Pulled over while carrying......interesting experience

[Jason Flare]

Is the argument for telling a cop you have a LTC that the cop already knows? Did I really read that or did I imagine it?

 

[Supermoto]

This has been posted many times in numerous threads:

If asked, do NOT lie.

If not asked, STFU!

Are you required by law to answer truthfully?

 

[Jason Flare]

Are you required by law to answer truthfully?

Yes. But as I've told my kids, "I will never lie to you but listen very carefully to what I say." Also, see the post about getting into a minor fender-bender on the pike. The guy was asked if the gun was in the car. He answered truthfully that the gun wasn't in the car.

ETA: See post number 168 by CobaltBlueSteel.

 

[TBalls]

Are you required by law to answer truthfully?

My understanding has always been that unless you are officially under investigation or are suspected of committing some crime then it is not technically illegal to lie to the police. I'm not sure there's much to gain in a situation such as the one here by being dishonest. Obviously there's always the 5th, I suppose.

Someone please correct any errors I have made as IANAL.

 

[mattyw]

Are you required by law to answer truthfully?

you aren't required to answer at all, so not sure if you legally have to be thruthful... but anything you do answer with can and will be used against you.
so if you were found to be lying about something, and then get charged with a crime, I imagine they can get you with a false statement or misleading a police officer or hindering an investigation, obstructing maybe

just guessing though because I admittedly don't know much about those charges

 

[not new guy]

My understanding has always been that unless you are officially under investigation or are suspected of committing some crime then it is not technically illegal to lie to the police. I'm not sure there's much to gain in a situation such as the one here by being dishonest. Obviously there's always the 5th, I suppose.

Someone please correct any errors I have made as IANAL.

I think they have to be investigating a crime, which a traffic stop on its own doesn't amount to, but it varies from state to state. Lying to fed cops is a whole other story (don't do it).

 

[StevieP]

Amazing this thread reached 180+ posts in less than a day. Good (interesting, at least) topic.

I know that when asked to produce your LTC, you must. But what of the officer's request to hand over the gun? Is that a legitimate request from the officer? Is an LTC holder legally required to hand over the gun? Based on the OP's experience, I imagine not.

What *is* the right/legal way to handle this situation?

 

[TBalls]

Amazing this thread reached 180+ posts in less than a day. Good (interesting, at least) topic. Woohoo! Personal record!

I know that when asked to produce your LTC, you must. But what of the officer's request to hand over the gun? Is that a legitimate request from the officer? Is an LTC holder legally required to hand over the gun? Based on the OP's experience, I imagine not. Likewise

What *is* the right/legal way to handle this situation?

I'm sure there are multitude of legal ways. The "right" way (as illustrated in this thread) is very much subject to opinion and frankly may vary somewhat depending on the specific scenario. I think I was fortunate in that despite the request, the officer seemed to respect my decision not to comply. I stated my feelings calmly and rationally and made it about mutual safety rather than a "Don't Tread on Me!" type of attitude. Obviously just like any encounter, the wrong person on the wrong day will make your life difficult. I did not want the situation to escalate and did what I could to ensure that with both my demeanor and my actions (i.e. not acquiescing).

 

[gearjunky13]

If he is in a marked cruiser, I'm not worried about him being an impostor.

I get what your saying about this stop, but still there are other situation that could warrant concern about who was actuality pulling you over,

There are some realy crazy people out there, had this been on a back road at night, possibly away from a known area, my concern level would rise drastically

 

[Cap]

They can ask, but you don't have to answer. But don't lie.

Officer: Any weapons in the vehicle?
You:
A) Yes
B) Am I being detained or am I free to go?
C) Say nothing

Those are your options.

 

[mattyw]

Amazing this thread reached 180+ posts in less than a day. Good (interesting, at least) topic.

I know that when asked to produce your LTC, you must. But what of the officer's request to hand over the gun? Is that a legitimate request from the officer? Is an LTC holder legally required to hand over the gun? Based on the OP's experience, I imagine not.

What *is* the right/legal way to handle this situation?

not sure of the legalities but if an officer asks for my gun I would likely try what the OP did, if he insisted then I will inform him he will have to unholster it himself as i do not feel safe doing so in front of him. It's his move from there.

probably be a good idea to record at this point if you aren't already in case somehow someone winds up shot

 

[Supermoto]

They can ask, but you don't have to answer. But don't lie.

Officer: Any weapons in the vehicle?
You:
A) Yes
B) Am I being detained or am I free to go?
C) Say nothing

Those are your options.

Is that personal opinion or based on case law?

I'm not asking for what might be the right thing to do, just if you are required by law to be truthful

 

[gearjunky13]

All so thinking if I handed over a firearm to an officer, with the off chance he was stupid enough to negligently discharge it for what ever reason

I would not think it would go well for me at this point, or that i would see that firearm again through an investigation, even with no fault of my own

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

I prefer condition 5. Trigger lock installed, pistol locked in safe, ammunition locked up at the other end of the house.

When I encounter a BG at the milkshake drive through I'll just ask him if he minds waiting 20 minutes while I run home.

I guess I just realized I don't live in fear.

condition 6....i just leave the slide at home and take the frame

 

[Nick Fury]

I'm sure there are multitude of legal ways. The "right" way (as illustrated in this thread) is very much subject to opinion and frankly may vary somewhat depending on the specific scenario. I think I was fortunate in that despite the request, the officer seemed to respect my decision not to comply. I stated my feelings calmly and rationally and made it about mutual safety rather than a "Don't Tread on Me!" type of attitude. Obviously just like any encounter, the wrong person on the wrong day will make your life difficult. I did not want the situation to escalate and did what I could to ensure that with both my demeanor and my actions (i.e. not acquiescing).

The right way is one you easily walk away from. And you did that. Kids in the car? Say no more. The whole attempted disarmament thing is disturbing however. A real head scratcher. Glad it ended well and very glad you posted it.

 

[Nick Fury]

condition 6....i just leave the slide at home and take the frame

In the absence of local firearm knowledge I have basically rolled this way. It made me feel better anyways...

 

[jcetto0351]

condition 6....i just leave the slide at home and take the frame

I carry in condition 7... I leave the gun unloaded in the safe and carry around my iPhone with NES set as my internet homepage

 

[mibro]

This may have been said already, but giving thought to how many times I have heard of someone impersonating a officer,

and the increase of undercover cars in the area,
Giving a firearm to anyone I did not known, especially during a simple traffic stop,

seems like not giving up your firearm and keeping your hands visibly shown, would be the only safe option for everyone

At the risk of being called a troll - again - it is not up to you. You have no say in the matter. If the LEO wants your weapon he will take it one way or another. My preference would be to let him take it the easy way. If you insist on doing it the hard way, well, we will be reading about you here I guess.

As to whether this is legal or perhaps even a violation of your rights and grounds for compensation, that is a matter for the courts at a later date.

 

[Jsfitzgerald85]

I carry in condition 7... I leave the gun unloaded in the safe and carry around my iPhone with NES set as my internet homepage

WINNING!!!!!

 

[Billsail]

Is that personal opinion or based on case law?

I'm not asking for what might be the right thing to do, just if you are required by law to be truthful

Technically, I suppose not, but it may get you in a world of sh!t, if you do. Someone posted that lying to the Feds is a crime. I'm not sure. We need a LEO to clarify.

 

[GaryO]

All so thinking if I handed over a firearm to an officer, with the off chance he was stupid enough to negligently discharge it for what ever reason

I would not think it would go well for me at this point, or that i would see that firearm again through an investigation, even with no fault of my own

How many times have you watched Cops and they cant even figure out how to release the magazine in a pistol. It doesn't give me a lot of faith in them.
I'm not a cop hater but just generally mistrustful of people over all.

 

[KMM696]

At the risk of being called a troll - again - it is not up to you. You have no say in the matter. If the LEO wants your weapon he will take it one way or another. My preference would be to let him take it the easy way. If you insist on doing it the hard way, well, we will be reading about you here I guess.

As to whether this is legal or perhaps even a violation of your rights and grounds for compensation, that is a matter for the courts at a later date.

Each one of us has every say in the matter, and it is entirely up to that individual. You may believe such actions to be pointless, foolhardy, dangerous and counterproductive, etc. - and certainly few would argue that such actions would not be "the hard way". But it is up to that individual - not you, the LEO, the judge, prosecutor, jury or the witnesses unfortunate enough to see such a shitshow to determine their own course of action.


And that, sir, is why you come across as a troll.




At least to me.....

 

[GPP]

Technically, I suppose not, but it may get you in a world of sh!t, if you do. Someone posted that lying to the Feds is a crime. I'm not sure. We need a LEO to clarify.

We get lied to all the time. No crime for lying to the cops. This Natick cop ( just my opinion of course) is a scaredy cat. He had his bluff called, and gave the lame dont wanna get shot in the head comment. We are taught from day one to think that everyone has a gun or a weapon or a pair of sweat socks thay they want to kill us with, so you act accordingly. This is why im curious as to this guys age. Once its established that there is a valid LTC present, theLEO cant confiscate your rosco under the officer safety umbrella. This, of course is in a perfect world. How each individual deals with his/her own scenario is gonna be different every time.

 

[dessert1st]

Hey that guy in NH that they had a BOLO out on recently stole like TWO cop cars... you never know!!!! ANYTHING could happen!!!!! ZOMG! /sarc

-Mike

IVE SEENT A CRIMINAL IMPERSONATING A C0P WIT MY OWN 2 EYES!!!!



- - - Updated - - -

We get lied to all the time. No crime for lying to the cops. This Natick cop ( just my opinion of course) is a scaredy cat. He had his bluff called, and gave the lame dont wanna get shot in the head comment. We are taught from day one to think that everyone has a gun or a weapon or a pair of sweat socks thay they want to kill us with, so you act accordingly. This is why im curious as to this guys age. Once its established that there is a valid LTC present, theLEO cant confiscate your rosco under the officer safety umbrella. This, of course is in a perfect world. How each individual deals with his/her own scenario is gonna be different every time.

What are you, a cop or sum'in? MOLON LABE YOU LAME MORON!

 

[mark056]

IVE SEENT A CRIMINAL IMPERSONATING A C0P WIT MY OWN 2 EYES!!!! YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaQM24zHamA - - - Updated - - - What are you, a cop or sum'in? MOLON LABE YOU LAME MORON!

I love it when you guys confuse ideology with reality. GPP is talking real world, not Gadsden Flag waving stuff. He's telling it like it is. If you want a traffic stop to be your line in the sand or if that's the beginning of "go-time" your call. A cop can always find a reason to jam you up. You may prevail in court, but there is still the issue of suitability between yourself and your Chief.

Never volunteer information either. If you are carrying in Mass you have no legal obligation to inform the police. If you are asked to get out of the car, then and only then should you inform the LEO and say something to the effect "I have an unrestricted Mass LTC and I am carrying it. How do we want to proceed officer?"

 

[mibro]

Each one of us has every say in the matter, and it is entirely up to that individual. You may believe such actions to be pointless, foolhardy, dangerous and counterproductive, etc. - and certainly few would argue that such actions would not be "the hard way". But it is up to that individual - not you, the LEO, the judge, prosecutor, jury or the witnesses unfortunate enough to see such a shitshow to determine their own course of action.

And that, sir, is why you come across as a troll.

At least to me.....

And it seems so obvious to me. When carrying and pulled over by a LEO, you may state an opinion, express a preference even, but you are not making the decisions.

So stating something factually correct but that violates the NES code is trolling. That's my takeaway.

 

[Cap]

At the risk of being called a troll - again - it is not up to you. You have no say in the matter. If the LEO wants your weapon he will take it one way or another. My preference would be to let him take it the easy way. If you insist on doing it the hard way, well, we will be reading about you here I guess.

As to whether this is legal or perhaps even a violation of your rights and grounds for compensation, that is a matter for the courts at a later date.

Do you also invite LEOs into your home?

We get lied to all the time. No crime for lying to the cops.

Uh, I know you are an LEO, but I'm fairly certain if you are conducting a criminal investigation someone who lied to you could be charged with
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter268/Section13b

http://www.suffolkdistrictattorney....ner-pleads-guilty-under-intimidation-statute/

O’Rourke would have proven that Donovan lied to Boston Police detectives when he told them he didn’t know MARIO MENDEZ (D.O.B. 1/2/76), who was later identified as the alleged shooter, when they interviewed him in the hours and days following the shooting.


O’Rourke would also have proven that Donovan instructed a photographer who was taking pictures inside the club prior to the shooting to destroy any photographs of Mendez, including one that showed Donovan and Mendez together arm in arm.


Both offenses are covered under Chapter 268, Section 13B, of the Massachusetts General Laws. That statute provides criminal penalties for any person who willfully misleads a police investigator or harasses a potential witness “with the intent to impede, obstruct, delay, harm, punish or otherwise interfere thereby with a criminal investigation.”

 

[mibro]

Do you also invite LEOs into your home?

Straw man and not relevant to this situation.

 

[Quiet]

the OP handled everything the cop did wrong, perfectly. and I didn't read anyone saying if the cop asks you if you have a gun you ignore him or lie to him. Just that there's no need to willingly supply that information if you aren't asked

This

I'm really into midget porn

Out of context quote aside,
I still can't get over a cop asking someone to draw his gun....

If it's a bad guy who is going to "shoot him in the head" while he was writing a ticket, you're giving the bad guy a complete advantage of reaching for and removing his gun

If it is a good guy ltc (which he claimed he saw) holder, there's no point.

What in the world is this cop thinking?

Can you (or anyone) answer this? Is this actually part of training (as the cop also claimed) anywhere?

 

[OfficerObie59]

What are you, a cop or sum'in? MOLON LABE YOU LAME MORON!

You stay classy.