Pulled over while carrying......interesting experience

[Jason Flare]

Wrong. The LEO even admitted he only knew because he saw the license.

-Mike

Because cops tell the truth.

 

[drgrant]

Because cops tell the truth.

They usually only lie when it actually gets them something. Further if you knew how the system worked, you'd realize that doing this for every traffic stop is a pain in the ass, and assuming that a registered owner is always the driver is likely a huge failbus, too. Its pure tinfoil if anyone here thinks an LTC lookup on a traffic stop is some kind of automatic thing.

-Mike

 

[todd c]

i would have done the exact samething good job op. the safest place for a fire arm is in the holster. i would be worried the cop might hit the trigger when grabbing for it then it would be his word against yours who pulled the trigger.

 

[Terminator03]

From what I recall being discussed here before, unless Natick has none or the most bass-ackwards terminals in their cruisers LTC status shows up as a line item on the main screen when they run the plate and if it is registered to the person who has the LTC. They can drill down on that to see the fa-10 generated list.


As others have mentioned, knowing a person has an LTC should be mind-easing, not a cause for apprehension. I wonder if there are ANY stats on how many cops in MA have ever been shot by an LTC holder at a traffic stop. Ever.

Take my gun out of its holster while I'm seated and hand it to him? How, with muzzle pointed at my own head as I hand him an unfamiliar 1911 in Condition 0? Fat ****ing chance. I'd rather be tasered and let them take it from my body than look down the barrel of my own gun.

Seriously, they guy is ASKING someone to put his hand on his weapon's grip and pull his weapon out while the cop's gun is holstered? IS he ****ing retarded? He'd be dead three times over before he returned fire.

What a complete, absolute ****ing moron.

I agree 100%, but if you think about it, that creates a really awkward situation for EVERYONE involved. First, as you said, it puts you in direct danger, either from pointing your own gun at yourself, or just drawing it PERIOD because it could get you shot or tazed if the cop felt threatened. Worst part of that scenario is that he would be completely justified and vindicated no matter what, especially once the MSM got a hold of the story of a reckless driver drawing a concealed firearm on an officer during a routine stop. The next problem comes in with a situation like the OP had having his kids in the car. What if you are the type of parent that doesn't disclose you even own firearms to your kids? Stupid, I know, but I know several people who have grown kids that never knew they owned guns for one reason or another. So that presents you with an awkward conversation to have with your kids after the stop about "why" daddy has a gun on him when the teachers at school taught them "gunz are BAD"! Lastly, it puts the cop in a compromised position since he either has to FORCE his authority, or back down (which I'm incredibly shocked that happened in this situation!). Either way, the cop was wrong to ask what he did. It should have ended when the OP answered in the affirmative that he was legally licensed AND carrying - period!

 

[Danb3387]

It's certainly could. I suppose it depends how you have your CJIS client set up. Otherwise, you have to log into CJISweb and look it up. For licenses where my department is the issuing authority they're a bit easier to see, as the licenses will also show up on out in-house.

But I don't even have CJISweb in the cruiser, and I certainly can't lookup FA-10 records without contacting dispatch and waiting 10 minutes.

How do you run plates at a traffic stop?

 

[jhagberg88]

does he have a legal right to confiscate your property?

 

[JJ4]

Someone needs to have a conversation about this with Natick Chief Hicks. If this is how officers are trained thats a huge problem.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[bandaid bandit]

How do you run plates at a traffic stop?

Likely via the "in house" database/computer system. There are a number of programs that are used to log/dispatch calls/responses/track a person's involvement with the law, and can be used to query the rmv/ncic/etc quicker than the CJIS Web(Which i think is actually still using a 56k dial up modem, at least it seems)

 

[Danb3387]

Likely via the "in house" database/computer system. There are a number of programs that are used to log/dispatch calls/responses/track a person's involvement with the law, and can be used to query the rmv/ncic/etc quicker than the CJIS Web(Which i think is actually still using a 56k dial up modem, at least it seems)

Some days it seems like it would be quicker to go to the RMV and wait for the vehicle info, then to use CJIS.

 

[mattyw]

Okay, had a similar experience in Braintree. This officer was a bit aggressive because I came off the from route 3 ramp and into the rotary a little faster than the posted speed limit, say 40mph instead of 20mph. He didn't like my attitude, or my radar detector.... "why do you need that?" answer because I would prefer to avoid the speeding ticket.... "oh, so you speed all the time? Where are you going?.... Answer: The gun range, its been a rough week and I'm anxious to get to the range... " You have firearms in the vehicle?" Yes. Here's my LTC, no restrictions "Are you carrying on your person?" Yes a Sig 239 40. "Is it in a holster?" Yes. I have two more on the passenger floor in my gun bag. A 45 colt and S&W 1911. Would you like to inspect them?. "ah, no that's all right. Be right back with your ticket." I'll admit I was very nervous and at first was not going to say anything, but he was just so obnoxious about the radar Detector... Would like to hear of other experiences... Heard/read that one should produce the LTC with the license in those situations. Not sure what the right reaction should be... Any suggestions?

my suggestion is basically to do the opposite of everything you did/said
you gave up so much unnecessary information

 

[mark056]

my suggestion is basically to do the opposite of everything you did/said
you gave up so much unnecessary information

When people are nervous, they tend to react rather than think things through. It is really easy to armchair quaterback this and say "if it were me" but the truth of the matter many people will react differently under stress. I'd tend not to be so critical until you have been in those shoes.

 

[ridleyman]

Ben, seriously?
Did you seriously just post this? In a forum with fellow gun owners/carriers??

I carry everywhere, every time. Never ever ever leave my home without my weapon.
ANY scenario can happen at ANY time. THIS IS WHY WE CARRY GUNS.
You think there's never been an incident where a driver at a drive through was set upon by gun wielding thugs and, at gunpoint, forced to hand over the cash, the car, the car with the kids, the wife, etc.
Almost always my G26 on me, but, if "just around the corner for the paper" or down the street for at 1am milkshake, at minimum - MINIMUM - wherever I go, my SW 442 in my pocket. I carry the damn thing to the dumpster at the end of the condo complex where I live. I carry it in my sweatpants for morning walk/jog. I carry carry CARRY literally always, EVERYWHERE.

Why? Paranoid? Nope.
But I think I've heard once or twice that it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
You're in Tewksbury, Ben. I was in nearby Dracut several years. Dracut is a very quiet town, even more so than Tewksbury!. And not once, in all the time I lived there, nor at anytime since I first received my LTC many years ago, was I ever unarmed. 1am, 1pm, milkshake or milk duds. Never.
I carry, because I am a gun owner. Why own a gun if you don't always carry it?
You go to Dairy Queen unarmed if you want.
I'm SW442, +p hollow points. And I'm guessing a larger percentage of gun owners feel the way I do. Amy Lord walked to the gym at 6am on a beautiful day in South Boston. Cuz she probably thought "nobody is gonna bother me". Also, suppose, on your way home, you get broadsided by a sh*tbox car with two deranged, meth-infused junkies looking to score another rock. They're FURIOUS that you had the audacity to be sitting at that stop sign or red light... they jump out and, in their drugged-out haze/rage,simply begin attacking you.
Just because.
And for no other good reason than just because.
I promise you, "Stab the muthaf*cka" will never be the last thing I will hear prior to leaving this earth.

But the last thing Meth-Head #1 or #2 will hear prior to attempting to plunge the knife into me will be...."BANG".
By the way, how's that milkshake taste?

awesome response-you need to have your own talk radio show!

 

[ephemeratta]

Ben, seriously?
Did you seriously just post this? In a forum with fellow gun owners/carriers??

I carry everywhere, every time. Never ever ever leave my home without my weapon.
ANY scenario can happen at ANY time. THIS IS WHY WE CARRY GUNS.
You think there's never been an incident where a driver at a drive through was set upon by gun wielding thugs and, at gunpoint, forced to hand over the cash, the car, the car with the kids, the wife, etc.
Almost always my G26 on me, but, if "just around the corner for the paper" or down the street for at 1am milkshake, at minimum - MINIMUM - wherever I go, my SW 442 in my pocket. I carry the damn thing to the dumpster at the end of the condo complex where I live. I carry it in my sweatpants for morning walk/jog. I carry carry CARRY literally always, EVERYWHERE.

Why? Paranoid? Nope.
But I think I've heard once or twice that it's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.
You're in Tewksbury, Ben. I was in nearby Dracut several years. Dracut is a very quiet town, even more so than Tewksbury!. And not once, in all the time I lived there, nor at anytime since I first received my LTC many years ago, was I ever unarmed. 1am, 1pm, milkshake or milk duds. Never.
I carry, because I am a gun owner. Why own a gun if you don't always carry it?
You go to Dairy Queen unarmed if you want.
I'm SW442, +p hollow points. And I'm guessing a larger percentage of gun owners feel the way I do. Amy Lord walked to the gym at 6am on a beautiful day in South Boston. Cuz she probably thought "nobody is gonna bother me". Also, suppose, on your way home, you get broadsided by a sh*tbox car with two deranged, meth-infused junkies looking to score another rock. They're FURIOUS that you had the audacity to be sitting at that stop sign or red light... they jump out and, in their drugged-out haze/rage,simply begin attacking you.
Just because.
And for no other good reason than just because.
I promise you, "Stab the muthaf*cka" will never be the last thing I will hear prior to leaving this earth.

But the last thing Meth-Head #1 or #2 will hear prior to attempting to plunge the knife into me will be...."BANG".
By the way, how's that milkshake taste?

Now imagine how'd you feel being a LEO.

 

[ridleyman]

I was pulled over speeding on the Pike a while ago, with a Kahr pm9 in my front pocket. when the cop, who happened to be a dickhead, approached the car, I kept my hands at 10 & 2 for his feeling of safety, and then promptly told him that I have an LTC. He asked me what I had, where it was, and why I carry. I thought that it was none of his effing business, but i politely responded with one word, "Protection", and didn't elaborate or try to educate this guy. He took my driver's license and LTC and gave me a ticket, which I later beat in court.

I'm still not sure what to do in the future, should this happen again. I want the cops to feel safe and that I'm being honest and forthcoming, and I'm pretty sure that they know who has what in terms of LTCs and guns, although I feel like it's none of their business if I'm not a criminal, which they also know.

As a last note, most violent crimes are committed by recidivists, repeatedly released by the a**hole do gooders who live in wealthy safe towns and aren't victimized by these scumbags, or psychopaths identified from years ago but kept out of institutions for their own safety because of coddling parents and society!

 

[mattyw]

When people are nervous, they tend to react rather than think things through. It is really easy to armchair quaterback this and say "if it were me" but the truth of the matter many people will react differently under stress. I'd tend not to be so critical until you have been in those shoes.

I have been, so do I get to be critical now?

he asked for feedback, I gave him some. No ill intent on my part. If you go into it more educated/prepared you will be more comfortable with your responses

- - - Updated - - -

and then promptly told him that I have an LTC. He asked me what I had, where it was, and why I carry. I thought that it was none of his effing business

you brought upon further questions by giving him information he didn't ask for.

if asked I would be truthful but I won't voluntarily disclose anything

 

[Jason Flare]

I have been, so do I get to be critical now?

he asked for feedback, I gave him some. No ill intent on my part. If you go into it more educated/prepared you will be more comfortable with your responses

Technically you haven't been in his shoes, actually.

 

[jefftk]

I was pulled over speeding on the Pike a while ago, with a Kahr pm9 in my front pocket. when the cop, who happened to be a dickhead, approached the car, I kept my hands at 10 & 2 for his feeling of safety, and then promptly told him that I have an LTC. He asked me what I had, where it was, and why I carry. I thought that it was none of his effing business, but i politely responded with one word, "Protection", and didn't elaborate or try to educate this guy. He took my driver's license and LTC and gave me a ticket, which I later beat in court.

I'm still not sure what to do in the future, should this happen again. I want the cops to feel safe and that I'm being honest and forthcoming, and I'm pretty sure that they know who has what in terms of LTCs and guns, although I feel like it's none of their business if I'm not a criminal, which they also know.

As a last note, most violent crimes are committed by recidivists, repeatedly released by the a**hole do gooders who live in wealthy safe towns and aren't victimized by these scumbags, or psychopaths identified from years ago but kept out of institutions for their own safety because of coddling parents and society!

?

 

[mattyw]

Technically you haven't been in his shoes, actually.

literally speaking, very unlikely unless he goes through my trash/donations or vice versa

 

[whacko]

I have been, so do I get to be critical now?

he asked for feedback, I gave him some. No ill intent on my part. If you go into it more educated/prepared you will be more comfortable with your responses

- - - Updated - - -


you brought upon further questions by giving him information he didn't ask for.

if asked I would be truthful but I won't voluntarily disclose anything

I have not been pulled over since starting to carry daily......but THIS^ is my plan. If the LEO does not ask I'm not volunteering any info as I am not obliged to by any law. If he asks I'll tell him/her.

 

[M1911]

Any suggestions?

Slow down?

 

[ridleyman]

?

read the whole passage, not just those words that get you all excited! in life, there are things that we do out of necessity or politeness, betraying our true feelings, just to get along in society. are you one of these guys who says and does everything he wants to anybody. if so, I admire you. or not.

 

[mattyw]

read the whole passage, not just those words that get you all excited! in life, there are things that we do out of necessity or politeness, betraying our true feelings, just to get along in society. are you one of these guys who says and does everything he wants to anybody. if so, I admire you. or not.

the point is, you willingly gave up information that was none of his business then when he questioned you further you took offense to his question as you perceived it to be none of his business.

I understand how it goes, I used to volunteer way too much information at traffic stops as well, now I pretty much keep my mouth shut and answer very basically

 

[not new guy]

the point is, you willingly gave up information that was none of his business then when he questioned you further you took offense to his question as you perceived it to be none of his business.

"License and registration."
"Hey, I have a license that allows me to carry a gun around with me."
"Oh yeah? Why? What kind of gun do you have?"
"Protection."
"Whatever. Here's a ticket."

If you're starting a conversation about something it's reasonable for the other person to respond to that conversation.

 

[mark056]

the point is, you willingly gave up information that was none of his business then when he questioned you further you took offense to his question as you perceived it to be none of his business.

I understand how it goes, I used to volunteer way too much information at traffic stops as well, now I pretty much keep my mouth shut and answer very basically

It didn't happen to you, the incident is over, maybe you need to worry first and foremost about Matty and quit being so judgmental. (yeah I know I'm being judgmental mea culpa). One thing I've noticed is that you need to work a little harder in the tact and diplomacy department sometimes. You have great idealism, but what is the point of your comments? I think it was a learning experience for the person and sometimes Monday morning quaterbacking tends to alienate rather than do anything positive.

If you want to bicker with someone, you can engage me all day.

 

[DONALDG-HOG]

What town????????????

 

[not new guy]

It didn't happen to you, the incident is over, maybe you need to worry first and foremost about Matty and quit being so judgmental. (yeah I know I'm being judgmental mea culpa). One thing I've noticed is that you need to work a little harder in the tact and diplomacy department sometimes. You have great idealism, but what is the point of your comments? I think it was a learning experience for the person and sometimes Monday morning quaterbacking tends to alienate rather than do anything positive.

If you want to bicker with someone, you can engage me all day.

It sounds like all he needs to do is add "mea culpa" to some of his posts.

 

[mattyw]

It didn't happen to you, the incident is over, maybe you need to worry first and foremost about Matty and quit being so judgmental. (yeah I know I'm being judgmental mea culpa). One thing I've noticed is that you need to work a little harder in the tact and diplomacy department sometimes. You have great idealism, but what is the point of your comments? I think it was a learning experience for the person and sometimes Monday morning quaterbacking tends to alienate rather than do anything positive.

If you want to bicker with someone, you can engage me all day.

just trying to show people the light so they can avoid the same situation again

the couple posters in this thread outside of the OP who shared their run in's with police made statements that contributed to it being anything more than a routine stop. I would recommend against this unless one enjoys lengthy conversations while being cited.
I can only imagine they posted said stories looking for feedback (one specifically asked) so I gave some.
I am not a lawyer or a professional but I have gotten pulled over a bit and I have myself gone from too talkative, too much information guy to a cut and dry, polite but brief and compliant subject.

edit: I also love to discuss/debate/argue. I stare at a computer all day, NES is my sanity.... which is scary

 

[dessert1st]

What town????????????

Going to go out on a limb here.... just an educated guess here.... might be pulling this out of left field here....


but Natick.

 

[not new guy]

I imagine that the lack of a clear definition on something like what qualifies as being within the LTC holder's immediate control could complicate the decision on whether to answer the question (do you have a gun?) truthfully, challenge the question, or just lie.

 

[GJH86]

This thread has the ol shotgun approach. The op clearly stated that he was stopped in Natick for an expired sticker...and that the Leo saw his LTC prompting the line of questioning and strange requests. A lot of conjecture about what the Leo knew or didn't know at the time of the stop. To me it sounds as if he had no idea how to handle the situation. Quite frankly, I agree with other posters. Absent any other factor(s) the best place for both pistols is in the their respective holsters. Training issue here as well as the Leo sounds like he fears guns. Criminals don't admit they are carrying. Ever. FIRST OFF let's be clear, I do not agree with how the NPD Leo handled it...request the weapon? Dumb x 100. This was an inspection sticker stop and nothing else....

A few of you are quoting the 5th, all well and good in the ops case but as Obie1 let you know, there are volumes of case law that state otherwise. Let's slightly twist the facts and look at it. The Leo stopped the op for speeding. While waiting for the info to come back on his MDT he sees the op moving furtively, bending over and to the right as if to hide or retrieve an item(s). The Leo then learns that op has a LTC and calls for back up (potential firearm and furtive movement elevates concern). Back up is 7 minutes away and op still moving around. [aside..the op was hiding his radar detector as advised by another poster, but the Leo doesn't know that]. The Leo expedites his approach to the vehicle to handle the stop and deal with his observations.

The correct action was for the Leo to wait for his buddies unless the op takes action (get out if car etc). When he approaches solo or with fiends the correct action is for the Leo to immediately remove the op from the vehicle due to the potential threat but let's say he does not. Lets just say that the op was not moving around anymore and both hand are on the steering wheel when the Leo approached. It is daylight and visibility is good. When requesting a license and reg he sees the LTC confirming what he knew. The op starts being evasive on the questions asked by the Leo in respect to firearms...can you not see potential issues here? The court would grant an Leo huge leeway in this type of situation...like another poster stated, there may be criminal issues afoot. What happens if this guy just snapped and capped his wife? He need not disclose anything but his actions may justify greater scrutiny and intrusion....wether he likes it or not.

consider two responses: (1) sorry, I was hiding my radar detector as not to insult/aggravate you. I do have a LTC and I am carrying. Most reasonable cops deescalate, investigate/corroborate and move on with that type of honesty.

(2) Am I being detained? I am taking the 5th.... That guy is coming out of the car and both him and it are being searched for weapons once back up gets there....this scenario could go sideways in a hurry. In the end there may be no criminal issue BUT did that person just put his invaluable LTC in jeopardy? Depending on his Chief/licensing authority the ugly word "suitability" could come up. At that point the firearm would be removed and the scene made safe until all info was known. Who knows what happens from there..a good Leo sorts it out and sends the op on his way once it is realized he was hiding a radar detector and not a bazooka. A bad Leo locks the guy up on a trumpeted up charge or via contempt of cop (mostly because they don't know what else to do).

Everything is situational and seldom is any scenario black and white. You can usually tell a fishing expedition vs a valid investigation. I understand the hesitation most of us have when encountered by LE (me too, you never know what you are getting nowadays). Another poster hit the nail on the head; easy to Monday-morning quarterback than to deal with it first hand. I think the op did a fantastic job FYI.

Info: SOME mobile data terminals use a system that show if a registered owner of a vehicle or the person being run has a LTC. Some do not. For me I would have to run the information through dispatch and make a request to look it up. We have several deadspots so the MDTs don't work so well, if at all, and the radios ain't all that now that we have gone to narrow band....sometimes we fly
blind when conducting a stop. It is what it is...