebox.

 

[Cross-X]

I gotta weigh in on Scrivener's side on this one, but for a different reason. I have seen too many LTC-holding clients prosecuted for leaving an unloaded firearm in a locked glovebox.

I have never had a licensed client prosecuted for leaving an unloaded firearm in a locked trunk.

Do whatever you wish, but, for me and my clients who listen, I advise using a storage method other than a glove box or center console.

Darius

 

[Executive]

I drive a pickup truck so the trunk is not an option. What exactly are the charges when a client is prosecuted for leaving an unloaded firearm in the glove box or center console?

What about the reinforced and armored center console inserts I have seen advertised? How would this stack up?

Chris

 

[K-DUB]

Chris, I also have a bunch of the center of mass mini safes. I mounted a few in my vehicles. I also have a couple in case I use a different vehicle, and they come with a cable to lock them to the car. I find that in pickups, you can usually mount them underneath the rear seat, or behind/underneath passenger seat if a regular cab. My boyfriends new GMC pickup came with a hidden locking storage box built in, which is great for storing tools/firearms. I know it is a pain in the (_X_), but don't leave it in the glovie.

 

[drgrant]

I second the reccomendation of those boxes... they look like they
would be compliant. Additionally, at least to steal whatver is inside
in an expedient manner, someone would have to cut the cable.

What I do (for cars) is lock the pistol in a locked case, then I use a thick
cable with a combination padlock to attach the case to the frame of the
vehicle in the trunk, though its handle. (theres some holes punched where
he "rear deck" is in many cars, you can thread the cable through there). Might
seem paranoid but at least if the gun was ever stolen, it at least makes it look like
you made an effort to secure it.

Cross-X/Scrivener: Offhand, out of curiousity, is there a large number of cases that come to you guys
as an indirect result of someone trying to report one of their guns stolen? And in those cases, does there
appear to be any correlation between how gun friendly the issuing authority is and how the person gets treated?
Of course in some cases, this data might be hard to track... because if the PD doesnt want to make a big stink
about it, then nobody will ever end up calling you, which is a good thing, but it doesnt give a lot of feedback
to LE reaction about this issue, which seems gray and murky at best. I've only ever heard horror stories,
never anything good... and wasnt sure if thats representative of reality or otherwise. (I generally
work from the assumption that if you lose a gun in this state, you have a 50/50 chance of losing your LTC....
depending on circumstances, etc...)

Of course, in free states none of this seems to be an issue... having a gun stolen is treated no differently than
any other property theft.... in MA its a murky issue at best, and at worst, one loses their ownership rights!

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

. . .

 

[Executive]

OK! OK! The glove box is a bad idea. Even though I have yet to see definitive proof, I will accept the collective opinion of the esteemed contributors to this thread as fact. I'm not crazy about a locked container secured by a cable either, so where can I store my unloaded firearm in my pickup truck for ten minutes when I have to go into a school? It's starting to look like I'm going to have to leave it home...

Chris

 

[Lugnut]

OK! OK! The glove box is a bad idea. Even though I have yet to see definitive proof, I will accept the collective opinion of the esteemed contributors to this thread as fact. I'm not crazy about a locked container secured by a cable either, so where can I store my unloaded firearm in my pickup truck for ten minutes when I have to go into a school? It's starting to look like I'm going to have to leave it home...

Chris

I do a lot of stuff with the kids at school, etc. and with all the places you can't go with a CCW it's a PITA. The other day I was looking for a baseball field to play some ball... my son and his friend couldn't understand why I kept driving by fields next to schools!! Don't make a mistake of getting stamps at a post office while carrying....

Courthouses
Correctional Facilities
Virtually all Federal Buildings
Virtually all Police Departments
Any School or College Grounds (unless written permission of the dean or security chief has been obtained)

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Virtually all Police Departments

Please provide a statuatory cite in MGL for this one.

 

[Lugnut]

Please provide a statuatory cite in MGL for this one.

Sorry- that was a cut and paste from packing.org. Here is more from that site as well:

Admin note
There is no statue banning carry in police departments. Some may have rules against it enforced through other statutes, but if you carry in a PD and there is no notification I don't think there is anything they can charge you with.

http://www.packing.org/state/massachusetts/#stateoff_limits

 

[Len-2A Training]

. . .

 

[Lugnut]

LenS- Thanks for this info- my first post was not to derail or get into the specifics of where CCW is allowed- just the fact that you need to be aware of where you can and can't. I posted exactly where this specific wording came from in my last post... I should have included it initially.

 

[Cross-X]

I drive a pickup truck so the trunk is not an option. What exactly are the charges when a client is prosecuted for leaving an unloaded firearm in the glove box or center console?

Improper firearms storage.

What about the reinforced and armored center console inserts I have seen advertised? How would this stack up?

Chris

Sure, a vault is a real good idea, especially if it is not in plain view.

 

[Len-2A Training]

. . .

 

[Lugnut]

OK, but I'm still curious where you got the part about not in police stations?

LenS- it was a cut an paste from packing.org, believe me I couldn't make up this stuff if I wanted. There is an "admin note" that confirms at least some of what you say. I realize that packing.org is not the official MA law website but I've been told by many that it's a good site.

http://www.packing.org/state/massachusetts/
section 3G (places off limits while carrying)

 

[Len-2A Training]

Thanks for the info. I do NOT use packing.org EXCEPT to find URL to state-run sites for this exact reason. I have found a LOT of mis-information there, and no I have made no attempt to correct them (too many more important things for me to do).

I always caution folks that the accuracy of that site is questionable at best, but state-specific links are very valuable time-savers.

 

[joe6486]

I was interested in this topic for the occassional situation that may require temporary very short term storage. Picking up children at school would be one example, parking off school grounds, of course.

If I remember correctly, the law states that having a gun "on your person" is prohibited from school grounds. I'm pretty sure that having a gun in your trunk (or even locked glove box) is legal as long as you aren't exiting the car.

 

[JonJ]

If I remember correctly, the law states that having a gun "on your person" is prohibited from school grounds. I'm pretty sure that having a gun in your trunk (or even locked glove box) is legal as long as you aren't exiting the car.

You do not want to test that. Believe me.

 

[Skald]

Chris, maybe look into a lockable toolbox in the bed. Its the type that bolts into the bed etc, its what I use when going to the range.

 

[Coyote33]

Tuffy Security Products secure storage - Jeep, Bronco, Hummer truck, SUV, 4x4, auto, recreational vehicles

 

[Executive]

I have a really nice Weather-Guard lockable tool box behind the cab of my truck. I just feel better keeping my "equipment" inside rather than out back.

Chris

 

[Scrivener]

I have a really nice Weather-Guard lockable tool box behind the cab of my truck. I just feel better keeping my "equipment" inside rather than out back.

Then install a lockable box INSIDE the cab. Crisis resolved.......

 

[rscalzo]

WE investigated several vehicle breakins a day where I worked. In almost every case, the console and glove box were opened. They are far from secure. I'm happy that mine stays closed. If I'm not in the car, the firearm isn't either except at the gun club which is secure.

 

[Coyote33]

Did you see those "Tuffy" replacement glove boxes?

 

[rscalzo]

Tuffy

I just looked at the Tuffy but they have nothing for my vehicle. Seems like they cater to CJ's mainly. My Explorer has no where secure except maybe under the front seat but unbolting it would be a real pain for me to install.

 

[Coyote33]

Maybe one of the center consoles could work.

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