.40 or 9mm

[M1911]

+1, out of all the M&P sucks/ no it doesn't debates I've read on this forum or others, rarely do see HK presented as an alternative, probably because of cost or availability if in MA, but superb shooter in my experience.

I have an HK USPc. I'm not all that impressed. YMMV.

 

[qmmo]

Hmmm.....I was scratchin' my balls for a while thinking about how to answer this, so, I took a look in my safe. I have 4 9mm's and only 1 .40 SW....and the only reason I have that .40 (a G22 police refurb - which has been flawless in use) is because I need it to test the ammo I load. I also have 4 in .45 ACP and 2 in .380 ACP. The G22 was getting lonely so I did get a G20 and started loading 10mm, but I think you get the idea. I also picked up a 9mm upper for my pre-ban AR....could've gone with a .40 or even a .45. All you need to do is ask a long time gun owner to look in his/her safe and see how many of what they actually own. And then ask them of those, which ones do they shoot regularly. When I shoot semi-auto pistol I ALWAYS bring a 9mm or 2 to the range with me. I can't say that about .40 SW.

 

[Deezul]

If 9mm is good enough for home defense too I'll prob go with that. It will def get the Apex duty kit.

 

[wahsben]

It's because the .40 S+W has the misfortune of having been the child product of the 10mm Auto. It's also intentionally weakened from its parent, not too many other cartridges have that claim attached to them. Industry/gurnrag veterans have always looked upon the cartridge as a "cut down/neutered 10mm".

In the eyes of the reloader that characterization also makes sense, because it is one of the few handgun cartridges that you can't really experiment much with before you blow the gun up. All kinds of folks hotrod 9mm, .45, .38 Super, etc, etc.... but nobody
bothers hot-rodding a .40, because the act of doing so, in reloader terms, is like trying to put a chevy big block in a Geo Metro. There's no way to (viably) do it within the physical constraints of the "vehicle". So, even those that reload it, view it as a cartridge with little upward capability.

The .40 S+W is an OK cartridge but it can't really ever escape the stigmas described above.

-Mike

Mike , the 40 is allready souped up and runs at a higher pressure that is why you can't hot rod it. I would think you could down load it to some extent if you wanted.
I shoot several different calibers including 9 & 40 and I like them all.

 

[joeendris]

The .40 SW hate here is a cliche joke at this point.
The 9mm will kick less, hold more rounds and be much cheaper to shoot
The .40 will kick more, hold 1-3 less rounds depending on frame size and be more expensive to shoot.
I own one .40, a G27. The rest of my pistols are 9mm and .357 SIG and 380.

I have a .40 and a .22 that I like to plink with at the range. I like the feel of the Sig P229, and the kick is minimally more than a 9mm. The .22's are just good fun, and damn cheap.
.40 rounds run around $.25 - $.34 per round (range rounds), while the .22 can run $.02 - $.10 per round (for the lr). I have a box of Remmy Gold Sabers for the .40, and they're $1 ea....definitely not range rounds, lol.

 

[It Works Everytime]

If 9mm is good enough for home defense too I'll prob go with that. It will def get the Apex duty kit.

My point was, if you want knock down power, modern 9mm+P and +P+ will do it. If you want plinking rounds for the range, you have that option too. Much cheaper and more variety.
I was struggling with the same quandary a week ago, and after re researching I've pretty much got my mind set on the 9mm... Or do I... I could always get the .40 and then the 9mm barrel down the road... FML!

 

[It Works Everytime]

BTW... HOVER BEAR FTW!!!

 

[mac67]

If 9mm is good enough for home defense too I'll prob go with that. It will def get the Apex duty kit.

Get the APEX RAM as well

 

[ARV]

Perhaps you should learn the difference between then and than. After that we can move up to move advanced topics like the difference between two, to, and too. Once those are mastered you can tackle the[STRIKE]y[/STRIKE] real brainteaser: there, their, and they're.

The ghost of Scrivener

 

[Flyer007]

Do you reload?

I miss reloading .40 It was so much easier to sort brass. Reloads easier for me over 9mm.

Man I miss my .40

 

[Gadsden]

Here is a hover bear to complete the package.

I bet a 9mm would stop it.

 

[DavidC77]

I don't hate the 9mm, for those that like/love it that's great.

As it was said, I don't see someone getting shot (by any round, more or less) complaining that "hey this didn't hurt, you want to shoot me with something bigger now"

I do find it funny where people are saying you have to go "up to" +P or +P+ ammo for a 9mm to be a good round. Those rounds are hot, to very hot, rounds and most likely snap just as much as a 40 S&W (if not more than).

With todays ammo even a 380 is a good round to carry. Just look at all the gun companys, they can't make the 380's fast enough as they are flying out of the gun shops as fast as they come in.

As I said earlyer, shoot both guns and buy what you shoot the best.

The biggest thing is get out there and shoot it, the more you shoot it the better you will be.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I'd go with the 9mm.

 

[jefftk]

I don't hate the 9mm, for those that like/love it that's great.

As it was said, I don't see someone getting shot (by any round, more or less) complaining that "hey this didn't hurt, you want to shoot me with something bigger now"

I do find it funny where people are saying you have to go "up to" +P or +P+ ammo for a 9mm to be a good round. Those rounds are hot, to very hot, rounds and most likely snap just as much as a 40 S&W (if not more than).

With todays ammo even a 380 is a good round to carry. Just look at all the gun companys, they can't make the 380's fast enough as they are flying out of the gun shops as fast as they come in.

As I said earlyer, shoot both guns and buy what you shoot the best.

The biggest thing is get out there and shoot it, the more you shoot it the better you will be.

That article someone posted earlier from the guy who works in the morgue had some interesting info. It pretty much said just use whatever you want as long as you shoot it well. However, I thought it also made a good point that .40 and .45 was better at breaking through bone (vs 9mm). Although, this effect might be reduced when using hollow points.

 

[40 caliber]

I'd go with the 9mm.

Gee that's a surprise

 

[PaulD]

I do find it funny where people are saying you have to go "up to" +P or +P+ ammo for a 9mm to be a good round. Those rounds are hot, to very hot, rounds and most likely snap just as much as a 40 S&W (if not more than).

The logic is, presumably, that you can use regular non +P (P?) rounds at the range for practice and load with +P for carry or home defense.

 

[drgrant]

I do find it funny where people are saying you have to go "up to" +P or +P+ ammo for a 9mm to be a good round. Those rounds are hot, to very hot, rounds and most likely snap just as much as a 40 S&W (if not more than).

Sorry, but I disagree here.

Even the Win Ranger RA9TA 127 +P+ load is nowhere near is snappy as a good 165gr .40 is in the same weight/style of handgun. If I loaded up a Glock 23 with 165s, and a Glock 19 with 127+P+s, the G19 would still be less annoying to shoot.

ETA: Even if I look at this in a dumb way (power factor) the results are pretty obvious that there would still be a considerable difference between the two....

EG:
RA9TA 9mm 127 +P+ = PF of 161 (assuming we actually get 1270 FPS)
Speer GDHP .40 165 gr = PF of 189 (assuming we get 1150 FPS)

+P/+P+ isn't required to make 9mm work properly, but I look at it this way... it's a free upgrade.

Most commercial +P or +P+ 9mm isn't that hot, in Clark Magnuson terms. Some of it is barely over +P, but they have to call it +P+ because it still violates the SAAMI spec.

Now... 9mm Major..... that's HOT.... but you're not going to find that in the store.

-Mike

 

[DavidC77]

Sorry, but I disagree here.
Most commercial +P or +P+ 9mm isn't that hot, in Clark Magnuson terms. Some of it is barely over +P, but they have to call it +P+ because it still violates the SAAMI spec.
Now... 9mm Major..... that's HOT.... but you're not going to find that in the store.
-Mike

AH OK, I was going by +P and +P+ stuff that I have shot in the past, that stuff had some serious kick to it.

As I said ammo now a days is way different than the stuff they were making even just a few yesars ago.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Most commercial +P or +P+ 9mm isn't that hot, in Clark Magnuson terms.

Dude, what is?

Did you ever see the thread where he loaded a .32ACP to .357 magnum energy levels with a triple-compressed charge?

 

[M1911]

Did you ever see the thread where he loaded a .32ACP to .357 magnum energy levels with a triple-compressed charge?

Yikes

Seems that he likes to blow up guns.

 

[drgrant]

Dude, what is?

True enough.

Did you ever see the thread where he loaded a .32ACP to .357 magnum energy levels with a triple-compressed charge?

No, I haven't found that one yet.

The best however was the Glock 9mm he had stoked up to like 1500 FPS with the dual recoil springs. that had to be in a vise to pull the slide back because you needed both hands to do it.

Another I remember, though, at one time, he tried to overload .25 ACP to the point it would blow the gun up, and no matter what he did, he couldn't do it. Not enough case capacity.

-Mike

 

[joeendris]

If 9mm is good enough for home defense too I'll prob go with that. It will def get the Apex duty kit.

Remmington Gold Saber 165gr .40 rounds:
Muzzle Energy :485 ft lbs
Muzzle Velocity :1150 fps


Federal Hydra-Shok 124gr 9mm +P+ (P9HS3G1)
Muzzle velocity is rated at 1170 FPS
Muzzle energy is rated at 375 FT/LBS

It appears that velocity is within 20fps, there's 110 ft lbs difference.

Pick your flavor

 

[OldOwl]

Well, that thread killed the morning. Just my 2 cents. Whenever we go shopping, I almost ALWAYS find plenty of .40 cal ammo at the stores and good deals on say 250 size boxes. My buddy looking for 9mm usually settles for scraps at a higher price. Why people think 9's are more plentiful is a mystery to me.

 

[Bob-Sig226]

I have a few guns in both .40 and 9. IMO, the 9 is a bit more comfortable to shoot for extended periods (e.g. range shooting) and offers a bit more control as there is less kick. Also, for some strange reason I enjoy shooting my 9 more. If you intend to carry, you can shave a "little" weight off by going 9mm but that's probably not a good argument. Solve the problem by getting 2 guns in each caliber. Carry the 9 and keep the .40 at home to fend off the zombie hoards. (Just my opinion / preference... no science applied)

 

[joeendris]

Well, that thread killed the morning. Just my 2 cents. Whenever we go shopping, I almost ALWAYS find plenty of .40 cal ammo at the stores and good deals on say 250 size boxes. My buddy looking for 9mm usually settles for scraps at a higher price. Why people think 9's are more plentiful is a mystery to me.

A better deal would be to reload....which I'm looking into. I shoot too much to keep visiting Wally World, yikes....

 

[Beer Snob]

I ditched my xDm in 40 before I came to Mass (magazine cap) and got a Glock 29SF for a carry. It's a hell of a recoil difference from 40, but 10mm has come back down a lot in price in the past few years and it's got energy to boot.

 

[breyton490]

If you are in MA, then there is no difference in the amount of rounds either a 9mm or 40 S&W will hold. Your limited to a 10 rnd mag.

I have two MP 40's and find them both easy to shoot and after a few hundred rounds of practice, you will not feel much of a difference than shooting a 9MM IMHO.

If you think you may do any action shooting in the future, most people shoot a 9MM due lower recoil and ammo cost. If you reload, ammo cost is not that big of a deal. If you are CCW, both will do the job.

If you do go with an MA Compliant M&P, I would suggest either a trigger job or buy the apex kit to bring the trigger pull into the 5.5-7lb range.

Enjoy.. its a great gun with the apex mods.

 

[joeendris]

Truth be told, a carry could be anything from a .22lr up to a .45ACP. A hole is a hole, no matter how you slice it. And a hole in an artery....well, in 75 seconds, it won't matter which round was used.

 

[wacky_doug]

If you are in MA, then there is no difference in the amount of rounds either a 9mm or 40 S&W will hold. Your limited to a 10 rnd mag.

If capacity is important, I recommend buying something for which a ready supply of pre-bans is available. Some examples (round counts are flush-fit mags):

Glock 17 or 19 - 9mm pre-bans (17rd or 15rd)

Sig 229 - 9mm (13rd) and 40s&w pre-bans (12rd)

Sig 226 - 9mm pre-bans (15rd)

40s&w is harder because of the newness of the cartridge relative to the AWB date.

Personally, I really have trouble buying something for which I can only used a neutered magazine.

 

[thebusinessend]

The capacity is limited in MA anyways so that's a moot point. The triggers on the m&ps are horrid, that alone would make me stay away from them. The ruger sr9c on the other hand is about the same size, weight, comes with the same amount of mags, has the same capacity but has an excellent trigger.
If your a new shooter I would say get the 9mm as you'll want to practice a lot to get proficient with a gun especially if you plan on carrying it. The Kahr pm9 is also an excellent choice for CC and would be acceptable for home defense if its all you had. Either way I would stay away from the m&p if it has a MA trigger, the money youll spend modifying it to be acceptable you could have spent on ammo if you purchased the ruger. If you do find a m&p with a non-ma trigger I would get it as they are excellent guns outside of this state.