Pulled over while carrying......interesting experience

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rmaclean86 said:
(2) Am I being detained? I am taking the 5th.... That guy is coming out of the car and both him and it are being searched for weapons once back up gets there....this scenario could go sideways in a hurry. In the end there may be no criminal issue BUT did that person just put his invaluable LTC in jeopardy?
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I'm going to ignore the fact you took bits and pieces from every "I got pulled over while carrying" story in this thread, then added some stuff and changed everything...

asking "am I being detained?" is grounds for search and seizure? under what? non-compliance?
again, I am not an expert but this goes against everything I know

the OP handled everything the cop did wrong, perfectly. and I didn't read anyone saying if the cop asks you if you have a gun you ignore him or lie to him. Just that there's no need to willingly supply that information if you aren't asked
 
Why would you volunteer that you have an LTC? Do you also tell the cops you have a library card and a Visa? Unless specifically asked why would you tell them anything. The less said the better. Volunteering that info is tantamount to telling the cops,"Come on in my home and have a look around, I've got nothing to hide".
 
rmaclean86 said:
The correct action was for the Leo to wait for his buddies unless the op takes action (get out if car etc). When he approaches solo or with fiends the correct action is for the Leo to immediately remove the op from the vehicle due to the potential threat.
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Remove a licensed gun owner from a his vehicle is the "correct action?" Really? Dude.

Let's postulate two different car stops, each with a driver carrying a gun. I'll let you guess which is higher risk to the officer:

1) Driver with valid concealed carry license. Officer sees on his screen that the driver is properly licensed. He asks the driver if the he is carrying. The driver says yes.

2) Driver with a criminal record and no license. Officer sees on his screen that the driver is not properly licensed. The officer asks the driver if he has any guns or weapons in the car. The driver says no.

In those scenarios, you would pull driver #1 out of the car because of the "potential threat" but not driver #2.

And people wonder why I recommend that you never volunteer that you are carrying.

Jesus H. Christ.
 
No matty, I provided a scenario that twisted the facts just slightly and demonstrated that things can go sideways in a hurry if certain aspects are met. You certainly do not have to volunteer anything. MGL is very specific as to what is required at a traffic stop (just a license and registration) unless other factors exist. A few other posters suggest that blanket statements are okay. I am articulating that situational factors exist...if it's a fishing expedition go shit in your hat Mr Leo. If it isn't, well, it can get awfully complicated from there. My responses was not aimed at you but several posts in the thread along similar lines...and I agreed that the op did well given the circumstances.
 
You didn't read the fact pattern; if an officer has a concern for his safety his first action is to remove the person(s) involved. If he dicks around at the window and removes them later (without justification, think a stalling technique before back up arrives) the court states that there was no real exigency as he really did not fear for his safety. I am not saying that a person with an LTC is a threat..they generally are not. The point was to show that, if you read the fact pattern, that furtive movement, an LTC and evasive questions could lead to a problematic encounter. Quoted me out of context, that's fine. The press pulls that shit all the time. You read and heard what you wanted to read and hear.

In your skimpy scenarios neither person is coming out of the car lawfully or at all. It was not the mere carrying of the gun. OTHER FACTORS must be present. Why were they stopped? What observations were made post stop? Any abnormal behavior associated with a threat or risk to the safety of the public of the involved officer? No? Then no exit order... if the criminal makes no furtive movements or does nothing else criminal how am I to know he has a piece? I wouldn't. He wins that round. The constitution protects them too. I have probably let 100 guns and 20 pounds of coke go away because I had no reason to intrude. They don't pull it, I don't see it...bye bye.

Again; you do not have to volunteer a damn thing other than a license and registration UNLESS other factors exist. I don't even ask if dudes/dudettes have LTCs...if they are not acting up and I stopped them for some civil infraction then I do not care. If I see a gun I demand they produce the LTC per GL. That's it....and most of the time if they have it in hand and produce it I just hand it back once I see on its face that it's valid.
 
GaryO said:
Why would you volunteer that you have an LTC? Do you also tell the cops you have a library card and a Visa? Unless specifically asked why would you tell them anything. The less said the better. Volunteering that info is tantamount to telling the cops,"Come on in my home and have a look around, I've got nothing to hide".
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pretty sure they know anyways, and as I said earlier it's better to be honest and forthcoming so the cop knows we're on the same team. if he asked to take it (I carry condition 3) I'm not sure what I'd do. and I really admire the guy in the video to keep the cops in check, but what good is not telling them about my LTC in a pull over situation.

btw, LTC holders commit fewer crimes statistically than the police!!!
 
new guy said:
"License and registration."
"Hey, I have a license that allows me to carry a gun around with me."
"Oh yeah? Why? What kind of gun do you have?"
"Protection."
"Whatever. Here's a ticket."

If you're starting a conversation about something it's reasonable for the other person to respond to that conversation.
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It is, but disclosing you're carrying in a non "must notify" state (which every state in NE is) is no different than someone sayiing "Officer, I'm really into midget porn, I thought you should know this". It's going to evoke a WTF reaction of some level or another.

Licensed/lawful gun carriers are not a typical part of the "LE traffic stop script" in the northeast. When you cause things to go off script, they can go in any direction.

-Mike
 
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ridleyman said:
pretty sure they know anyways, and as I said earlier it's better to be honest and forthcoming so the cop knows we're on the same team. if he asked to take it (I carry condition 3) I'm not sure what I'd do. and I really admire the guy in the video to keep the cops in check, but what good is not telling them about my LTC in a pull over situation.

btw, LTC holders commit fewer crimes statistically than the police!!!
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1. "so the cop knows we're on the same team"!???????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow......just.......wow.....holy hell I don't know where to start so I just wont.

2. "what good is not telling them about my LTC in a pull over situation?" This goes along the lines with "what good is not telling them I smoked a joint when I was in High School". If you are being pulled over for a traffic violation what does you haveing an LTC and a fire arm on your hip have to do with your expired inspection sticker? Plus........as drgrant has put out to all...there is no binding law that says you HAVE to tell the LEO you have a fire arm on you so........keep it to yourself IMO unless asked. Simple......easy.....LEGAL

3. "if he asked to take it not sure what id do" Well if you listen to point number 2 in my post you wont have to worry about it 9 times out of 10 if pulled over.
 
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ridleyman said:
pretty sure they know anyways, and as I said earlier it's better to be honest and forthcoming so the cop knows we're on the same team. if he asked to take it (I carry condition 3) I'm not sure what I'd do. and I really admire the guy in the video to keep the cops in check, but what good is not telling them about my LTC in a pull over situation.

btw, LTC holders commit fewer crimes statistically than the police!!!
Click to expand...

I'm not on the same team. I am a lawfully licensed gun owner and not an instrument of state oppression.
 
Billsail said:
This has been posted many times in numerous threads:

If asked, do NOT lie.

If not asked, STFU!
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Agreed. And in this case the officer specifically asked. The op may have offered more details about the weapon than necessary but he was required to acknowledge the weapon in the vehicle.

All this posturing about offering too much info is moot in this case.
 
Billsail said:
This has been posted many times in numerous threads:

If asked, do NOT lie.

If not asked, STFU!
Click to expand...

Just a hypothetical situation, but what if you're not 100% sure/confident that the handgun you're transporting is at that moment legally stored or otherwise within your direct control? Answering "yes" to "do you have a gun with you right now?" when it's in a bag in the back seat, or in an unlocked range bag or something seems like it would be asking for trouble. I'm not saying that lying is the answer, but if you're caught in a situation where you might be breaking the law - or close enough to it that you're going to get handcuffed while the new guy calls his supervisor - you should think twice about hanging yourself.
 
new guy said:
Just a hypothetical situation, but what if you're not 100% sure/confident that the handgun you're transporting is at that moment legally stored or otherwise within your direct control? Answering "yes" to "do you have a gun with you right now?" when it's in a bag in the back seat, or in an unlocked range bag or something seems like it would be asking for trouble. I'm not saying that lying is the answer, but if you're caught in a situation where you might be breaking the law - or close enough to it that you're going to get handcuffed while the new guy calls his supervisor - you should think twice about hanging yourself.
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not a lawyer here, but I think that would be a good time to shut it down "am I being detained?" "am I free to go?" they would need a warrant to search to find your possibly illegally stored firearm.

lying is bad, invoking your rights will be irritating but legally less bad in my opinion
 
Billsail said:
This has been posted many times in numerous threads:

If asked, do NOT lie.

If not asked, STFU!
Click to expand...

I was in a minor fender bender on the Pike and the police were called. I was young and dumb and had my LTC right up front in my wallet. So we were standing on the shoulder giving him our drivers licenses and statements.

Trooper asks "Is that's a license to carry?" I respond "Yes it is." Of course the other guy in the accident from Cambridge looked like I just decapitated a child right then and there with my bare hands. Trooper asks if I had a gun "in the car." I honestly answer "No." And we continued on.

Phrasing fail. Risky, but honest.
 
CobaltBlueSteel said:
I was in a minor fender bender on the Pike and the police were called. I was young and dumb and had my LTC right up front in my wallet. So we were standing on the shoulder giving him our drivers licenses and statements.

Trooper asks "Is that's a license to carry?" I respond "Yes it is." Of course the other guy in the accident from Cambridge looked like I just decapitated a child right then and there with my bare hands. Trooper asks if I had a gun "in the car." I honestly answer "No." And we continued on.

Phrasing fail. Risky, but honest.
Click to expand...

Dude reps inbound! Out ****ing standing!
 
new guy said:
Just a hypothetical situation, but what if you're not 100% sure/confident that the handgun you're transporting is at that moment legally stored or otherwise within your direct control?
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Not the question that you asked, but I suggest that you be sure before you starting driving. It if isn't in a holster on your person, then lock it up.

- - - Updated - - -

Da_lucche said:
Why do some of you guys offer up you have an LTC and carrying when you haven't even been asked?
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I don't.

You will just cause more problems for yourselves that way.
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And that is exactly why I don't.
 
This may have been said already, but giving thought to how many times I have heard of someone impersonating a officer,

and the increase of undercover cars in the area,
Giving a firearm to anyone I did not known, especially during a simple traffic stop,

seems like not giving up your firearm and keeping your hands visibly shown, would be the only safe option for everyone
 
To the OP, you handled that pretty well inmy opinion, well done. Question, your best guess as to the age of the officer? And im assuming male officer ?
 
i liked when Ray and I got pulled over heading to the gun show.... statie stopped him, saw the gun stickers on the back of his truck and was asking questions from behind the B-piller, never crossing the plane of the driver's side window..... i felt like saying "hey buddy, you don't have to stretch, anything in this vehicle will slice through that b-pillar like it's not even there..."

but..... during traffic stops passengers need to keep their mouths shut, so i didn't say anything... :)
 
I didn't actually mean stop talking by mentioning the 5th Amendment. I meant stop participating in playing 20 questions. Book me on the stop or call your supervisor. At that point I'm in it for the long game. Either stop fishing or waste a bunch of time. The real trick (and this is a problem with some) is not pissing them off too bad so they are willing to make the sacrifice...
 
gearjunky13 said:
This may have been said already, but giving thought to how many times I have heard of someone impersonating a officer,

and the increase of undercover cars in the area,
Giving a firearm to anyone I did not known, especially during a simple traffic stop,

seems like not giving up your firearm and keeping your hands visibly shown, would be the only safe option for everyone
Click to expand...

As M1911 suggested, in this case he was in a regular marked Explorer with all the bells & whistles and a German Shepherd in the back. That and we were in broad daylight, in public, on a very busy street at the height of rush hour.

GPP said:
To the OP, you handled that pretty well inmy opinion, well done. Question, your best guess as to the age of the officer? And im assuming male officer ?
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If I had to guess I'd say mid-late 30's, possibly early 40's. It was a bit tough because the sun was directly behind him. I had to crane my neck awkwardly to get a clear view from the shadow he was casting.
 
M1911 said:
If he is in a marked cruiser, I'm not worried about him being an impostor.
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Hey that guy in NH that they had a BOLO out on recently stole like TWO cop cars... you never know!!!! ANYTHING could happen!!!!! ZOMG! /sarc

-Mike
 
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