What would you do?

MaxReaver

MaxReaver

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I am moving to Texas this week and, of course, will be going through the process to get my LTC there as soon as I can.

Many of you know that Texas, while being a more gun-friendly state, is a little complicated when it comes to carrying. Signage is considered binding with lots of little do's/dont's that complicate matters. More businesses are in the practice of posting signage than you will see here in MA.

One thing that also changed is that carrying where you are NOT supposed to (if you get caught) was reduced to a Class C misdemeanor punishable by no more than a $200 fine and no jail time and no loss of LTC (the same offense level as bullshit traffic violations from what I can tell). Of course, federal property is another situation all together, but I am not asking about that.

Given the above information, would you give a SH&t about the signage?

Your thoughts?
 
Given that the penalty is so small, I'd carry anyways and take extra precautions (double check that I'm not printing), when entering business that are posted.

One concern I might have though, is if caught, can a business ban a person for good from entering their store or stores (similar to a trespassing charge)?
 
#1: I wouldn't move to Texas
#2: $200 is a lot of money. You have four options - don't go in the joint, concealed means concealed, get caught and pay the $200 or finally get caught and don't pay but hire a lawyer and take the case as far as it'll go.

It's hard to say in general terms. If I could avoid the place, I would. If not...
 
warwickben said:
lol I neg him to see if it would make 2 .




It's for science nothing personal.
Click to expand...
Hover the cursor over the red box and it says "otasan is an Airsoft Warrior". Now I'm really curious what the names are for the various amounts of red boxes. [rofl]

Oh, and I would carry on a case-by-case basis. If I know I'm going to a signed place and it's a reasonably safe place I would probably not carry. If I'm out and about and stop into a place that has the sign, I would probably go the concealed-means-concealed route and go in anyway.
 
tk421991 said:
#1: I wouldn't move to Texas
Click to expand...

Ya...I have run into a few people up here who don't know any better. But most congratulate me for GTFO.

Somehow, I don't recall a flurry of people who decide to head up here to enjoy life. They always seem to head south....hmmm. Wonder why that is.

"New England. So ugly only a yankee could love."

:)
 
russdenney said:
I am moving to Texas this week and, of course, will be going through the process to get my LTC there as soon as I can.

Many of you know that Texas, while being a more gun-friendly state, is a little complicated when it comes to carrying. Signage is considered binding with lots of little do's/dont's that complicate matters. More businesses are in the practice of posting signage than you will see here in MA.

One thing that also changed is that carrying where you are NOT supposed to (if you get caught) was reduced to a Class C misdemeanor punishable by no more than a $200 fine and no jail time and no loss of LTC (the same offense level as bullshit traffic violations from what I can tell). Of course, federal property is another situation all together, but I am not asking about that.

Given the above information, would you give a SH&t about the signage?

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

My friend says he would ignore the signage as long as he was well concealed.
 
This is what i generally think of binding signage:

[video=youtube_share;nCsVOO_3EUU]http://youtu.be/nCsVOO_3EUU[/video]

What I would do in reality would be situation dependent..

- - - Updated - - -

russdenney said:
Ya...I have run into a few people up here who don't know any better. But most congratulate me for GTFO.

Somehow, I don't recall a flurry of people who decide to head up here to enjoy life. They always seem to head south....hmmm. Wonder why that is.

"New England. So ugly only a yankee could love."

:)
Click to expand...

Most of the south moving escapees are because of the weather more than freedom. Otherwise they'd just move north and call it a day.
 
drgrant said:
Most of the south moving escapees are because of the weather more than freedom. Otherwise they'd just move north and call it a day.
Click to expand...

Weather
Cost of goods
Cost of healthcare
Cost of education (I am paying the same to send my daughter to a public college OUT OF STATE as what UMass charges for in state tuition)
Roads (potholes anyone)
Friendlier people (by a huge margin. It's a cultural thing.)
Taxes (I get to say goodbye to state income tax all-together, no more excise tax on my car)
Housing costs (Bought a VERY nice brand new home with all the really nice bells and whistles for WAY less than half of what it would be in MA)
Political environment
Gun laws
Income potential (got a raise to make the move. People always said, "Ya but you don't make as much money down south." Me and my wife are making more down south and keeping more due to the tax situation and lower cost of living)

How many reasons does one need before they own up to the fact that maybe they aren't exactly living in a great place? A lot of people are catching on and have been making the move to places like FL, NC, TX, AZ for years...

I really don't mean any offense to anyone here, but open your eyes folks. You are really gettin' bent over the table and boned...I know it isn't easy to find a way out, but it can be done with some persistence.
 
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What is missing from the equation is "what really happens?"

- If someone is caught violating a sign, are they generally ordered to leave by the business owner or are the police called?
- If the person is polite and respectful and offers to leave, do the police tend to write up the violation?
- Is it an arrestable or a citeable offense?
- Do the courts generally apply the maximum $200 fine or a lower amount?
- Is the fine paid "mail in", or do you have to appear?
- Is the gun you are carrying confiscated as evidence and, if so, do you get it back?

To take an extreme example, the penalty for violating a sign in MN was a max $25 civil fine, and the law specifically stated that forfeiture of the firearm is NOT part of the penalty. Makes for a rather interesting cost/benefit analysis.

Housing costs (Bought a VERY nice brand new home with all the really nice bells and whistles for WAY less than half of what it would be in MA)
Click to expand...
Double edge sword. I own my home, paid in full, at eastern MA prices. This gives me the option to sell and move just about any area of the country except parts of CA. If I owned a TX home paid in full, my options would be much more limited. If I owned a CA bay area home paid in full, I would have even more options.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Double edge sword. I own my home, paid in full, at eastern MA prices. This gives me the option to sell and move just about any area of the country except parts of CA. If I owned a TX home paid in full, my options would be much more limited. If I owned a CA bay area home paid in full, I would have even more options.
Click to expand...

LOL. This makes no sense. If you pay $600,000 for a home worth $600,000...you can obviously sell and take that $600,000 somewhere else to buy a house worth $600,000 in another market. This is a net zero gain function. All you are saying is you spent more so you have more in a home asset dollars to take elsewhere. How is that special?

Now, if you bought your MA home before the prices went unreasonable, then you had a gain you can put to use elsewhere of course. That can happen anywhere and there is nothing particularly special about MA that makes that possible. I would argue, given current economic conditions, you are far less like to see double digit gains in MA as the housing prices are now beyond reach for most of the market.
 
. All you are saying is you spent more so you have more in a home asset dollars to take elsewhere. How is that special?
Click to expand...
Historically, the person who borrowed $300k to buy a home at age 30 and has a paid off $600k home at 55 is, in general, better off than someone who bought a $100k home at age 30 and owns a paid off $200k home at age 55. Of course, there are exceptions, and the few who bought the $100k home and had the self discipline to save and invest the remainder of what would be a mortgage payment on a $300k house. Most people would tend to live a bit less "tightly" if they had the lower mortgage payment, rather than save all the money.
 
russdenney said:
How many reasons does one need before they own up to the fact that maybe they aren't exactly living in a great place? A lot of people are catching on and have been making the move to places like FL, NC, TX, AZ for years...

I really don't mean any offense to anyone here, but open your eyes folks. You are really gettin' bent over the table and boned...I know it isn't easy to find a way out, but it can be done with some persistence.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's just so easy to throw away everything and move halfway across the country. I might have been able to do that in my early 20s, but chances are I'd end up back up here as my parents aged or what have you. Everyone's personal calculus for this sort of thing is different.

Also some of the stuff you mentioned is debatable. Most of those states have worse gun laws than upper new england and probably will for at least the foreseeable future. Also, most of those places, at least on a state basis, are absolute crime shitholes compared to MA/NH/VT/ME. Some of the mid dump cities in FL or TX probably make Brockton, Fail River, or NB look like Disneyland. I mean this is avoidable down there too, but it takes a lot more thought and planning. The murder rates alone in all those states you mention are at a minimum far worse than they are here. All of those states have more and bigger BDCs (big dump cities) than the northeast does. The south has lots of suburbs and intermediate size cities that are crime shitholes. You ever watch COPS? 80% of the material seems like it comes from the south. A lot of caution can probably help, but that only goes so far.

Also, unless your profession has a limited supply of people to it (or you're elite grade, nation level rare at what you do) most employers, on a regional basis are going to pay less for people in low COL states vs here... So for a lot of people a move would be almost a wash.

Another thing... although may or may not be important... a lot of highly desireable locales for housing in these southern/western "free" states.... a SHIT TON of that stuff is controlled by HOAs or RCs. Good luck getting a house that doesn't have shitbird neighborhood government in the mix. It's not impossible to do but it makes house hunting a pain in the ass or limits your options... meanwhile probably an easy 80-90% of single family, non condo homes in new england probably aren't governed by HOAs or RCs.

The political thing is certainly an issue of course, and MA is worthless for that (because of the rigged system) but as a point of contrast despite NH's federal blue tinge, the state level government system (NH house and senate) has an unparalleled level of voter representation. In NH a small cabal of citizens can dethrone a shitty state rep rather easily. Good luck having that level of influence anywhere else in the country.

I wouldn't tell anyone "don't move to TX" but it's important to know that depending on circumstances the grass might
not be greener. Actually not all that long ago in TX the grass was probably on fire... that's a whole other thing I won't get too far into, but if anyone doesn't put that into their calculus when moving they're doing themselves a disservice.

-Mike
 
Rob Boudrie said:
To take an extreme example, the penalty for violating a sign in MN was a max $25 civil fine, and the law specifically stated that forfeiture of the firearm is NOT part of the penalty. Makes for a rather interesting cost/benefit analysis.
Click to expand...

It also screams "hey, we put this silly shit in there to appease the antis, and they sucked for it without actually reading the whole thing". [rofl]

-Mike
 
Two other points:
With the open carry law change this year, you can simply open carry into the places that are signed

The signage has to meet the legal requirements to be binding. From what I hear, most aren't. The 30.06 cite dines all that.


Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 
russdenney said:
I am moving to Texas this week and, of course, will be going through the process to get my LTC there as soon as I can.

Many of you know that Texas, while being a more gun-friendly state, is a little complicated when it comes to carrying. Signage is considered binding with lots of little do's/dont's that complicate matters. More businesses are in the practice of posting signage than you will see here in MA.

One thing that also changed is that carrying where you are NOT supposed to (if you get caught) was reduced to a Class C misdemeanor punishable by no more than a $200 fine and no jail time and no loss of LTC (the same offense level as bullshit traffic violations from what I can tell). Of course, federal property is another situation all together, but I am not asking about that.

Given the above information, would you give a SH&t about the signage?

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Where about are you moving to? And yes, I would obey the signage, but only the legal binding signage. And definitely avoid and refuse to patronize places that prohibit carry (except bars and restaurants since it's not up to them if they have a 51% sign).

And keep in mind that the first offense is Class C and subsequent offenses escalate. So you can get "caught" 1x and no big deal.
 
TX is a good choice. Especially if you work in technology.

However, in that case, you will be in Austin. Austin is the most expensive part of Texas with house prices less than the Boston suburbs, but not as much less than you think. (A friend just paid $500k for a 4200 sq ft house in Austin. Its probably a $350k house in Houston)

But Austin is beautiful with hills and trees and real weather, there is a real downtown with an art scene and plays and all the things that are good about cities.

So yeah. Its cheaper and companies like Oracle, Apple and Google are expanding there.

Its a solid choice. Especially if you like warmer climates.

But don't delude yourself. Governments in TX are just as willing to take a citizen's rights as those in the Northeast. They just happen to like guns.

If only North or South Dakota were warm, It would be where I retire to.

As it is, i'm probably thinking the FL keys. Caribbean (not FL) feel with FL gun laws and taxes.

Don

p.s. I agree with Rob's comment about real estate. We stretched hard to buy a new construction when we moved to Arlington 4 years ago. It was tough because we had not yet sold our house in the terrible r/e market in CT. But now 4 years later, our home is worth $250k more than we paid for it.

A rising market is bad if you need to upgrade in that same rising market. But if you can take your cash to somewhere with a softer market or downsize then you win big.
 
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I understand the appeal of TX to some. I've spent about a year down there, but it is just not for me. I spent 3 weeks in Houston, then the balance of the year in Dallas. To me, the best thing I can say about Dallas is that it isn't Houston. I've visited San Antonio and that wasn't for me either. I haven't visited Austin. I suspect I would prefer Austin to the rest of TX.

There are several things that I dislike about Texas. Way too hot and humid for me. The ridiculous proliferation of HOAs. High crime. Most of it is too far from the coast. And Texans.

For me, moving out of Boston is unlikely before we retire in about 10 years. I am a software developer in the biotech field, and Boston/Cambridge is the center of the universe when it comes to biotech/pharma research. I am paid fairly and have 6 weeks of vacation. I get almost all holidays, including Columbus Day, Veteran's Day, MLK Day, etc. Alas, I don't get Bunker Hill Day. My employer matches my 401k dollar for dollar up to 6%. And for the past few years, they have been giving a Xmas bonus into our 401k of another 3%. So I put in 15%, but end up with 24%. My wife's main client is the Commonwealth of MA and her job is tied to her knowledge of MA regulations.

For some, it may be easy to pull up stakes. For us, it doesn't make sense. If we do decide to retire out west, I would lobby for AZ or NM over TX. YMMV.

As for binding signage, I can not confirm or deny that I have ignored such signs.
 
I lived in Austin for two years back in the 90's. It's a bit of a blur, as we had two kids born in the two years we lived there, so I was on no sleep. I do remember putting up Christmas lights in shorts and sandals, having to remove my motorcycle helmet while waiting for a train crossing because it was too hot to keep it on, and having scorpions crawling around my house.

I also remember voting at the supermarket, a week or two before election day, because that's how they vote down there.

I wouldn't rule out going back. At some point during 2016 I am going to be selling my house and putting all of my stuff into a truck. My plan is to move to NH where I currently work, but it wouldn't take much convincing for me to just drive south and find a new job. My youngest is going to college in TN. Maybe I drop her at school and start interviewing at engineering firms.
 
russdenney said:
I am moving to Texas this week and, of course, will be going through the process to get my LTC there as soon as I can.

Many of you know that Texas, while being a more gun-friendly state, is a little complicated when it comes to carrying. Signage is considered binding with lots of little do's/dont's that complicate matters. More businesses are in the practice of posting signage than you will see here in MA.

One thing that also changed is that carrying where you are NOT supposed to (if you get caught) was reduced to a Class C misdemeanor punishable by no more than a $200 fine and no jail time and no loss of LTC (the same offense level as bullshit traffic violations from what I can tell). Of course, federal property is another situation all together, but I am not asking about that.

Given the above information, would you give a SH&t about the signage?

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I'd check and triple check, and then hire a lawyer and check. Big difference between a $200 fine and a felony....but if you're sure the law has changed, carry away.
 
mclina said:
and having scorpions crawling around my house.
Click to expand...

When a friend of mine was approached by a recruiter for a job in TX, the recruiter asked him what he knew about TX. He replied: "fire ants, scorpions, rattlesnakes, killer bees, and *******s in cowboy boots." The recruiter replied, "well, I haven't seen any killer bees."
 

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