Zero Hour turns in pipe bomb builder

[News Shooter]

This conversation is surreal

 

[EddieCoyle]

If you had loaned him your car, he found a loose shotgun shell under the seat, then turned you in and you lost your license and was charged accordingly, how would you feel then?

Like an idiot for leaving an unsecured shotgun under my seat and then lending someone my car.

I'd also feel like an idiot if I was making pipe bombs, told someone about it, let someone see them, and then got turned in.

 

[Dick]

This conversation is surreal

On that, at least, I think we can all agree.

 

[Garys]

Funny. The anti's and the Fudds say the same thing about your AR.

You are so stretching this that's its become a self parody. My theoretical AR is perfectly legal. Making bombs is a violation of state law. Chapter 266: Section 102A. Infernal machine; possession; definition; notice of seizure.

It's a ten year felony. Might be because experience has shown that when someone makes one of these, they tend to use it sooner or later.

Gary

 

[Martlet]

There is the key word "illegal"

Bottom line is making home made explosives is illegal.

I'm not sure why you feel compelled to drag out an argument here on the forum about a guy building pipe bombs in his garage and make replies like... "You're absolutely right. We'd better take away your guns, just in case you decide to shoot someone."
How does it all affect you? Was the guy a friend of yours? Do you have anything illegal at home that someone shouldn't see? If so do you hang around gun shops and brag about it?

So I shouldn't be irate about firearm confiscation in NO because it doesn't affect me and I didn't know anybody? I shouldn't be angered if he turns you in for having a loose round in your car and you are charged and your license yanked? I dislike people who turn in other people who are minding their own business and harming nobody. I should call the cops on my neighbor. He smokes pot.

Like I said before, I don't know the whole story, only what was reported by the news and we all know how they never leave anything out. What I do know is I don't care if it was Jim that called the cops on this guy or some old lady that lived next door.

I heard all that Jim cared to tell me. That was enough. Why don't you inform yourself, then comment?

 

[P-14]

The "logic" of some people on this board stuns me. Sheppard did a good thing because this guy was engaging in something that is incredibly dangerous, legalities aside. I'm with you MrTwigg.

Gary

I agree. Forget the pipe bombs. If the guy gets drunk and starts shooting, is it responsible? Is it safe? Same goes for pipe bombs. If you build a nuke in your basement, is it a risk to society? I guess only if you test it.

Where do you draw the line. Does the 2nd amendment guarantee you the right to build bombs? Bombs are not firearms. Is it the 1st amendment then? An expression of free speech? Do the bombs talk for us and make a point?

I'd turn him in, too. ZHA gets my business.

Bob

 

[Martlet]

I think you are assuming something which you have absolutely no way of knowing the truth of. There is a big difference between what is a technical violation of the law to most people and making a device that if detonated, even accidentally, can kill or injure a lot of people. I'm assuming you've seen the aftermath of unintentional bomb detonations, either in pictures or in person.

Seems like some people have no sense of proportion here.

Gary

Ahhhh. So you think some laws are ok to break, and shouldn't be reported, and others aren't. I get it.

Like an idiot for leaving an unsecured shotgun under my seat and then lending someone my car.

Read it again.

 

[Martlet]

You are so stretching this that's its become a self parody. My theoretical AR is perfectly legal. Making bombs is a violation of state law. Chapter 266: Section 102A. Infernal machine; possession; definition; notice of seizure.

It's a ten year felony. Might be because experience has shown that when someone makes one of these, they tend to use it sooner or later.

Gary

I'm not stretching anything. If you argue legality, I'll argue legality. If you argue lethality. I'll argue lethality. Make up your mind.

 

[Martlet]

I wish one of the lawyers would weigh in on the legality of building bombs on your property - just as a hobby with no intent to use them to harm yourself or others.

Bob

It's illegal, judging from the charges filed.

 

[P-14]

It's illegal, judging from the charges filed.

Edited my closing thought.

Thx.

 

[EddieCoyle]

I don't know Jim Sheppard but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.

This is a tough one...

If you substitute "kiddy porn" for "pipe bombs", I don't think there's anyone here that would fault Jim for turning the guy in.

However, if you substitute the more victimless "single pot plant" for "pipe bombs", then I wouldn't be so quick to congratulate him for doing his civic duty.

I don't know Jim Sheppard, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one. Here's why: He met the pipe bomb guy and we didn't.

Martlet, can you tell me that there's not somebody that you ever met somewhere that you wouldn't want with a garage full of pipe bombs?

If you picture the pipe bomb guy as an otherwise normal merry prankster, then I can see why you'd stick up for him.

What if he was a creepy, leering, wife beating drunken scumbag?

 

[Baystatesuks]

Well, for better or worse, here is M.G.L. Ch. 266, Sec. 102A:

Section 102A. Whoever, other than a police or other law enforcement officer acting in the discharge of his official duties, has in his possession or under his control an infernal machine or a similar instrument, contrivance or device shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than ten years or in jail for not more than two and one half years, or by a fine of not more than one thousand dollars, or by both such fine and imprisonment, and the said machine, instrument, contrivance or device shall be forfeited to the commonwealth. The term “infernal machine”, as used in this section, shall include any device for endangering life or doing unusual damage to property, or both, by fire or, explosion, whether or not contrived to ignite or explode automatically and whether or not disguised so as to appear harmless. Notice of the seizure of any such machine, instrument, contrivance or device shall be sent forthwith to the commissioner of public safety and the article seized shall be subject to his order.


So, it has been determined by our great legislators to be illegal. Very tough to argue this law doesn't meet a rational basis standard and would be unconstitutional.

As a lawyer, I say he is screwed (law is written toward mere possession and not actual use). Best to plea this one out.

 

[andyffemti]

He's a reasonable man who made the right call. No one should be making those pipe bombs, and no responsible gun owner would. If he was making these how safe is he at the same ranges or hunting woods that you or I may frequent. I am sure Jim was not happy having to go to MSP with this info, but this had the potential to be a disaster. What if this man's home caught on fire and those devices detonated as a firefighter I'm certain this would maim or kill firefighter(s), not to mention his 2 children. I think Zero Hour Arms just saved some lives potentially. This isn't an experimenting high school kid with some brake cleaner bombs or torn apart shotgun shells. These were IED's! Good for Zero Hour, they have my business still!


P.S. Also I think zero hour would simply fix your "malfunctioning" sear if it's firing twice, and cheaply too ;o)

 

[RHJJ]

Driving drunk, shooting drunk, building pipe bomb's drunk. All will cause you problem's.

 

[madmarc0]

Martlett, I don't understand why you are coming down so hard on something you obviously know nothing about in this instance. Jim was very torn about doing what he did but was kind of forced into it by an officer when he asked his advice on what the officer would do in a similar situation.
This guy (ambrose) was acustomer of the shop and we actually kinda liked him, BUT, when he started to act irratiaticly and then the last straw was when he came in the shop drunk and was dragging his 6 year old daughter!

If you wan't to keep your mouth shut about such things that's your right but good citizens will and should do the right thing. personally, a lot of folks know me on here and know how I feel about cops and such, I think I would do the same thing given the same circumstances.

If you choose not to do business with us and want to try and make us sound like we did then that's fine, we would not want to do business with such a narrow minded person.

Jim is my friend and I am defending him, make no bones about it. I am not going to sit by and see narrow minded folks bash him as if he ratted out a law abiding citizen for purchasing a legal or ANY gun. We are NOT that kind of shop.

If you want to know the story, call the shop and I would be happy to tell you the truth, but don't bash the guy for doing what he felt was right even if you would have let this guy possibly hurt his family.

 

[.40Smith&Wesson]

Can someone make a poll?

I'd like to know how many people will be taking the appropriate action and ceasing to do business with Zero Hour Arms.

 

[icyclefar]

I won't clutter my post with needless references, and theoretical situations.

I support Jim and his judgment 1000%

 

[drumenigma]

I believe this thread definitely shows that everyone is unique in their views. But what it comes down to is the country that you decided to live in. America has laws against this kind of thing. If you want to make homemade IED's legally then I believe Iraq doesn't have laws against things like that. In fact over there every family is allowed to own a fully automatic AK if they want for protection. If you don't agree with the laws set forth where you live now then move somewhere else.

Just to add I will still do plenty of business with ZHA. It's a good friendly place to go and I support Jim's decision 100% as well.

 

[JonJ]

Driving drunk, shooting drunk, building pipe bomb's drunk. All will cause you problem's.

What's wrong with drunk driving? As long as you don't hit someone or something, it shouldn't be illegal

 

[.40Smith&Wesson]

What's wrong with drunk driving? As long as you don't hit someone or something, it shouldn't be illegal

I see cops pounding beers at the bar all the time. And they don't ride their bicycle there.

I once saw a police cruiser idling within 50 feet of 10+ off duty officers drinking their faces off at an outside patio. I'm sure none of the 10 were driving of course. They all called their mom's for rides.

 

[JonJ]

I see cops pounding beers at the bar all the time. And they don't ride their bicycle there.

Same with the 99% of the other patrons of the bar.

 

[rscalzo]

I see cops pounding beers at the bar all the time. And they don't ride their bicycle there.

So EVERYONE drinking in a bar is legally intoxicated? Then maybe the bars should be closed down. Or everyone who leaves and gets into a motor vehicle be assumed to be over the limit and arrested without further process.

 

[Martlet]

Martlet, can you tell me that there's not somebody that you ever met somewhere that you wouldn't want with a garage full of pipe bombs?

If you picture the pipe bomb guy as an otherwise normal merry prankster, then I can see why you'd stick up for him.

What if he was a creepy, leering, wife beating drunken scumbag?

Good point. I guess I'm judging him on his age, the fact that he has run his own business for 17 years, had no complaints from his neighbors and no criminal record. The reason Jim gave for turning him in is he had children and he didn't think they should be around it. I don't remember the exact words he used, but that was the gist of it.

 

[Baystatesuks]

Same with the 99% of the other patrons of the bar.

Even a higher percentage when state legislators get together!

I have a firm belief they got rid of happy hour to protect their own livers.

Back on topic, we all break the law in one way or another (speeding, running stop signs, etc.). Each person's tolerance differs as to how much they can accept before turning others in to the police. This guy hit his limit. From this post, others would not have.

 

[RHJJ]

drunk driving

Just have someone crash into you. Loose your ltc and pay some heavy fine's. Hope no one get's hurt .

 

[.40Smith&Wesson]

Hypocrisy?

To arrest someone for DUI one night....

Then go get shitfaced and drive home the very next night?

 

[BOBKATT]

I'll start out by saying don't shoot, drive, or set off pipe bombs drunk.

This is a good debate, I can see both sides. Does anyone from either side think owning pipe bombs is similar to owning machine guns?

 

[vicpinto]

I'm torn. A good part of me says "mind your own effing business".

You are torn over this?

Did you read the part about where Sheppard went to the guy's house to to inspect an ATV? This has nothing to do with him being a gun shop owner. It's got everything to do with doing the right thing. I wonder if you'd feel any different if it were a Sears employee that went over his house to deliver a new lawn mower. Would you stop shopping at Sears?

I was at ZHA today picking up a Stag upper when this was going down. I like the shop, the employees and will continue to spend my money there.

 

[SKS Ray]

I should call the cops on my neighbor. He smokes pot.

You rat bastard you!

I'll say this and then I'm done with this thread.

What this guy was doing is illegal and dangerous. He could have killed himself, set his house on fire, endangered the lives of others, etc. Unless he was properly trained in the use and application of explosives (and he wasn't) its just as well that he's not doing it anymore.
Making comparisons for sake of argument about people who own guns legally and have licenses to possess them is just weak. So are statements like Jim catching you speeding, turning you in for having a loose round in your car, etc.

 

[Baystatesuks]

Hypocrisy?

To arrest someone for DUI one night....

Then go get shitfaced and drive home the very next night?

The police break the law all the time. For example, all state policeman drive at least 80+ mph down the mass pike in their cruisers. They are breaking the law.

They, of course, ticket everyone else for doing 80+. The system is full of hyprocrisy and double standards.