Ares Armor fends off the BATFE...for now

So.. how is an EP Armory 80% illegal? Looks to be the same as any other 80, aside from a color change. The ATF doesn't understand how plastic fuses together regardless of color? You can't just dunk it in hot water and the miscolored plastic dissolves away... (or can you? hmmm)
 
If you read the PDF that ares' CEO posted, the issue is the process in which the lower is made.

ATF, despite being provided information contrary to their "knowledge", believes that the lower is completed to 100% status, and injected with the secondary color to revert it back to 80% status, which would be a violation of their current laws, rules, whatever.

Ares and, I'm assuming EP, are maintaining that the white section is built first and then the remainder of the lower is built around that, so at no point is the lower ever usable.
 
noxin said:
Ares and, I'm assuming EP, are maintaining that the white section is built first and then the remainder of the lower is built around that, so at no point is the lower ever usable.
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Mmmm yes, I would hope they make the insert first, then drop that into the mold to be covered by the lower - rather than vice versa. Otherwise ATF has a leg to stand on for manufacturing.
 
Boris said:
On the other hand, people need to stop being bundles of branches/twigs and learn how to make guns from steel and other lasting materials befitting a firearm to be used in defense of motherland and freedom.
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Not everyone has a shovel they can afford to trash.
 
Nafets said:
They do make plastic lowers. I know a couple of guys that have ordered a few. They come in OD, Black, Pink, and I'm sure a few other colors. They look to be decent quality considering they are plastic but I still prefer a raw billet lower myself.


Edit: Looks like they have removed all lowers from their website for now.
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I see plenty of 80% aluminum lowers on their site... No poly 80% lowers though.

Oh, and I would toss wayne to the ATF, IF I didn't expect him to toss all of those involved in his shit-show under the bus.
 
Smokewagon said:
Good for them. The ATF shouldn't even exist.
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I don't even get the A and the T part, the F definitely has to go and the E I don't mind so much, though in the end big deal if someone goes and makes a crater in a gravel pit just to yell YEE HAW!! I almost blew my face off with perfectly legal OTC fireworks over new years so there's something to be said about the E. That being said, that was my fault and not that of the fireworks.
 
FLEXophile said:
So this is really about plastic guns and less about the 80% receivers - "A manufacturer made an 80 percent receiver in plastic with a different material and colors which show exactly where the customer can drill making it easier and cheaper to build. The ATF said it is illegal. The ATF sent stores, including Ares Armor, letters demanding they turn over the products and names of customers who purchased them."
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Why not just mark the lowers with laser inscriptions?
 
To really understand whats going on you need to understand the injection molding process. The ATF believes that the lowers were molded completely and the white piece was added in after which would imply that they were beyond the 80% threshold and then brought back into "compliance". From looking at the assemblies I believe that the white piece is molded first and the lower is molded around it so it never exists as a complete lower. If it was a beyond that 80% and then sold to customers w/o serial numbers then people would have been in possession of hardware produced and sold out of compliance with the ATF.
 
Can someone explain to me why the ATF freedom and constitution hating goons would ask for customer lists/info if the "problem" was in fact that the vendor "made something" they shouldn't have? Do they plan on checking to see if any of these people are felons?
 
Delta L Varmint said:
Can someone explain to me why the ATF freedom and constitution hating goons would ask for customer lists/info if the "problem" was in fact that the vendor "made something" they shouldn't have? Do they plan on checking to see if any of these people are felons?
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Look to history for your answer. When the ATF had the collection of parts to build a Maadi-Griffin 50BMG rifle, it contacted the owners and demanded they serialize the guns. When the ATF decided to reverse its position that the Atkins ACcellerator was not an NFA weapob, it used the customer list to contact the owners and tell them that had to remove and return the spring to avoid being in violation of the law. I both cases, the ATF did not try to play "gotcha" with the buyers, but used the list to require product be altered to destroyed.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Doesn't always work - ask the Atkins Accelerator folks.
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It didn't help them that the thing they submitted for approval (some conceptual thing involving an SKS stock) was NOT the device that they actually made. I think BATFE got butthurt that the akins people more or less pulled a fast one on them.

-Mike
 
Two California FFLs within one week over ostensibly the same issue following the passage of a state Senate bill about "ghost guns." I wonder what exactly has prompted the interest of the federal government.
 
Does ATF believe these 80% lowers are being used in any crime that actually has a victim ?

The only justification for this agency should be to protect us , making sure they aren't actually 75% lowers , or that my whiskey is actually 12 year old scotch , my tobacco is as labeled , and m80 fireworks have fuses that are predictable. ... In my dreams.
 
fubar said:
Does ATF believe these 80% lowers are being used in any crime that actually has a victim ?

The only justification for this agency should be to protect us , making sure they aren't actually 75% lowers , or that my whiskey is actually 12 year old scotch , my tobacco is as labeled , and m80 fireworks have fuses that are predictable. ... In my dreams.
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That's an excellent point. I have not personally read ANY shooting related stories of these un-serialized lowers being used in any crime. As we all know, statistically even the percentage of crimes with the extra killy AR is super low to begin with. My fear though, is that there is so many 80% lowers out there now that sooner or later one will be used in a mass shooting, and they will of course use that to justify closing yet another so called "loophole". I also love your thoughts on what the ATF should be doing to protect us![laugh]
 
I wonder if Ares destroyed records, although that would put them in legal hot water and recovery could be possible.
 

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