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Traffic stop while carrying
- Thread starter mazzler
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Keep in mind that some states, other than MA, require you inform any officer on an official interaction (for example, traffic stop) that you are carrying. This does not always go well - google "Canton ohio harless" to see how it can go bad. And note, that even though the court found the charges bogus, he was fined $150 for "stopping in the road" since the system does not like to go away from a case unfed.
I was in a car with two other folks and the first thing the cop asked when stopped was "I smell gun powder, where are the guns" (I was carrying). 15 minutes and two backups later the driver was told "You are exercising you right as an American to be armed and that is a good thing, here is your warning for the violation". And this was is in a heavy moonbat town.
I was in a car with two other folks and the first thing the cop asked when stopped was "I smell gun powder, where are the guns" (I was carrying). 15 minutes and two backups later the driver was told "You are exercising you right as an American to be armed and that is a good thing, here is your warning for the violation". And this was is in a heavy moonbat town.
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![[wink]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/002.gif "Wink [wink]")
dcmdon
NES Member
Don't say anything unless you are asked to get out of the car. If he wants you out, he's going to frisk you. Better to tell him before he finds it.
If he asks if you have one, either say you aren't going to answer or say yes. NEVER lie to the police.
Don
dcmdon
NES Member
No.
You never have to say anything to a LEO. At least (amazingly) not in MA. Although Rob will probably chime in and tell me of a case where someone exercised their 5A rights and was deemed "unsuitable" because of it.
But never ever lie to a cop.
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Godfrey v. Wellesley. The appellate court held that while the plaintiff "may" have had a right to remain silent, and "may" be entitled to recourse, that recourse is not restoration of his firearms license.
This was pre-Heller. If this were to happen today, I would probably not have a problem getting the Comm2A executive committee (that approves case expenditures) to fund a case, as requiring someone to choose between two constitutional rights would make a strong federal case.
We were on the way back from a match. I was the only one carrying. The officer decided since there were three people in the car he needed to see two LTCs. No disarming, get out of the car, just "don't move around too much".
Three people in the car, pulled over for a civil infraction, smell of gunpowder emanating from the car, back up called, and the officer decided he needed to see two LTCs, because you (a passenger) were carrying, coming from a match.
Sure, sounds legit.
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The dispatcher just heard "gun" and decided to send everything. Turns out the dispatcher (who is now a detective) was someone I already knew from the gun club. We were told the car resembled one they were looking for (but the officer did not explain why). Everything was calm; the officer was polite and professional; and let the driver off on a what would have been a legit moving violation.
allen-1
NES Member
It's more important to disclose to your tailor so that he/she can fit your suit properly. A quiet "I dress left and carry an IWB at 5:00 is usually sufficient" to a good tailor.
allen-1
NES Member
That's bad advice; it makes their neck slippery and their heels slide.
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You're new here aren't you?
And when I compare our join dates, they're identical - so I guess we just have different expectations.
dcmdon
NES Member
Agreed. When they talk to you they are trying to see if you have done anything else wrong. If you don't say anything, you can't say anything stupid.
A friend recently had to deal wit the police in CT over a domestic call. The cops came, separated the two of them and started asking questions. My friend said the cop was very cordial and empathetic. He said that he might have done the same thing in a similar situation. So my friend kept on talking, right into an arrest.
When I asked him about it I was astonished at his ignorance. So I sent him a link to an old police I & I (interview and interrogation) manual.
https://antipolygraph.org/documents/dodpi-interrogation.pdf
A few days later he called me. OH MY GOD. He was just working me, my friend said.
Of course he was.
Don
p.s. I STRONGLY advise that anyone who has not read one, read the pdf at this link. In it you will see WHY the cop is so empathetic. You will see WHY the cop minimizes what he thinks you might have done. In it, you will also see why it is not an even fight to go toe to toe while you are stressed out, with someone who has received probably hundreds of hours of training in this kind of thing.
https://antipolygraph.org/documents/dodpi-interrogation.pdf
No kidding! I took the "Reid Technique: Interview & Interrogation" one-day class back at the old police academy and can tell you that it is extremely effective. The instructor had a veteran officer as a volunteer and I swear that he would have admitted murdering his mother even if his mother was standing next to him at the time! Very impressive indeed.
Got pulled over exiting a liquor store last year, told my license plate light was out. Cop saw the handle of my k-bar sticking up between the center console and passenger seat. Asked if I was Army or Marines, I told him neither. Asked me if I had any other weapons, told him "Just the loaded 45 on my right hip, license is in my wallet." gave him the LTC, d/l, registration, he checked everything, told me to buy a bulb
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+1
These techniques, like timeshare high pressure sales, are used for one reason...they work.
The "emphathize" and "I would have done the same thing" have been used for ages. A retired cop lent me his interrogation textbook and it was all the same stuff, except for some pre-Mirandiasms (like "tell the suspect only guilty people need an attorney")
JayMcB
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they're infuriatingly effective. the only defense against them is "I wish to remain silent, and I do not wish to answer any of your questions without an attorney present"
Say it, learn it, live it.
namedpipes
NES Member
I recall a few dozen times in my youth being asked if I had any weapons "he needed to know about" or variations on the theme. These days, I don't seem to get asked if I'm carrying. I suppose because I look like some kind of mousy, moonbat accountant.
Point of curiosity, though. I take it you're saying that even if asked a direct question "Are you carrying a gun?" you don't need to answer, at least until it becomes pertinent to the stop.
I can imagine the officer becoming irritated if you simply don't answer or even PO'd if you answer with "am I free to leave", etc.
Is there a safe, unaggressive way to assert to the officer that it isn't in scope for this encounter? What would work if YOU were the officer doing the stop?
I get that I can just say "stuff it", but that makes the ticket a "lock" and as Mr. Boudrie points out, opens the door to potential years long lawsuits.
warwickben
bubba Kalashnikov
I swear having my ltc gotten me out of tickets in my town Tewksbury. Every time I get pulled over first thing they ask if I'm carrying .
Then I get verbal warnings for shit I could get my car towed for.
Then I get verbal warnings for shit I could get my car towed for.
I've been stopped three times in MA for speeding. Each time for 15mph over. All three times I've gotten a written warning. MA police give out lots of warnings.
