Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead

[42!]

For me, a lot of the speculation doesn't matter;
Person shot robbed a house, doesn't matter, the shooters didn't personally see it and it wasn't their house.
Person shot attacked/fought with the shooter, doesn't matter. The shooters got their guns, got into their truck, and chased the victim. Everything after that was a direct result of that action, and it was that action that should never have happened.
It's that chasing him down with guns that I have a big problem with, why would a non-cop do this when they had't even seen a crime first hand?

 

[Drix]

Person shot attacked/fought with the shooter, doesn't matter. The shooters got their guns, got into their truck, and chased the victim.

To illustrate that point- What would anyone on NES do if they were being chased by two dudes in a truck with guns?
These guys are going to get indicted for murder.

 

[Mountain]

According to the DA there's footage of the guy committing the robberies, and footage of the two in the truck being attacked by the guy.

Just like every lynching I ever heard of - "We yelled at the criminal, he attacked us, and wound up being accidentally hung by the rope he tried to grab out of our hands"

If you were out running let's say through Framingham and a couple of Brazilian gang-looking guys in an old SUV cut you off with their vehicle and threatened you with a shotgun, what would you do? Not enough evidence in this case to really say what the hell was going on, and the so-called perp is dead so there's only one story. Clear evidence on tape would settle the conjecture from any direction.

I think a few years ago there was a thread very much like this one, and it turned into a big sh!t show on the forum. Of course for us that could be any given day, LOL.

 

[42!]

To illustrate that point- What would anyone on NES do if they were being chased by two dudes in a truck with guns?
These guys are going to prison for murder.

Well I wouldn't be fighting for their gun

 

[Mountain]

Well I wouldn't be fighting for their gun

So you must fall into the 50% of us that wouldn't use some sort of martial arts move to disarm then escape via tactical roll?

 

[Christian]

Grab your .357 and a shotgun then pursue?

Bad shoot or not? Even if the runner was a dirtbag, what happened to trial by jury? Reads like a lynching, though more expedient. But hey, sounds ethnic so must be guilty.

Spoiler

 

[Frizzle Fry]

Not enough evidence in this case to really say what the hell was going on, and the so-called perp is dead so there's only one story. Clear evidence on tape would settle the conjecture from any direction.

Did you read the statement from the DA? Or the post that you quoted? There's footage of him committing the B&E and there's footage of him attacking the two men.

 

[Mountain]

Did you read the statement from the DA? Or the post that you quoted? There's footage of him committing the B&E and there's footage of him attacking the two men.

Read the statement, video did not come through.

If clear that he was attacking, then he was asking for it. I'd have to see it.

 

[67ray]

Read the statement, video did not come through.

If clear that he was attacking, then he was asking for it. I'd have to see it.

Or was he defending himself? Unsuccessfully.

Two guys with guns run him down in a pickup and then accost him as he is jogging . . . were they looking for a fight?

And BTW the DA recused himself so his opinion is not legally worth anything.

 

[Mountain]

Read the statement, video did not come through.

If clear that he was attacking, then he was asking for it. I'd have to see it.

Didn't see a video anywhere, and NFW am I signing up for the NYT if that's where it is. No I'm not clearing my browser for that either.

Based on reading multiple articles, including a local one, I'd at LEAST place the blame at 50/50. The supposed B&E was a house under construction? Raise your hand if you have never checked out a house under construction. Sure maybe he was looking for tools but if in the usual shorts where would he have hid them from the obviously nosy neighbors who were watching that BLACK kid. Seems that there are those of you who are automatically picking sides with a retired cop, LOL, who was the 'witness' to the attack on his adult son who was wielding a shotgun when confronting the kid. Hey, that's some solid evidence there- must be true because ex cop.

Kid might have been a rotten apple but by what logic was it OK to run him down, confront him, and when a fracas ensues shoot and kill him? At least dumbass Zimzam was getting his ass beat by Martin. I am a big supporter of castle doctrine, but down the street is not one's castle and there was no crime committed against once-a-cop-always-a-cop. Perhaps the kid was guilty of not submitting to his athoritah?

Bad things happen when dipsh!ts collide- that's the only clear conclusion I'll make.

 

[teamRR]

If you attempt to citizen arrest me someone is getting hurt - could be me. What a ridiculous law.

I get it if you were witness to a serious crime the person committed. Picking up a shotgun and chasing a suspect due to 2nd hand information on short notice, no.

What if the kid was innocent and he killed the person chasing him, that legal? What if he was guilty - is protecting himself from a non authority a crime? How would he know thier likely intentions?

 

[42!]

Did you read the statement from the DA? Or the post that you quoted? There's footage of him committing the B&E and there's footage of him attacking the two men.

If such a video exists, it does not matter. The killers did not see it. Their pursuet was based on a description, according to them. They didn't personally witness anything.
As for the victim attacking them. Two guys with guns chased him and confronted him, anything he did at that point was a reaction to their provocation.

If you attack a "bad guy", no threat, no ongoing situation, you don't get a pass. And if he defends himself it's justified.
You can use force in self defence. You cannot create a confrontation and then claim self defence.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

If such a video exists, it does not matter. The killers did not see it. Their pursuet was based on a description, according to them. They didn't personally witness anything.

According to the DA, they in fact DID see footage of him. They had also spotted the guy the day before and called the police, because there had been several B&Es, not just at the abandoned house. A link to this was all posted above.

As for the victim attacking them. Two guys with guns chased him and confronted him, anything he did at that point was a reaction to their provocation.

If you attack a "bad guy", no threat, no ongoing situation, you don't get a pass. And if he defends himself it's justified.
You can use force in self defence. You cannot create a confrontation and then claim self defence.

Not according to Georgia law which allows for armed citizens arrest. He was fleeing the scene of a crime... If I yell at a shoplifter in my store, he beats my face in, and I wind up shooting him, in your eyes that'd be a bad shoot?

 

[teamRR]

If I yell at a shoplifter in my store, he beats my face in, and I wind up shooting him, in your eyes that'd be a bad shoot?

I'd say that is a obviously a good shoot, but if you grab a gun and chase them down, corner someone over a candy bar, and they end up dead, thats bullshit in my opinion.

We can find horror stories but typically a cop isn't going to come gun drawn over unarmed petty crime. If need be they will use non lethal brute force, tazers, mace - certainly not grabbing a shotgun to chase a person who is fleeing arrest for non violent crime.

 

[42!]

According to the DA, they in fact DID see footage of him. They had also spotted the guy the day before and called the police, because there had been several B&Es, not just at the abandoned house. A link to this was all posted above.

I went through the thread again, there is one Article linked, I read the complete article, and it does not say that. It does say
“The law does not allow a group of people to form an armed posse and chase down an unarmed person who they believe might have possibly been the perpetrator of a past crime,”

Not according to Georgia law which allows for armed citizens arrest. He was fleeing the scene of a crime...

Again, “The law does not allow a group of people to form an armed posse and chase down an unarmed person who they believe might have possibly been the perpetrator of a past crime,”

If I yell at a shoplifter in my store, he beats my face in, and I wind up shooting him, in your eyes that'd be a bad shoot?

Don't be ridiculous. Totally different situation. Caught in the act, on your property, stealing your property. I'll assume you meant to include that you tried to restrain him, and then he beat you face in. The timelyness of the situation, and the personal involvement in the crime, i.e. your place and property, make the overal situation different.

 

[Reptile]

I went through the thread again, there is one Article linked, I read the complete article, and it does not say that. It does say
“The law does not allow a group of people to form an armed posse and chase down an unarmed person who they believe might have possibly been the perpetrator of a past crime,”

Again, “The law does not allow a group of people to form an armed posse and chase down an unarmed person who they believe might have possibly been the perpetrator of a past crime,”

Don't be ridiculous. Totally different situation. Caught in the act, on your property, stealing your property. I'll assume you meant to include that you tried to restrain him, and then he beat you face in. The timelyness of the situation, and the personal involvement in the crime, i.e. your place and property, make the overal situation different.

A group of people have the right to question a suspicious person in the neighborhood or street.

At the mall or anywhere else, I can go up to a person and question them. Even if I am armed.

I can't harass somebody, violate anybody's rights or detain somebody.

I can go up to a person who I think has drugs on them and ask them to empty their pockets.

I have the right to question a business owner in his own store if he has committed fraud that day. However, if he tells me to leave I must abide or else he can issue a trespass order.

Asking a suspicious stranger who they are or what they are doing is not a crime.

What happened after that is what is in question.

 

[Sprocket]

So murder is ok if you're from the right neighborhood? Not sure what the real message is here...

 

[Frizzle Fry]

I went through the thread again, there is one Article linked, I read the complete article, and it does not say that. It does say
“The law does not allow a group of people to form an armed posse and chase down an unarmed person who they believe might have possibly been the perpetrator of a past crime,”

Again, “The law does not allow a group of people to form an armed posse and chase down an unarmed person who they believe might have possibly been the perpetrator of a past crime,”

Don't be ridiculous. Totally different situation. Caught in the act, on your property, stealing your property. I'll assume you meant to include that you tried to restrain him, and then he beat you face in. The timelyness of the situation, and the personal involvement in the crime, i.e. your place and property, make the overal situation different.

McMichael's - the retired police officer and son.


Barnhill - the District Attorney


You're quoting a racebaiting lawyer, unrelated to the case, armchair quarterbacking - the law DOES allow for armed people to make a citizens arrest. "Armed Posse" is hyberbolic nonsense.

"O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."

The two men both witnessed a crime. They then witnessed footage of a crime. They then were told of yet another crime and witnessed the perpetrator fleeing. The offense was a felony, the offender was attempting to escape. 'Nuff said.

This isn't Soviet Russia; everything which is not forbidden is allowed. If the law allows you to openly carry a firearm, and the law allows you to make a private arrest, the law allows you to carry a firearm WHILE making a private arrest, unless specifically stated otherwise. You might not like places where people are able to defend themselves, their homes or their neighborhoods - that's fine. Stay in New England with a boot on your neck, assuming everything is racist... That makes YOU a racist, by the way. There's no indication of race being a factor here, whatsoever. Just your supposition. And the usual people beating the drum in the media and activist community. Maybe the police in your neighborhood have a good response time; lucky you. Here they were too late the first time, and the second time.

 

[42!]

A group of people have the right to question a suspicious person in the neighborhood or street.

At the mall or anywhere else, I can go up to a person and question them. Even if I am armed.

I can't harass somebody, violate anybody's rights or detain somebody.

I can go up to a person who I think has drugs on them and ask them to empty their pockets.

I have the right to question a business owner in his own store if he has committed fraud that day. However, if he tells me to leave I must abide or else he can issue a trespass order.

Asking a suspicious stranger who they are or what they are doing is not a crime.

What happened after that is what is in question.

You're right, anyone can ask anyone anything, and that person can just keep on walking.
But that's not what happened. They got their guns and chased him down. Chasing someone and approaching them with a weapon displayed is an assault in any state.

And the chasing him down was not a single stream of events from seeing him commit a crime. They did not see him commit a crime and follow him from that point. They believed he had committed a property crime, not against themselves, at some earlier point in time, and decided to play cop.

 

[42!]

McMichael's - the retired police officer and son.
View attachment 352979

Barnhill - the District Attorney
View attachment 352980

You're quoting a racebaiting lawyer, unrelated to the case, armchair quarterbacking - the law DOES allow for armed people to make a citizens arrest. "Armed Posse" is hyberbolic nonsense.

"O.C.G.A. 17-4-60 (2010)
17-4-60. Grounds for arrest
A private person may arrest an offender if the offense is committed in his presence or within his immediate knowledge. If the offense is a felony and the offender is escaping or attempting to escape, a private person may arrest him upon reasonable and probable grounds of suspicion."

The two men both witnessed a crime. They then witnessed footage of a crime. They then were told of yet another crime and witnessed the perpetrator fleeing. The offense was a felony, the offender was attempting to escape. 'Nuff said.

This isn't Soviet Russia; everything which is not forbidden is allowed. If the law allows you to openly carry a firearm, and the law allows you to make a private arrest, the law allows you to carry a firearm WHILE making a private arrest, unless specifically stated otherwise. You might not like places where people are able to defend themselves, their homes or their neighborhoods - that's fine. Stay in New England with a boot on your neck, assuming everything is racist... That makes YOU a racist, by the way. There's no indication of race being a factor here, whatsoever. Just your supposition. And the usual people beating the drum in the media and activist community. Maybe the police in your neighborhood have a good response time; lucky you. Here they were too late the first time, and the second time.

Don't be calling me a racist. I never mentioned it once. YOU DID. By your own definition that makes you the racist.

 

[babygorilla]

Chasing someone and approaching them with a weapon displayed is an assault in any state.

 

[Frizzle Fry]

You're right, anyone can ask anyone anything, and that person can just keep on walking.
But that's not what happened. They got their guns and chased him down. Chasing someone and approaching them with a weapon displayed is an assault in any state.

And the chasing him down was not a single stream of events from seeing him commit a crime. They did not see him commit a crime and follow him from that point. They believed he had committed a property crime, not against themselves, at some earlier point in time, and decided to play cop.

Not according to Georgia law. And they did witness a crime. Oh and one was a cop. And approaching someone with a weapon displayed is not "assault in any state".

Be wrong, more.

 

[Dadstoys]

You're right, anyone can ask anyone anything, and that person can just keep on walking.
But that's not what happened. They got their guns and chased him down. Chasing someone and approaching them with a weapon displayed is an assault in any state.

And the chasing him down was not a single stream of events from seeing him commit a crime. They did not see him commit a crime and follow him from that point. They believed he had committed a property crime, not against themselves, at some earlier point in time, and decided to play cop.

People "Played Cop" for thousands of years before there were actual cops.
Don't steal shit and bad things won't happen to you .
Seems like a reasonable premise .

 

[42!]

People "Played Cop" for thousands of years before there were actual cops.
Don't steal shit and bad things won't happen to you .
Seems like a reasonable premise .

What happened to innocent until proven guilty. Remember he wasn't even followed, or observed non-stop, or even observed in person (a surveillance vid, we know how great those are), by his pursuers.

 

[Dadstoys]

What happened to innocent until proven guilty. Remember he wasn't even followed, or observed non-stop, or even observed in person (a surveillance vid, we know how great those are), by his pursuers.

That would have applied right up to the point where he attacked the two men .
Now it's self defense.
That's why he got shot.
You are trying to mix up the fact he got shot for assault not the B&E.

I grew up in small towns and still live in one.
You look after your friends and neighbors .
We leave the call the cops and cower in place stuff for the city folks.

We had an incident a couple of years ago where some whack job claiming to be from the census (They weren't as it turns out) was trying demand entry into my neighbors house.
There was three of us neighbors over there in seconds.
Thankfully they realized they were a heartbeat from a class A ass whipping if they didn't back off and split.
When the cops got there five minutes later we gave them a plate number and description.
Turns out they were from somewhere south of Boston, so I was told by the Sargent.
What their game was is anybody's guess .
If you don't think five minutes is a long time , shut your finger in a car door and tell me how long five seconds can be.
You take care of your neighbors and neighborhood and hopefully when the time comes , the same is done for you.

Unless of course you believe the government is the answer for all life's problems, in which case good luck.

 

[42!]

That would have applied right up to the point where he attacked the two men .
Now it's self defense.
That's why he got shot.
You are trying to mix up the fact he got shot for assault not the B&E.

Talk about mixing up the facts. Turn it around and consider this:
You are out for a jog.
Two men in a truck start chasing you.
They get out and approach you aggressively openly brandishing a shotgun.
Would you consider this a threat? An assault? A threat to your life? Faced with that threat to your life, do you stand there and let then execute you or do you take some action, even if it's unlikely to succeed?

Is it different when it you? Do you believe you are allowed to react but others are not?

 

[Dadstoys]

Talk about mixing up the facts. Turn it around and consider this:
You are out for a jog.
Two men in a truck start chasing you.
They get out and approach you aggressively openly brandishing a shotgun.
Would you consider this a threat? An assault? A threat to your life? Faced with that threat to your life, do you stand there and let then execute you or do you take some action, even if it's unlikely to succeed?

Is it different when it you? Do you believe you are allowed to react but others are not?

So he was in fact just out for a jog ?
Why does your information not match up with everyone else's ?
He wasn't just out for a jog , he was doing house breaks. He's on video in fact doing just that.
Why are you sticking to a totally false narrative of the situation ?
The guy was a shitbag doing shitbag stuff.
He just picked the wrong neighborhood to do it in.

 

[42!]

So he was in fact just out for a jog ?
Why does your information not match up with everyone else's ?
He wasn't just out for a jog , he was doing house breaks. He's on video in fact doing just that.
Why are you sticking to a totally false narrative of the situation ?
The guy was a shitbag doing shitbag stuff.
He just picked the wrong neighborhood to do it in.

No video released and the statements are inconclusive. Essentially "he fits a description". Why no video?
What's really funny, in a hypocritical way, If the story was that a man fitting the description of a burglary suspect was later confronted by police and killed in a struggle, and the cops told the same story, you'd be all about how it was a bad shoot and overzealous cops.

 

[Dadstoys]

No video released and the statements are inconclusive. Essentially "he fits a description". Why no video?
What's really funny, in a hypocritical way, If the story was that a man fitting the description of a burglary suspect was later confronted by police and killed in a struggle, and the cops told the same story, you'd be all about how it was a bad shoot and overzealous cops.

I get what your working towards .
Minority male killed by drooling redneck , racist KKK members because he was out for an evening stroll probably delivering bibles to the underprivileged .
If that's the story you want to create in your head for yourself, have at it.
The facts as presented so far don't resemble that fairy tale in any way , shape or form.

 

[42!]

I get what your working towards .
Minority male killed by drooling redneck , racist KKK members because he was out for an evening stroll probably delivering bibles to the underprivileged .
If that's the story you want to create in your head for yourself, have at it.
The facts as presented so far don't resemble that fairy tale in any way , shape or form.

Why are you bringing up race when I never do? According to Frizzle that makes you a racist.