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Please,every gun owner read this post!!
- Thread starter darkstorm
- Start date
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
My guess is that after reading that first thread, he got so mad that he forgot about grammar, punctuation, etc, in his desire to put his side of the story before us. Quite understandable.
Or perhaps that's how he types. *shrug* I have many friends who are quite literate but do not express themselves well via email.
Of course, MY first reaction was that given that this happened in SHREWSBURY where the chief of police take out his personal grudge against citizens by denying LTCs (anybody remember the name Ragsdale? No charges ever filed? No LTC granted, either.
![[frown]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/003.gif "Frown [frown]")
), I tend to believe the citizen before the chief.Thank you for posting that - an excellent thing to remind people of.
Makes me want to install an intercom to ask that question with the door closed...
![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
After reading the thread about the guy in Maryland I was imagining what I'd do if a poorly marked commando team showed up at my front door...
I couldn't come up with a response that ended well...
I wonder too... I wonder what-the-F people are thinking sometimes.
Here's some poor guy that had his door kicked in by the Gestapo, his guns stolen, his character questioned, his permit yanked, and his finances drained because a vindictive ex decided to screw with him.
After a time, he finds out about NortheastShooters (probably from either Jon Green or that lawyer in Framingham), comes here, does a search, and finds an old thread where a bunch of Internet "experts" were talking shit about him based on an article in the local press. (Which is always 100% accurate, right?).
He comes here and makes his first post. First post. For all we know, it was his first post on any Internet forum ever. And this first post came after reading a thread where people talked shit about him.
And what happens?
A couple of more "experts" critique his writing style!! One even goes so far as to offer a bipolar diagnosis, and another accuses him of being off his meds!
Christ, sometimes you people make us look like a**h***s. Thanks for pissing me off first thing in the morning.
We have over 7000 members here, only about 1/10th of which are/were active (>100 posts). I wonder how many of the other 6,000 left after their first post wasn't up to the experts' standards. Keep up the good work guys.
As for youposters, it was funny the first time, and gets a little less so every time it's posted.
Sorry for the hijack Robert. Good luck getting your permit back. PM me if there's anything I can do to help.
%100 +1
I wish people were little more respectful to the others behind their keyboards. Sir I wish you the best of luck and If somebody comes up with a fund for your legal defense I will contribute the first $100.
Of course, MY first reaction was that given that this happened in SHREWSBURY where the chief of police take out his personal grudge against citizens by denying LTCs (anybody remember the name Ragsdale? No charges ever filed? No LTC granted, either.
+3!
The 2nd doesn't say you have the right to bear arms if and only if you are a good writer on an internet forum. ![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
Some people here need to get a grip... grammar nazis should only be present in English classes.
Some people here need to get a grip... grammar nazis should only be present in English classes.
The 2nd doesn't say you have the right to bear arms if and only if you are a good writer on an internet forum.
All right, all right -- the guy APOLOGIZED!
- Joined
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I'd be willing to contribute as well to a defense fund.
I read his apology after I had posted. It takes a man (or woman) to accept his fault. Well done.
![[grin]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/041.gif "Grin [grin]")
![[cheers]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/018.gif "Cheers [cheers]")
I look forward to seeing more information on this matter, including civil filings.
As I said a while back in the original thread, the core issue is the public expectation of government protection. Most people would be appalled if the police ignored a call to check on a suicidal person. I say most people. I would be fine with it, and would in fact prefer it, for two reasons. First and foremost, people should be free to manage their lives and property, and if someone wants to end their life, that is their choice. Second, the general public expectation that government (almost always via the police) stands to protect people, even from themselves, is impossible to fulfill without substantial interference in private lives by the state. This results in awful outcomes as illustrated in this thread.
To be fair to the police, I have no idea whether the more egregious claims against them are true here. If they are, heads should roll. But in truth, I can't see why anyone would want to be a cop. The public's expectations create a job where success is all but impossible. If you asked me to bust into the house of an armed suicidal guy and I had no choice but to do the job or quit, I would probably quit. That leaves the folks who do the job, and I can imagine they would want to go in forcefully. The same goes for serving warrants, enforcing drug laws, trolling for drunk drivers, and all of the other intrusive, needless, and dangerous work that police are asked to do. The outcome is awful. Many law abiding people (like myself) end up viewing police as the part of the problem. Underlying this problem, however, as in all problems with intrusive government, is the public's childish demands to be protected from the perils of freedom and the danger inherent to living in a world with more than a few sharp edges. Until the general population grows up and accepts some responsibility for their own lives, we will see more threads like this.
As I said a while back in the original thread, the core issue is the public expectation of government protection. Most people would be appalled if the police ignored a call to check on a suicidal person. I say most people. I would be fine with it, and would in fact prefer it, for two reasons. First and foremost, people should be free to manage their lives and property, and if someone wants to end their life, that is their choice. Second, the general public expectation that government (almost always via the police) stands to protect people, even from themselves, is impossible to fulfill without substantial interference in private lives by the state. This results in awful outcomes as illustrated in this thread.
To be fair to the police, I have no idea whether the more egregious claims against them are true here. If they are, heads should roll. But in truth, I can't see why anyone would want to be a cop. The public's expectations create a job where success is all but impossible. If you asked me to bust into the house of an armed suicidal guy and I had no choice but to do the job or quit, I would probably quit. That leaves the folks who do the job, and I can imagine they would want to go in forcefully. The same goes for serving warrants, enforcing drug laws, trolling for drunk drivers, and all of the other intrusive, needless, and dangerous work that police are asked to do. The outcome is awful. Many law abiding people (like myself) end up viewing police as the part of the problem. Underlying this problem, however, as in all problems with intrusive government, is the public's childish demands to be protected from the perils of freedom and the danger inherent to living in a world with more than a few sharp edges. Until the general population grows up and accepts some responsibility for their own lives, we will see more threads like this.
I wonder too... I wonder what-the-F people are thinking sometimes.
Here's some poor guy that had his door kicked in by the Gestapo, his guns stolen, his character questioned, his permit yanked, and his finances drained because a vindictive ex decided to screw with him.
After a time, he finds out about NortheastShooters (probably from either Jon Green or that lawyer in Framingham), comes here, does a search, and finds an old thread where a bunch of Internet "experts" were talking shit about him based on an article in the local press. (Which is always 100% accurate, right?).
He comes here and makes his first post. First post. For all we know, it was his first post on any Internet forum ever. And this first post came after reading a thread where people talked shit about him.
And what happens?
A couple of more "experts" critique his writing style!! One even goes so far as to offer a bipolar diagnosis, and another accuses him of being off his meds!
Christ, sometimes you people make us look like a**h***s. Thanks for pissing me off first thing in the morning.
We have over 7000 members here, only about 1/10th of which are/were active (>100 posts). I wonder how many of the other 6,000 left after their first post wasn't up to the experts' standards. Keep up the good work guys.
As for you
Sorry for the hijack Robert. Good luck getting your permit back. PM me if there's anything I can do to help.
+1 - enough with the ridiculous grammar indictments already. This is a gun lover forum, not a forum to discuss the proper form and style of the Queen's English.
As Eddie points out, if the police treated ANY of those critquing this poor guy the same way they would probably be a little "emotional" about it to say the least.
Hang in there man and I hope this works out. You should definitely get in touch with GOAL and other gun resource groups for assistance here.
From someone that does the job, that was a very good post.
On the topic of the OP, I haven't seen him even so much as hint at blame for the original precipitator of the situation. Why all the blame for this on the police? They didn't go there cause they wanted to, they went there because they were called to. This girlfriend is the cause. Her alligations were the means to this end. She should be the one answering the "why" questions, not the officers doing their job. Give the man back his LTC and get the woman in front of a judge or a magistrate explaining the details of why she did what she did that got this ball rolling in the first place. I see this sort of thing from the inside out all the time, and truth be told, I often time see the party that's in the wrong is always the quickest to blame the police and make accusations and excuses rather then offer facts and reasons.
Wouldnt getting your civil liberties and personal property swiftly ripped away from you for no justifiable reason be cause for some type of mania?
Very good point. My lawyer at the time told me I made a huge mistake. I opened the door and stepped onto my porch. At that point,they owned me. Rushed upon by four officers with weapons drawn yelling,screaming,throwing me over the hood of my car,searching my house,making me stand in a bath robe,in the snow,barefoot. They would not even allow me to stand on my porch. There was no warrant,I never saw a police station. God forbid they let me call my lawyer. You may ask why I did open my door and comply. It's very simple. I knew I didn't do anything wrong and had nothing to hide. I id myself,gave them my address,thinking they had the wrong home.The former Chief,Chief Sampson met w/myslef and my lawyer. He sent me a letter which states he has "no legal Basis for with holding my Class A except for the fact I "saw" a shrink. I saw 3 but would not have if they didn't drag me to them. Based on that he stated that is reason for denial. Does not every leo see a shrink after a shooting or for a routinue "check-up" if you will? Nice double standard.
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It's understandable. I was raised to respect the law. My natural reaction is that I've done nothing wrong, I'm a law abiding citizen, so they're on my side. The reality is, they aren't.
I wonder too... I wonder what-the-F people are thinking sometimes.
Here's some poor guy that had his door kicked in by the Gestapo, his guns stolen, his character questioned, his permit yanked, and his finances drained because a vindictive ex decided to screw with him.
After a time, he finds out about NortheastShooters (probably from either Jon Green or that lawyer in Framingham), comes here, does a search, and finds an old thread where a bunch of Internet "experts" were talking shit about him based on an article in the local press. (Which is always 100% accurate, right?).
He comes here and makes his first post. First post. For all we know, it was his first post on any Internet forum ever. And this first post came after reading a thread where people talked shit about him.
And what happens?
A couple of more "experts" critique his writing style!! One even goes so far as to offer a bipolar diagnosis, and another accuses him of being off his meds!
Christ, sometimes you people make us look like a**h***s. Thanks for pissing me off first thing in the morning.
We have over 7000 members here, only about 1/10th of which are/were active (>100 posts). I wonder how many of the other 6,000 left after their first post wasn't up to the experts' standards. Keep up the good work guys.
As for you
Sorry for the hijack Robert. Good luck getting your permit back. PM me if there's anything I can do to help.
+1
Perfectly framed my own sentements about what I read as well. Don't ever give the gun owner the benefit of the doubt when authority is involved because after all they are never wrong and always err on the side of the lawful citizen. What's that saying! "Innocent until proven guilty" and that goes beyond bullshit reporting.[sad2]
By the way Good Luck with the battle and I am in for any fund as well.
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Robert, I'm sorry that you've been caught up in such a dilemma. You've found yourself in the trap of "suitability". It looks like this guy:
Did you no good and his statement may be what the chiefs were hanging their hat on.
With 351 cities and towns in this great state, we have the potential for 351 different definitions. You could find yourself the resident of another town a mile away and not have problem.
The firearm laws must be changed in this state because they are so unfair and although I do not totally agree with this statement in your case:
Did you no good and his statement may be what the chiefs were hanging their hat on.
With 351 cities and towns in this great state, we have the potential for 351 different definitions. You could find yourself the resident of another town a mile away and not have problem.
The firearm laws must be changed in this state because they are so unfair and although I do not totally agree with this statement in your case:
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How many times have I heard these words, or something similar, from people here who seem to think they can never fall into a Kafkaesque hell because they lock their defense gun up at night, and schmooze with the local Sherriff's Association?
First, I want to add my thanks for, and appreciation of, Eddie Coyle's excellent and much needed splash of cold water on the face earlier in this thread.
Egregiously poor grammar is a peeve of mine and a lack of paragraph breaks drives me absolutely nits. But in a matter as important and as compelling as this I'm willing to cut and paste the post into a Word document and add my own damned paragraph breaks to make sure I get the essence of it.
Second, if ever there was a circumstance in Massachusetts that warranted a legal defense fund, this is it. Some of you may remember the Linda Hamilton case in North Adams back around 2000. A good woman got railroaded by incompetent police, venal prosecutors, and a contemptible judge. And then there was the ... FBI agent, and I'll withold editorializing because he's a friend of mine. But he f'ed up big time.
Few came out to aid Linda Hamilton in her struggle. I think that GOAL posted notices and asked for donations, but little was forthcoming. Linda committed suicide a while back.
This kind of injustice can happen to any one of us, any day of the week. Now, in Obamatime, things are only going to get worse for us. The moonbats are emboldened and will soon, I half-expect, start calling in suspicious-man reports, fabricating threats, and generally harassing anyone seen with a gun or a gun case, anyone shooting on their property, anyone who writes a pro-RKBA letter-to-the-editor ...
Sound far-fetched? Remember what "progressive activists" did to the supporters of Prop. 8 in California, once they got a list of donors. Remember what some Soros-funded loons did in Connecticut, conducting bus tours of the homes of AIG executives ... putting families in fear after Congress threated to release the names of bonus recipients in the face of ugly death threats. This behavior is straight out of the "Rules For Radicals" playbook.
Will GOAL look into establishing a fund to bring this matter into court? Are there any lawyers willing to work pro-bono? Is there a legal precedent that can be obtained out of it all? If so, a national organization might take a look at defending this case.
We can't count on the ACLU on this one.
The OP has not only been deprived of his Constitutional liberty, he's been humiliated and defamed. Isn't it time to rise up?
Dressed to Kill
NES Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2008
- Messages
- 6,031
- Likes
- 36,727
I wonder too... I wonder what-the-F people are thinking sometimes.
Here's some poor guy that had his door kicked in by the Gestapo, his guns stolen, his character questioned, his permit yanked, and his finances drained because a vindictive ex decided to screw with him.
After a time, he finds out about NortheastShooters (probably from either Jon Green or that lawyer in Framingham), comes here, does a search, and finds an old thread where a bunch of Internet "experts" were talking shit about him based on an article in the local press. (Which is always 100% accurate, right?).
He comes here and makes his first post. First post. For all we know, it was his first post on any Internet forum ever. And this first post came after reading a thread where people talked shit about him.
And what happens?
A couple of more "experts" critique his writing style!! One even goes so far as to offer a bipolar diagnosis, and another accuses him of being off his meds!
Christ, sometimes you people make us look like a**h***s. Thanks for pissing me off first thing in the morning.
We have over 7000 members here, only about 1/10th of which are/were active (>100 posts). I wonder how many of the other 6,000 left after their first post wasn't up to the experts' standards. Keep up the good work guys.
As for you
Sorry for the hijack Robert. Good luck getting your permit back. PM me if there's anything I can do to help.
Great post.
dwarven1
Lonely Mountain Arms
Thank you for making this so clear. Should I ever find my PD on my doorstep, I will be certain that I stay INSIDE and will NOT invite them in... I may look rude, but at 0-dark-thirty in the morning, I'd doubt that they were there for a social call.
Wow... talk about cross-quoting. That was in another thread entirely, and I really don't want to be seen as being THAT cold to THIS poster!
Why not? Does it piss you off? If so, good. Do something about it.
Gentleman;
All your offers to help me mount a legal defence fund is wonderfull! However,,I could never take money from anyone for my own problems. The offers however mean more to me than you can imagine!!! I will find away to fight this. What is so foreign to me is the Shrewsbury police have backed me into a corner to the point I now have to sue them. That was never my intent. This matter could have put to rest for the price of a stamp. I just wanted them to apoligze and my Class A given back to me. My friend who is a lawyer told me if they sent me a letter saying they where wrong,it's as good as an addmission of guilt. So instead they call me a liar.I'm not a "sue you" type of person.This has been a nightmare. I asked the police why this woman,who signed two statments says she lied,plus and e-mail stating she was just"pissed off" and didn't think it would go this far. Shrewsbury poice have all of this on file.I will try to post my copy of the civil complaint to Chief Hester,the town manger,as well as the board of selectman.Again,thank-you all for your offers of support!!
Civil Complaint
To: Chief James Hester, Chief of police, Town of Shrewsbury, Massachusetts
From Robert J. Vezina
P.O box 203 Shrewsbury, Mass. 01545
RE: Incident at my home on 11/26/2004, Incident report # 200400023910
71 Lebeaux Drive. Shrewsbury, Mass. 01545
The following complaint is as follows:
1) The illegal search and seizure of my firearms.
2) The illegal search of my home without a search warrant.
3) Police brutality.
4) Cruel and abusive treatment.
5) Denied access to legal counsel after being read Miranda rights.
6) Threatened with violence by Shrewsbury police.
7) On going harassment by Shrewsbury police.
8) Stolen property while Shrewsbury police where in my home, without my presence and without a warrant of any kind.
9) Illegally detained.
10) Destruction of private property.
11) Incurring medical bills from U. Mass Mental Health which I was assured by Shrewsbury police after being threatened if I did not agree to visit UMMH, Shrewsbury police could have me confined for up to 7 days. To date these bills are outstanding and have effected my credit rating.
12) Loss of income due to the nature of the allegations among my clients.
Chief Hester: As you are aware the suspension under M. G. L. of a class A pistol permit which I have held without incident since1984 is reason for any local licensing authority to deny said application. As my permit has been suspended in Shrewsbury, I would be denied said permit anywhere in the state .Furthermore according to the indecent report # 200400023910,the reason for coming to my home was “A well being check”. A well being check according to friends who are police officers as well being defined by the town of Shrewsbury is to check on the welfare of a citizen. This does not include multiple officers, with weapons drawn, threatening a citizen along with the above mentioned allegations! It is apparent that the measure of justice in Shrewsbury has a direct link to the size of your bank account as is evident in the shooting of a police officer by Mr. Mark Ragsdale. I assure you I will see this matter thru to the bitter end. All I ask is 2 things. First: A letter of apology.
Second. My pistol permit re-instated which in turn I will transfer to Worcester. As we spoke of at our last meeting I am not seeking monetary damages as of this date. If you feel the need to spend the tax payers money on a case you have no defense too, I welcome the opportunity to face the Shrewsbury police in a court of law. I suggest you speak with Kevin Byrne. However, please be assured James I have contacted several lawyers who feel confident enough in my case to deal with this matter on a contingency basis. I hope we can come to an equitable resolution without bringing this matter into the public eye and causing your officers, yourself and the town undo shame. Please understand Mr. Hester, this letter is not meant as a threat of any kind, but rather the measure of my resolve. However, the abusive tactics Shrewsbury police have been afforded for many years will be brought to light. I also have several documents in my possession as well as e-mails from former Chief Sampson which will prove most embarrassing to the town with respect to this matter. I await your response.
Respectfully submitted,
Robert Vezina,
2/05/2009
CC: Chairman, Board of selectman.
CC: Town Manager
All your offers to help me mount a legal defence fund is wonderfull! However,,I could never take money from anyone for my own problems. The offers however mean more to me than you can imagine!!! I will find away to fight this. What is so foreign to me is the Shrewsbury police have backed me into a corner to the point I now have to sue them. That was never my intent. This matter could have put to rest for the price of a stamp. I just wanted them to apoligze and my Class A given back to me. My friend who is a lawyer told me if they sent me a letter saying they where wrong,it's as good as an addmission of guilt. So instead they call me a liar.I'm not a "sue you" type of person.This has been a nightmare. I asked the police why this woman,who signed two statments says she lied,plus and e-mail stating she was just"pissed off" and didn't think it would go this far. Shrewsbury poice have all of this on file.I will try to post my copy of the civil complaint to Chief Hester,the town manger,as well as the board of selectman.Again,thank-you all for your offers of support!!
Civil Complaint
To: Chief James Hester, Chief of police, Town of Shrewsbury, Massachusetts
From Robert J. Vezina
P.O box 203 Shrewsbury, Mass. 01545
RE: Incident at my home on 11/26/2004, Incident report # 200400023910
71 Lebeaux Drive. Shrewsbury, Mass. 01545
The following complaint is as follows:
1) The illegal search and seizure of my firearms.
2) The illegal search of my home without a search warrant.
3) Police brutality.
4) Cruel and abusive treatment.
5) Denied access to legal counsel after being read Miranda rights.
6) Threatened with violence by Shrewsbury police.
7) On going harassment by Shrewsbury police.
8) Stolen property while Shrewsbury police where in my home, without my presence and without a warrant of any kind.
9) Illegally detained.
10) Destruction of private property.
11) Incurring medical bills from U. Mass Mental Health which I was assured by Shrewsbury police after being threatened if I did not agree to visit UMMH, Shrewsbury police could have me confined for up to 7 days. To date these bills are outstanding and have effected my credit rating.
12) Loss of income due to the nature of the allegations among my clients.
Chief Hester: As you are aware the suspension under M. G. L. of a class A pistol permit which I have held without incident since1984 is reason for any local licensing authority to deny said application. As my permit has been suspended in Shrewsbury, I would be denied said permit anywhere in the state .Furthermore according to the indecent report # 200400023910,the reason for coming to my home was “A well being check”. A well being check according to friends who are police officers as well being defined by the town of Shrewsbury is to check on the welfare of a citizen. This does not include multiple officers, with weapons drawn, threatening a citizen along with the above mentioned allegations! It is apparent that the measure of justice in Shrewsbury has a direct link to the size of your bank account as is evident in the shooting of a police officer by Mr. Mark Ragsdale. I assure you I will see this matter thru to the bitter end. All I ask is 2 things. First: A letter of apology.
Second. My pistol permit re-instated which in turn I will transfer to Worcester. As we spoke of at our last meeting I am not seeking monetary damages as of this date. If you feel the need to spend the tax payers money on a case you have no defense too, I welcome the opportunity to face the Shrewsbury police in a court of law. I suggest you speak with Kevin Byrne. However, please be assured James I have contacted several lawyers who feel confident enough in my case to deal with this matter on a contingency basis. I hope we can come to an equitable resolution without bringing this matter into the public eye and causing your officers, yourself and the town undo shame. Please understand Mr. Hester, this letter is not meant as a threat of any kind, but rather the measure of my resolve. However, the abusive tactics Shrewsbury police have been afforded for many years will be brought to light. I also have several documents in my possession as well as e-mails from former Chief Sampson which will prove most embarrassing to the town with respect to this matter. I await your response.
Respectfully submitted,
Robert Vezina,
2/05/2009
CC: Chairman, Board of selectman.
CC: Town Manager
Robert, you need a lawyer to advance this case. I hope that this might be seen as a challenge to discretionary licensing statewide, but ... I am not a lawyer.
You need help, and I hope you get it.
You need help, and I hope you get it.
Turbocharged
NES Member
This is a really horrible situation to be in. I'm not very good at sounding good on the internet, so I really can not describe how shocking and unjust I find this whole event.
I can't believe, that even after the main evidence that the police acted on was shown to be null and void, they STILL will not undo the harm that was done, even though it is within their power.
Robert, as many others said, I hope that you get this worked out. I suggest you figure out what you want to do at this point and let us know, and I am sure that the people here can give you some good advice.
As for the grammer/format of Roberts posts, I don't think it really maters. What message does everyone think it sends when someone comes to this forum, wether they're in a tough spot or not, and their first post is met with criticism of the way they type?
Although, it could have been worse on that acount; Scrivener could show up and tear someone a new one.![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
[EDIT]: huh, I see now that Scriv will not be able to join us.
I can't believe, that even after the main evidence that the police acted on was shown to be null and void, they STILL will not undo the harm that was done, even though it is within their power.
Robert, as many others said, I hope that you get this worked out. I suggest you figure out what you want to do at this point and let us know, and I am sure that the people here can give you some good advice.
As for the grammer/format of Roberts posts, I don't think it really maters. What message does everyone think it sends when someone comes to this forum, wether they're in a tough spot or not, and their first post is met with criticism of the way they type?
Although, it could have been worse on that acount; Scrivener could show up and tear someone a new one.
[EDIT]: huh, I see now that Scriv will not be able to join us.
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