csobrien
NES Member
Hadn’t checked this thread since morning and now I see we’ve progressed to unironically discussing our distaste for miscegenation.
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Two Weapons, a Chase, a Killing and No Charges: A 25-year-old man running through a Georgia neighborhood ended up dead
- Thread starter Reptile
- Start date
71montess
NES Member
Rsean was just doing the Jessy Smolett thing.HATE HOAX: BLACK MAN ‘CREATED FAKE PROFILE’ OF WHITE TRUMP SUPPORTER TO ISSUE THREATS AGAINST PRO-ARBERY PROTESTERS
“Smith created a Facebook User ID of an unwitting individual to post a hoax threat.”
Not the brightest bulb.
Expect more of this as provocateurs stir up racial violence.
71montess
NES Member
How many whites get killed by blacks per year ? How many blacks get killed by whites per year ?
nothing obviously.
I guess the black dude in GA deserved to get shot because a different black guy 1500 miles away did something atrocious? Not really sure how the NES Klan Kids think, but I'm guessing it's along those lines.
So what do YOU think, since you are so enlightened (other than having slept through English class)?
"Excuse me sir, I noticed this is an active work site, and I'm looking for employment. You dont happen to be looking for an extra hand are you?"
"Excuse me sir, I saw that you have a port-o-potty on the front lawn, I'm out for a jog and have no where to relieve myself. Any chance I could use your toilet?"
"Excuse me sir, I see that this is an active work site, and I know a lot of scrap wood gets thrown away, any chance you could make a scrap pile on the side that I can take instead of tossing in the trash? It will actually be cheaper for you as they charge by weight."
All 3 of these are valid reasons to enter a jobsite without invitation. I have used all 3 in my lifetime. I did the port-o-potty one in January. Except I wasn't running. As I am a fat basterd.
"Excuse me sir, I saw that you have a port-o-potty on the front lawn, I'm out for a jog and have no where to relieve myself. Any chance I could use your toilet?"
"Excuse me sir, I see that this is an active work site, and I know a lot of scrap wood gets thrown away, any chance you could make a scrap pile on the side that I can take instead of tossing in the trash? It will actually be cheaper for you as they charge by weight."
All 3 of these are valid reasons to enter a jobsite without invitation. I have used all 3 in my lifetime. I did the port-o-potty one in January. Except I wasn't running. As I am a fat basterd.
Chasing down and killing someone for poking around a construction site is justified nowadays?
This thread has taken a turn for sure.
This thread has taken a turn for sure.
71montess
NES Member
There is a lot of evidence of bad moves on both parts. If I had a gun pointed at me, and the guy was saying citizens arrest, I would take it he was not going to shoot me. So I wouldn’t be desperate enough to go for his gun and risk getting shot. If that’s what went down. Who knows?IMNSHO. YMMV. C.E. IANAL. Definitely didn't stay at a Holiday Inn last night. Still, here's my opinion so far.
In GA open carry of a shotgun is legal. So is effecting a citizen arrest if one has cause to suspect a felony has been committed (ex. theft over $500). And deadly force is permitted in self-defense from a deadly threat. Defending yourself from someone who is likely to shoot you is pretty clear self-defense.
My jury is still out. Clearly Ahmaud was acting suspicious and not just out for a run, but it's not yet clear that was sufficient to justify a citizen's arrest. It does not appear from the videos I've seen that he's carrying any kind of tool or +$500 object, but had there been burglaries sufficient to justify their suspicions. More evidence needed for me.
My $64K question is how was the struggle for the gun initiated. Did Travis point the gun at Ahmaud and approach him, or did Ahmaud come at Travis and attempt to grab the shotgun particularly if it was not initially pointed at him. The videos I've seen to date are not conclusive either way on this point. Again, more evidence needed.
![[popcorn]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/043.gif "Popcorn [popcorn]")
LOL.
"Defend your community." From JOGGERS.
Christ. You clearly don't realize how silly you sound, but as I've advised before in this thread: might want to stop digging, you know?
I think its silly for anyone to consider this guy a "jogger" (did you not see the video Kevin9 referenced? where some dude yelled at him and he ran away?) That said, I don't think what he is actually changes the legal outcome here at all. Generally speaking chasing people down in the road and plugging them "only because you THOUGHT that they were up to no good" is not
legal in most places.
-Mike
71montess
NES Member
Did the fat white guy just plain shoot the black guy or did the black guy grab the gun and the white guy shot him then ?
this could make a difference.
this could make a difference.
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You and like minded posters know the innermost thoughts and intentions of the white guys and have condemned them for it, but what the black guy was thinking and up to only god can know, but it was probably innocent exercise. TV said so. The virtue signaling and self hatred in this thread is pathetic. And no it isn't someone else's fault that you do think those things.
It's hard to say. It looks as though he probably shot him the first time as he was approaching and about to grab it, then he fired again once he was grabbing. Then a third.
I don't really care whether he was running, jogging, burgling, or what: in THAT MOMENT, the dudes in the truck were in zero danger from him. They chose the situation and are responsible for the outcome.
No. I don't have the first clue what was in their minds, though it's awesome that you're projecting.
See, what's in their minds doesn't matter much to me. Their choices and behaviors matter. And sorry, but two guys in a truck with a gun vs a man on foot in running clothes?
So easy. It would have been so easy, if these guys were the sacred neighborhood defenders you want them to be, for them just to hang in their truck and call 911. So easy. But no; they wanted to kill him instead.
not sure how it makes a difference. it's not legal to just run around pointing guns at people. Guy prob thought the only way he was going to live is if he fought back and tried to grab the gun.
too bad the dude wasn't armed himself and shot both those c***s.
"self hate" who here is self hating? Not thinking it's ok for people to go around gunning other people down in the streets is "self hate" to you. Jesus dude, get bent.
you're giving him too much credit.
Link those video! Because the two I've seen here, reportedly the same day, just show him going in and coming out. Just the one time. Doesn't take, or even touch anything. And no reports of any theft. The one theft reported was a gun stolen from a truck (in front of the shooter's house) two months previously, with no witnesses.
Building was wide open, no one was living there. Looked around some open construction. Even trespassing would require a sign or being told to leave. Even here in NH you'd need more than just walking on your property to use lethal force. They'd need to be stealing something, or at least a no trespassing sign (but I think more than that). You can use force to protect you property, but someone walking across your yard is going to be hard to sell as a threat.
Please provide some detail on how you got this? He walked in, looked around and left. Unless you're a mind reader I don't see how you knew his intentions.
Not even. Georgia's trespass law is a "civil statute". In Georgia it's not trespassing to enter private property if it's not posted with "NO TRESPASSING" signs or similar signage prohibiting entry. It becomes trespassing if someone tells you to leave and you don't, or if you enter the property with unlawful intent. Even then it's only a misdemeanor. The property wasn't posted, no one told him to leave, and, in the absence of objective evidence proving ill intent, we are legally and morally obligated to give him the benefit of the doubt. We cannot assume his intentions were bad, opinions of some posters to this thread notwithstanding.
Georgia Trespassing 101
In one way or another we encounter sign posts with the above inscriptions posted on fences and trees. But what do those words mean? What does criminal trespassi
bixonlaw.com
kevin9
NES Member
Here's a video clip of the confrontation leading up to the shooting:
Here's what I do and do not see:
:09 - Ahmaud jogging in the left lane. A truck in the right lane facing away. Someone is in the truck bed. Someone is standing in the left lane. Driver's door is open. Neither person with the truck is clearly seen. I cannot see if either person is armed, although we later learn they are, or how they are carrying or pointing their guns.
:12-:13 Video gets jittery
:14-:15 Ahmaud has moved to right lane behind truck. Person standing in bed. Other person standing in left lane. No guns visible.
:16-:18 Video jitters off to right, loses track of everyone
:19 Barely see Ahmaud has run around right side of truck and turns to go in front of it
:20 Person in bed of truck is facing forward, appears to have left hand up around their face with elbow out. Right hand is also up but doing what is unclear. Could be holding handgun pointed up by their face, or could be phone in left hand, with right hand cupped to yell. Just cannot tell. Person on the ground is standing on the yellow line, in front of driver's door, facing toward Ahamud, who appears to be entirely in front of truck. No guns visible.
:20-:28 Ahmaud struggles with person standing on the ground. Cannot tell exactly how it started.
:27 First time we see a gun, a long gun that Ahmaud and the person on the ground appear to be struggling over
:28 Video freezes.
There is no audio so we don't know from this whether the McMichaels were verbally threatening to kill Ahmaud the whole time, or only just asking to talk to him, or something in between.
We cannot clearly tell if Ahmaud initiated the physical contact or not, or exactly why.
No guns are visible until Ahmaud and Travis are already struggling over the shotgun at the end. We don't know if they were pointing their guns at Ahmaud the whole time, if either one pointed a gun at Ahmaud at some point partway in, if the person in the truck bed ever had their gun out, or if Ahmaud tried to grab a gun that was being carried but not pointed at him (ex. one hand around the receiver down by their side).
IMNSHO these are all key points that cannot be determined from the video.
Again, my jury is still out. Probably will be until actual evidence is presented at trial, although no party appears to be squeaky clean.
Here's what I do and do not see:
:09 - Ahmaud jogging in the left lane. A truck in the right lane facing away. Someone is in the truck bed. Someone is standing in the left lane. Driver's door is open. Neither person with the truck is clearly seen. I cannot see if either person is armed, although we later learn they are, or how they are carrying or pointing their guns.
:12-:13 Video gets jittery
:14-:15 Ahmaud has moved to right lane behind truck. Person standing in bed. Other person standing in left lane. No guns visible.
:16-:18 Video jitters off to right, loses track of everyone
:19 Barely see Ahmaud has run around right side of truck and turns to go in front of it
:20 Person in bed of truck is facing forward, appears to have left hand up around their face with elbow out. Right hand is also up but doing what is unclear. Could be holding handgun pointed up by their face, or could be phone in left hand, with right hand cupped to yell. Just cannot tell. Person on the ground is standing on the yellow line, in front of driver's door, facing toward Ahamud, who appears to be entirely in front of truck. No guns visible.
:20-:28 Ahmaud struggles with person standing on the ground. Cannot tell exactly how it started.
:27 First time we see a gun, a long gun that Ahmaud and the person on the ground appear to be struggling over
:28 Video freezes.
There is no audio so we don't know from this whether the McMichaels were verbally threatening to kill Ahmaud the whole time, or only just asking to talk to him, or something in between.
We cannot clearly tell if Ahmaud initiated the physical contact or not, or exactly why.
No guns are visible until Ahmaud and Travis are already struggling over the shotgun at the end. We don't know if they were pointing their guns at Ahmaud the whole time, if either one pointed a gun at Ahmaud at some point partway in, if the person in the truck bed ever had their gun out, or if Ahmaud tried to grab a gun that was being carried but not pointed at him (ex. one hand around the receiver down by their side).
IMNSHO these are all key points that cannot be determined from the video.
Again, my jury is still out. Probably will be until actual evidence is presented at trial, although no party appears to be squeaky clean.
Is it just me or does that kind of look like a nice neighborhood? Except for the whole hunting humans thing. Those trees look like they could be pesky though.
Quite a lot, according to his social media...
White Couple Killed By Black Gunman - Possible 'Retaliation' For Ahmaud Arbery! - Style Monument
A White couple was shot and killed last night in Delaware, and police are investigating whether the shooting was done in “retaliation” for the apparent racist killing of Georgia’s Ahmaud Arbery, Police say that yesterday a Black man, wearing tactical armor and carrying multiple weapons, shot and...
stylemonument.com
Here’s another cogent argument from Colion so now we have the Leo vs Lawyer vids. I like both stances but I’m leaning towards Colion’s stance and the McMichael’s may end up with manslaughter convictions. A very tough case! Should be interesting how it plays out.
View: https://youtu.be/yr-HMjlr1sU
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KBCraig
NES Member
Yep, fat white guy was just minding his own business when the black guy charged him and tried to take his gun.
That's how a couple of our members here see it... through the holes in their hoods.
Lols.
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The leeway granted to LEOs is considerable and, absent the video, who knows what would be accepted as the official story? The two words "furtive movement" would probably have been enough to get the shootee posthumously charged (well not really, but they would if they could).
Just look at Middlesex County / Framingham where "ooops" is a valid defense for an LEO to avoid even being charged or losing his LTC/union protected employment. Chances are that officer (a status I believe he had because he was a prison guard) just figured he was in charge.
But, at least the LEO factor makes it hard to argue this is the result of civilian gun ownership.
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Racist. Hey the dry cleaners just called and your white sheets are ready!Quite a lot, according to his social media...
White Couple Killed By Black Gunman - Possible 'Retaliation' For Ahmaud Arbery! - Style Monument
A White couple was shot and killed last night in Delaware, and police are investigating whether the shooting was done in “retaliation” for the apparent racist killing of Georgia’s Ahmaud Arbery, Police say that yesterday a Black man, wearing tactical armor and carrying multiple weapons, shot and...stylemonument.com
babygorilla
NES Member
View: https://youtu.be/Q7N6bC5cnVU?t=38
Also see video in post #289
There is a roof and four walls. It is dried in. It is a residence. This is why Job Boxes exist.......And previous thefts may explain why there is a camera.
Also see Castle Doctrine. 3 Critical Stand Your Ground Rules in Georgia - U.S. & Texas LawShield
