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New Keltec KSG 12 Gauge bullpup pump gun (14+1)
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dcmdon
NES Member
psst. this ejects down from the botom of the stock. i.e. ambidextrous.
and their .308 rifle pushes the shells out the front.
I'm a lefty, I notice this stuff.
dcmdon
NES Member
Hell, the Kushnapup project had an idea:
I can't believe there hasn't been one reputable company to come up with this mod for Saiga 12s. Is it because the JBTs would be kicking in the door as the design went to production?!
MD Arms has been doing something like that for a couple of years.
Here's a modded Saiga with a 20 round drum:
Much handier than the standard hi cap mags for the saiga. Here's the same gun with a 10 or 12 rd stick mag:
Kushnapup was talking about making the bullpup conversion for the Saiga, not the drum mag.
dcmdon
NES Member
ahh. Its funny, the saiga seems to be developing along 2 lines
1) guys who use it in 3 gun competition. magwells, left side bolt handles, cools stuff.
2) then there are the guys who are more "tacticool", like the pics I posted. They just want as many rounds as possible.
1) guys who use it in 3 gun competition. magwells, left side bolt handles, cools stuff.
2) then there are the guys who are more "tacticool", like the pics I posted. They just want as many rounds as possible.
dcmdon
NES Member
the poster was sks ray. the kushnap was the gun.
It looks like we'll get to see what is going to happen. Check this out: http://www.kushnapup.com/
It's been "Real soon now" for a pretty long time. Kushnapup (the company) has been talking, but aftermarket Saiga products have a history of being vaporware, so they're going to have a hard time getting enough pre-orders to bankroll production.
I'm assuming that when Ray said
He was referring to the bullpup mod, not the drum.
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beaker
NES Member
Lol. They should call it the BFG, now that would be awesome. I just got to look at the pics on a PC screen vs the phone. Looks much better than I could tell on the droid screen. Can't wait to see some firsthand info.
I think it looks kind of like a mini, upside down BFG9000, so I think I need one.
OfficerObie59
NES Member
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This thing seems cool, but like someone else mentioned, that's a big boom going off under your cheek.
That's a problem because if the gun doesn't fall into the "shotgun" category, it get's lumped in under the catch-all group of "firearm", which by and large usually refers to pistols.
Now I could be mistaken on this, but I'm pretty sure that being placed in the "firearms" category allows EOPSS and the AG to have final word on the sale just as they would any other pistol that they deem not "MA Compliant". So therein lies the problem...Queen Marsha ain't approvinng this thing if her life depended on it...
Perhaps I'm missing the point, but it seems to me the problem has nothing to do with the bbl length or capacity, but the overall length of the gun itself:
MGL 140/121
That's a problem because if the gun doesn't fall into the "shotgun" category, it get's lumped in under the catch-all group of "firearm", which by and large usually refers to pistols.
Now I could be mistaken on this, but I'm pretty sure that being placed in the "firearms" category allows EOPSS and the AG to have final word on the sale just as they would any other pistol that they deem not "MA Compliant". So therein lies the problem...Queen Marsha ain't approvinng this thing if her life depended on it...
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OfficerObie59
NES Member
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Ah, well, then...disregard last. I suppose proper reading comprehension in the OP would have saved me some time...
It won't, because if it was a "firearm" in MA it would also be a federal SBS, and that, it is not. With the feds this is intended as a Title I shotgun. Which means that in MA, it's legally no different than a typical Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 series pump gun that has a barrel set at the legal minimum length to not be an SBS.
-Mike
Twigg
NES Member
Oh good grief.
![[rolleyes]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/042.gif "Roll Eyes [rolleyes]")
The Bennelli Super Nova's just came in and that buy closed in August. ![[thinking]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/010.gif "Thinking [thinking]")
Oh well, if we get the payment thread going I suppose we can get them in by Thanksgiving !
Let's do one for the free state folks either way way.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
ChevyGuy91
NES Member
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Send the barrel to Briley, choke problem solved.
![[smile]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/001.gif "Smile [smile]")
Kel Tec makes some neat stuff and they do have some very innovative designs, but lets face it, they fall a little flat in the quality category.
While this new shotgun design looks like it'd be great to have, I'll wait and see how they perform after people have run several hundred rounds through them. Unless of course they come out and are in danger of being banned, then I'll have to buy one just because.
While this new shotgun design looks like it'd be great to have, I'll wait and see how they perform after people have run several hundred rounds through them. Unless of course they come out and are in danger of being banned, then I'll have to buy one just because.
Hell, the Kushnapup project had an idea:
I can't believe there hasn't been one reputable company to come up with this mod for Saiga 12s. Is it because the JBTs would be kicking in the door as the design went to production?!
Holy crap, I just checked out their website. http://www.kushnapup.com/ I want one.
Apparently they've been "just about to be released" for some time now.
Doesn't make me not want one, though.
dcmdon
NES Member
The RFB, an already released product, has raised the bar for them. I've fondled it but not shot it. It feels nice. Definitely a cut above they typical P3AT. Its also been getting rave reviews.
This is more along those lines than a typical cheapie.,
Don
p.s. but then again, the p3AT was special when it came out. It was the size of a seecamp 32 and 30% lighter. It wasn't made nearly as well, but it worked fine. . . or it didn't . If it didn't , Kel tec made it right with their ultimate customer service. So even their cheap stuff is a great value.
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Many companies start off the way Kel-Tec has - making cheaper products and then moving upstream. The RFB - from everything I have read - is reasonably reliable. As a .308 bullpup though - I don't think it has quite the "draw" that this bullpup shotgun has. I can see this shotgun having massive interest from civilian shooters, home defense'rs, the LEO market, maybe even military.
If they start getting that kind of interest - especially LEO and military - then they will HAVE TO up their quality. If they want to grow the company they will have to deal with all the issues of growing in size - and upping their quality. If they don't - they may crash and burn. If you like working at an entepreneurial Co. - Kel-Tec would probably be a great place to be working going forward.
If they start getting that kind of interest - especially LEO and military - then they will HAVE TO up their quality. If they want to grow the company they will have to deal with all the issues of growing in size - and upping their quality. If they don't - they may crash and burn. If you like working at an entepreneurial Co. - Kel-Tec would probably be a great place to be working going forward.
dcmdon
NES Member
A couple of thoughts on KelTec the company and the quality of their stuff.
They've always been fairly innovative. The stuff they bring to market at the pricepoint they sell it at is pretty forward thinking.
They have made all their firearms on 100% CNC machinery since the company began. Thats part of how they keep the prices low.
They use concurrent engineering practices so that the producability of a product is part of the design criteria.
I also remember reading a quote from one of the founders that said something to the effect of "of course we could make more finely finished products, but thats not the market we choose to be it"
Which leads to "how do you define quality".
Is it fine finish machining, or is it purely function?
I would bet that they could get their functional reliability up to military standards by simply improving their QA and QC and making some minor material improvements in certain areas.
I have a cheapie Sub 2000 in 9mm. I use it as a backup to a semi-auto mp5 when I do little local pistol caliber carbine matches.
Here's the crazy part, its more reliable than the MP5 and its more accurate. But some stuff is clearly compromised to meet a price point.
The gun retails for about $280. If instead they charged the princely sum of $350, you could eliminate all of its weaknesses. It would be an interesting approach.
Don
They've always been fairly innovative. The stuff they bring to market at the pricepoint they sell it at is pretty forward thinking.
They have made all their firearms on 100% CNC machinery since the company began. Thats part of how they keep the prices low.
They use concurrent engineering practices so that the producability of a product is part of the design criteria.
I also remember reading a quote from one of the founders that said something to the effect of "of course we could make more finely finished products, but thats not the market we choose to be it"
Which leads to "how do you define quality".
Is it fine finish machining, or is it purely function?
I would bet that they could get their functional reliability up to military standards by simply improving their QA and QC and making some minor material improvements in certain areas.
I have a cheapie Sub 2000 in 9mm. I use it as a backup to a semi-auto mp5 when I do little local pistol caliber carbine matches.
Here's the crazy part, its more reliable than the MP5 and its more accurate. But some stuff is clearly compromised to meet a price point.
The gun retails for about $280. If instead they charged the princely sum of $350, you could eliminate all of its weaknesses. It would be an interesting approach.
Don
