Channel 5 News - Boston - Pepper Spray

[dwarven1]

Enhance, Enhance, Enhance

Yeah. "Can you blow up that blur? I need to see a bigger blur!"

Sure that may be true in some cases, but that trend is changing VERY quickly! There is scarcely a minute in your day that you are NOT on camera somewhere when you are outside of your home.

I have to wonder where that statistic comes from and how accurate it is.

Yeah, I'm not paying to join an organization to be surprised when they do something....

I don't see them becoming ultra-effective even if they had every firearm owner in MA on their donor list, so I don't join.

Thank you; if they're not "ultra-effective", you are one of the reasons why.

 

[PaulD]

Yeah, I'm not paying to join an organization to be surprised when they do something....

I don't see them becoming ultra-effective even if they had every firearm owner in MA on their donor list, so I don't join.

*sigh*

It's $30. You can't spare that?

I've said this repeatedly on here. GOAL is a lobbying organization. They live and die by their membership numbers. By your logic, they'll never build the necessary critical mass.

GOAL is far from perfect but we need a state level organization like it and building a new one is a sh!tload more effort than changing GOAL into what we want. Also, Comm2A isn't the same thing, so don't bother mentioning it. We need both.

 

[pastera]

THE FIVE PEOPLE THAT MAKE UP GOAL NEED TO BE ALL OVER THIS! WHY AREN'T THEY STORMING THE NEWS STATIONS WITH GUNS AND DEMANDING THEY BE PUT ON THE AIR!




>.>

The real question is what are YOU doing? Don't abdicate your responsibility to some group, that is how we got into this position in the first place.

August 2nd is the next public hearing and I am looking for several others to testify as a group. Doesn't matter what you want to testify about in particular as long as it is clear, concise and not a lunatic rant.

If we can manage a group of three or four people from each of the surrounding districts it would be extremely powerful. Each person in a group should spend three to four minutes on one subject having coordinated the subject before hand. It would be even more powerful if the coordination happened across multiple groups.

Subjects:
1 - suitability and discretion: LTC holders live in fear that they will do something legal but unwanted by their COP and have their guns confiscated. It is also used to deny the right to carry as blanket policy in some towns.

2 - EOPS and AG list: LEOs are exempt creating a separate class of civilians who can buy what is legally designated as an unsafe firearm. Contrary to the regulations these firearms are sold across the nation and show no evidence of being unsafe. These regulations only exist to make firearms ownership difficult and expensive, especially for the lower income citizens who could use protection in the home the most.

3 - Cosmetic feature bans and magazine limits: In the two decades since the federal assault weapons ban there has been no proof that the ban had any positive effect. Crime has been trending downward at the same rate before during and after the ban, an indication attributable to the gentrification of the population more than any other factor.

Take those ideas, write a double spaced page for your speech by doing a little research with a second page citing all your facts. That will give you three minutes if you take a few pauses to let your points sink in. Don't write well, neither do I. Post your speech or PM it to one of the resident grammar Nazi's for review.

Now for my rant - I am not pointing at anyone in particular but all of us as a whole

It's not GOAL's job to go to the public hearings. Their time is better spent in the back rooms where they have the access that we don't. And to tell the truth, they have no power at all! We give them power by being active and vocal.

Don't like what I am saying - IDGAF; I am tired of little whiny boys in men's bodies crying about things that they can fix, if they only acted like they had a set and got things done.

Right now I am finishing up a book, STEPPING UP: A Call to Courageous Manhood; It hits all the points of why we are ineffective and any one of us would be better off to have read it.

 

[pastera]

15,000-20,000 members paying 5 people to do their work for them?

That's all GOAL is? Just 5 people? Lol guys... No wonder your gun laws suck. 5 folks against an army of anti-gun bureaucrats can only do so much. Even with 20,000 cheerleaders behind them.

.

+1 - remember most of those 20k are disinterested armchair quarterbacks that are pissed if things doing go their way but won't do a damn thing other than write a SMALL check once a year.

 

[Gillham]

I can't find the video. I saw it on TV though. Basically a woman was talking w/ the reporter about applying for a permit, and was shocked to find out the first open appointment is like Aug 20th or something. She said it was unacceptable. Then the reporter followed up later, saying we spoke to BPD and the reason it's taking so long, is that because so many people are applying. That was the end of that. Snoozefest.

 

[BostonVI]

Ask not what GOAL can do for you. Ask what you can do for GOAL! I won't dare criticize them until I get up off my ass and at least make it to a few of their events.

 

[taz-2005]

Ask not what GOAL can do for you. Ask what you can do for GOAL! I won't dare criticize them until I get up off my ass and at least make it to a few of their events.

As a member it is ok to criticize; whether its your political party, government, NRA, church whatever. My Issue with GOAL is their record of success; They have not had anything meaningful passed in 7 years. Yeah maybe they have stopped things or we have have with our calls or emails; but to me the status quo is not acceptable.

The real change in this state will only come when voters stop voting for one party control and real candidates come forward.

 

[Riverside]

They never showed the report. Maybe they will save it for another time.

It was more important for Channel 5 to show a news clip of a NH father and son who were attacked by someone with Mace. They are getting on the "let's not act too quickly on making Mace readily available for Self Defense" Band Wagon. "See what can happen? NH has no laws regulating Mace. We're safer in Massachusetts because we have stricter laws."
That Band Wagon.
Best regards.

 

[cekim]

As a member it is ok to criticize; whether its your political party, government, NRA, church whatever. My Issue with GOAL is their record of success; They have not had anything meaningful passed in 7 years. Yeah maybe they have stopped things or we have have with our calls or emails; but to me the status quo is not acceptable.

The real change in this state will only come when voters stop voting for one party control and real candidates come forward.

Sadly, having watched what has been going on in the past 7 years at the statehouse, not having passed the river of garbage they have been trying to pass is success. Had CT not happened, this year would have likely seen more measurable progress.

As you say though, this state needs both to change the people we elect as well lose so,e big cases in the federal courts.

GOAL has been very active and successful both in stopping bad legislation and in educating the legislators (you would not believe the level of ignorance on Bacon Hill). It has been many decades to get this bad. The turnaround has begun, but nothing will be fast and we cannot wait for anyone else to do it. We also cannot stop when we "win" because another CT will just start the madness all over unless people finally realize that such things have nothing to do with the laws they write or the people thse laws hurt (us).

 

[Riverside]

As a member it is ok to criticize; whether its your political party, government, NRA, church whatever. My Issue with GOAL is their record of success; They have not had anything meaningful passed in 7 years. Yeah maybe they have stopped things or we have have with our calls or emails; but to me the status quo is not acceptable.

The real change in this state will only come when voters stop voting for one party control and real candidates come forward.

GOAL stopping things, such as more prohibitive laws, is not Status Quo.

Best regards.

 

[TOM1960]

Just saw a promo for the Channel 5 news in Boston. Tonight at 11 PM, they are going to do a story on how tough it is to get pepper spray in this state and the long times you have to wait for a permit. It should be interesting to see what they say.

I know a lot of women, including my girlfriend, who carry pepper spray. No wait, no permit. They voted with their feet. Quick trip over the border to NH, pay cash (added bonus: no 6.25% sales tax!), put pepper spray in pocket or purse, done! Very simple!

 

[taz-2005]

When Reps like Nick Collins and Sen Linda Docena Forry's big idea on safety is an ATM security bill that has been stalled since the 90's I think we are all in trouble.

In wake of Amy Lord killing, push for increased ATM safety - Metro - The Boston Globe

 

[garandman]

Yeah, I'm not paying to join an organization to be surprised when they do something....

I don't see them becoming ultra-effective even if they had every firearm owner in MA on their donor list, so I don't join.

great excuse! Congratulations, very inventive.

So what do you expect them to do for $30 per year? You spend more than that mowing your lawn.

Standing on the sidelines doesn't seem. Like the correct answer.

 

[TOM1960]

Never mind GOAL, where's O- Bama on this one?

Unlike the rest of us peasants, Obama has the palace guard (aka Secret Service agents) to protect his home and family.

 

[TOM1960]

Since the bill does NOT amend C. 269 S. 10, where it calls out the illegality of weapons being carried on school property, a judge/AG will rule that since it is not specifically allowed that it is illegal (that's their rationale from the AG wrt handling a machine gun even with supervision of a licensee). 269-10 needs to be amended too to clearly state that carrying OC on school property IS ALLOWED! Otherwise the majority who might carry OC and most benefit from that won't be able to legally.

Well, Len, at this stage of the game, a lot of women are simply going do what they have to do to protect their lives and not give two sh*ts whether it is legal or illegal under this stupid state's laws. I can only speak for myself, but I would much rather be a live defendant or felon than a dead victim. My girlfriend's youngest son is a felon (illegal possession of prescription pills at age 18). His felon status has not affected his lifestyle at all. He graduated from college and got a himself a really good job. There are so many felons out there these days, because of ill-conceived laws, it is incredible. Doesn't take much to become one and the stigma does not seem to be what it once was. I am old enough to remember when divorce was a real stigma. Now it isn't . Times and attitudes are changing.

 

[TOM1960]

The real question is what are YOU doing? Don't abdicate your responsibility to some group, that is how we got into this position in the first place.

August 2nd is the next public hearing and I am looking for several others to testify as a group. Doesn't matter what you want to testify about in particular as long as it is clear, concise and not a lunatic rant.

If we can manage a group of three or four people from each of the surrounding districts it would be extremely powerful. Each person in a group should spend three to four minutes on one subject having coordinated the subject before hand. It would be even more powerful if the coordination happened across multiple groups.

Subjects:
1 - suitability and discretion: LTC holders live in fear that they will do something legal but unwanted by their COP and have their guns confiscated. It is also used to deny the right to carry as blanket policy in some towns.

2 - EOPS and AG list: LEOs are exempt creating a separate class of civilians who can buy what is legally designated as an unsafe firearm. Contrary to the regulations these firearms are sold across the nation and show no evidence of being unsafe. These regulations only exist to make firearms ownership difficult and expensive, especially for the lower income citizens who could use protection in the home the most.

3 - Cosmetic feature bans and magazine limits: In the two decades since the federal assault weapons ban there has been no proof that the ban had any positive effect. Crime has been trending downward at the same rate before during and after the ban, an indication attributable to the gentrification of the population more than any other factor.

Take those ideas, write a double spaced page for your speech by doing a little research with a second page citing all your facts. That will give you three minutes if you take a few pauses to let your points sink in. Don't write well, neither do I. Post your speech or PM it to one of the resident grammar Nazi's for review.

Now for my rant - I am not pointing at anyone in particular but all of us as a whole

LTC holders living in fear of their local police chiefs. Yes, that is the number one reason why I stayed with the "shall issue" FID. Did not want or need the hassle of living in fear of some politically-motivated chief's personal feelings about the private ownership of guns and who he/she thinks is fit to own them.

 

[Palladin]

GOAL has been very active and successful both in stopping bad legislation and in educating the legislators (you would not believe the level of ignorance on Bacon Hill). It has been many decades to get this bad. The turnaround has begun, but nothing will be fast and we cannot wait for anyone else to do it. We also cannot stop when we "win" because another CT will just start the madness all over unless people finally realize that such things have nothing to do with the laws they write or the people thse laws hurt (us).

Mike captured this in a nutshell. Every gunowner in MA needs to be in Goal, they are the only representation you have in the Commiewealth, like it or not. And if you're not a member, you have no right to bitch because you're part of the problem, not the solution. The membership is approximately 17,000; if we had 50,000 you'd bet your ass the legislature would start listening more.

Standing on the sidelines doesn't cut it, if you own a gun, by default you're in the fight.

 

[Billsail]

GOAL stopping things, such as more prohibitive laws, is not Status Quo.

Best regards.

Is this not the definition of "Status Quo" ??

 

[taz-2005]

Is this not the definition of "Status Quo" ??

Maybe it means something different in Massachusetts.

sta·tus quo
ˈstātəs ˈkwōˈstatəs
noun
1.
the existing state of affairs, esp. regarding social or political issues.

 

[PaulD]

Mike captured this in a nutshell. Every gunowner in MA needs to be in Goal, they are the only representation you have in the Commiewealth, like it or not. And if you're not a member, you have no right to bitch because you're part of the problem, not the solution. The membership is approximately 17,000; if we had 50,000 you'd bet your ass the legislature would start listening more.

Standing on the sidelines doesn't cut it, if you own a gun, by default you're in the fight.

So how do we get membership higher? I've tried by asking gun shops to hand out flyers but as far as I can tell (and I don't have data here) it went nowhere.

 

[Billsail]

So how do we get membership higher? I've tried by asking gun shops to hand out flyers but as far as I can tell (and I don't have data here) it went nowhere.

I wonder if general advertising would succeed in any way. I know, probably won't be able to find a budget for that.

 

[Dadstoys]

Assume Davis goes along with the Mayor's wishes.

Don't assume he like it.

I think it's fair to assume he got the job in the first place because he'll do and say as he's told.
If you recall after Newtown, He was at the podum reading his mumbles/ devalue script about how Ma. has a huge problem with internet firearms sales and people going up to NH. and Me., loading up car trunks with firearms and handing them out on the streets of Boston.
He's just another useless hack.
After what's come out about the murder of that young woman this week, it's clear that the BPD needs an emema , starting with him.

 

[Dadstoys]

This story I assume is in response to all the assaults on women in the South End of late--including the murder of that one poor young woman--and I saw they were handing out...whistles.

Yeah, that will stop a murderous rapist. A friggin' whistle.

Sure, those are the magic blue one's.
You blow it and the police appear like the state farm agent in the commercial.
We are so very screwed [sad2]

 

[Coyote33]

What ever happened to women's "take back the night" demonstrations?

What happened to all the women on NES? I know we used to have a lot. It seems like I only know of "minininjer" on here now. What happened to the lady trucker, Mrs. Zhomb, Lynne D., and all the others? Maybe they need their own sub-forum, just to stay in touch.

Look who is supporting the bill: https://malegislature.gov/Bills/188/House/H2145

Petitioners: Kimberly N. Ferguson, Bradley H. Jones, Danielle W. Gregoire, Carlos Henriquez, Steven S. Howitt, Marc T. Lombardo, Anne M. Gobi, Angelo L. D'Emilia, Sheila C. Harrington, Tom Sannicandro, Matthew A. Beaton, Randy Hunt, Christine E. Canavan, Todd M. Smola, F. J. Barrows, Peter J. Durant, Martha M. Walz, George N. Peterson, Keiko M. Orrall, Walter F. Timilty, Daniel B. Winslow, Ryan C. Fattman, Thomas J. Calter, Bruce E. Tarr, Kevin J. Kuros, David T. Vieira

I've been pushing this to the following since the gun hearings in 2010:

Kimberly N. Ferguson, Peter J. Durant, George N. Peterson, Walter F. Timilty, Ryan C. Fattman, David T. Vieira (The ones in RED are on the Public Safety Committee.)

I am surprised Michael Moore, vice-chair of Public Safety and Homeland Security is not on this list. I will have to follow up with him, and my local rep, Paul Frost!

I wonder if general advertising would succeed in any way. I know, probably won't be able to find a budget for that.

I've said it before, and will again. GOAL needs to hire a professional fundraiser, so they can stop crying poor.

 

[TLB]

they just did a report on channel 5 about a guy and his son getting sprayed with pepper spray in Manchester N.H.. I guess just a reminder to the MA sheep how dangerous it is.

**** Channel 5

 

[Riverside]

Is this not the definition of "Status Quo" ??

My interpretation of Status Quo means leaving things as they are. What I see is lots of pushing back and maneuvering to get things off the table.
I don't see GOAL as going along with the Status Quo.
That's my take on it.
Best regards.

 

[Coyote33]

I think it's fair to assume he got the job in the first place because he'll do and say as he's told.
If you recall after Newtown, He was at the podum reading his mumbles/ devalue script about how Ma. has a huge problem with internet firearms sales and people going up to NH. and Me., loading up car trunks with firearms and handing them out on the streets of Boston.
He's just another useless hack.
After what's come out about the murder of that young woman this week, it's clear that the BPD needs an emema , starting with him.

Yeah, but during the 2010 hearing, I got him to publicly admit that it is not the vast majority of gun owners who are the problem, and they are chasing the wrong people. He did say this, on the record. I wish there were video footage.

 

[cekim]

I wonder if general advertising would succeed in any way. I know, probably won't be able to find a budget for that.

Perhaps someday, but only with a much larger membership. Right now it is more efficient to educate both the general public through GOAL's many training programs and the legislature who have to confront with the knee-jerk squeaky-wheel public with, as I mentioned, an astonishing degree of ignorance on the realities of firearms, self-defense, crime, etc...

There are a few bad eggs who know better and push snake oil anyway like Linksy and Deval, but then there are the rest.

The immediate result of GOAL's long efforts here were seen when MA did not go the way of MD, CT, CO, and NY and pass ridiculous legislation in the middle of the night despite all the same protests we had, if not more in some cases.

Bloomberg, Rosenthal and the usual gun-grabbers we absolutely hard at work along with a number of "moms against reason" groups that popped up to "react" to Sandy Hook, yet our outcome is not the same.

Everyone wants to throw up a billboard or run TV ads which usually won't hurt, but they are far better suited to selling lies than the truth. We have the harder job of educating the public, not just trying to force their opinion. Ignoring the astronomical expense of such things...

As we all know, education takes many years and a lot of hard work, selling the latest fashion trend that promises (lies) to make you popular, attractive, etc... can happen overnight and leaves town before people realize they have been tricked.

 

[Riverside]

Yeah, but during the 2010 hearing, I got him to publicly admit that it is not the vast majority of gun owners who are the problem, and they are chasing the wrong people. He did say this, on the record. I wish there were video footage.

Ed Davis and Tom Menino are BFF. Neither one have any intention of easing the unreasonable Restrictions currently imposed on Boston residents who have an LTC.
Best regards.

 

[Billsail]

My interpretation of Status Quo means leaving things as they are. What I see is lots of pushing back and maneuvering to get things off the table.
I don't see GOAL as going along with the Status Quo.
That's my take on it.
Best regards.

Look, I think I'm on your side, but I think you're confused as to the meaning of "status quo." It boils down to mean "no change" no matter how it happens.