Sure looks like it’s dropping from 12 to me
View: https://youtube.com/shorts/e_a118LcLqg?si=s0-XcZbZMnlSa5dF
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Pistol Red Dot Transition Advice
- Thread starter jron
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View: https://youtube.com/shorts/e_a118LcLqg?si=s0-XcZbZMnlSa5dF
SJan
NES Member
That shows a slow practice draw, and a half speed or maybe 3/4 speed example. There are countless video examples of him where it is clear that the muzzle is elevated during the draw, but these are all moderate speed examples. To go full send there is no wasted movement, like elevating the muzzle over the target to view the "dot drop down from 12" .
When he draws at full speed it's clearly not the case. Set the playback speed to .25 and watch. This can be seen with most of his videos when the draw speed is super fast.
View: https://youtu.be/_V6a5oDCor0?si=W8Eraop-dY2r8xkI
Not saying Scott isn't a good shooter or a fast shooter or a good instructor, he is all of those. I'm just saying that the drop down from 12 thing that he preaches isn't actually what he himself is doing when going full speed.
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That’s a more recent video of his, he only just recently started implementing and teaching a new draw in his classes in addition to the drop from 12. The draw you see in that video is the escalator draw which he got from Donovan Moore.
Here is another video of his drop from 12 draw going full send. Slow it down, you can see the gun drop onto the target from above ever so slightly.
View: https://youtube.com/shorts/hn9kP8Ii2Vc?si=nwZEcvUTCM4ObdyM
AllaSnackbah
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Everything @M1911 @Supermoto and @SJan said for sure.
The more dryfire reps you put in the quicker it will come.
The more dryfire reps you put in the quicker it will come.
It's all about building your index, both with irons and with a dot, imho. You have to be able to look at a spot and bring the gun straight to it, the sights or dot have to just appear over your chosen spot without you having to make corrections. This takes hundreds, if not thousands, of dry fire presentations to solidify.
I spent a year working on my index with iron sights and when I transitioned to a red dot it was pretty easy - I was already able to point the gun at the target effortlessly. I think I occluded the dot within five minutes and that's how it has stayed ever since - I even shot a match with it occluded recently and did well. Strong hand only presentations took a little work with the dot and now I'm working on hard leans, as my index really worsens on those.
TL;DR get in the habit of doing a couple dozen presentations daily.
I spent a year working on my index with iron sights and when I transitioned to a red dot it was pretty easy - I was already able to point the gun at the target effortlessly. I think I occluded the dot within five minutes and that's how it has stayed ever since - I even shot a match with it occluded recently and did well. Strong hand only presentations took a little work with the dot and now I'm working on hard leans, as my index really worsens on those.
TL;DR get in the habit of doing a couple dozen presentations daily.
I wouldn’t say the draw is new per se, but it’s definitely a more recent thing that Scott has only just started implementing in his courses. Just skip to 13:15 - 16:20 in this podcast where he talks about Donovan introducing him to the draw and the differences between his draw and Donovan’s.
View: https://youtu.be/Ez1oJnOr9YQ?si=eVjIlxYaLLMJ7o0T
There are some instructors that have to give a name to a technique in order to claim to have something unique. And then some students think they have learned some secret squirrel technique.
Now let me get back to training for a Critical Dynamic Incident
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
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If you don't keep coming up with new and confusing names how can you charge more money
People take classes from this guy?
Did people teach muzzle over the target then down with irons, of course not. Who in their right mind would want to mess up your index during the presentation. Why would you do it with a dot. Escalator, elevator.. stop with the stupid names.
I lost any interest in taking a class with Scott after he debated Ben Stoeger a couple of months ago. He straight up admitted that he advises students to take a class with Ben or another high caliber instructor to learn more advanced things. The problem I see with that is that it requires you to unlearn what Scott just taught you! What's the point of learning to drop the dot into your line of sight if you then have to forget it and learn to draw straight to your line of sight from the holster? Why waste time learning something that's inefficient just to have to learn something different afterwards? Why not just start with the correct technique from the get go?
Exactly. Thanks for the training ruts that I have to spend even more money and time to correct because you wanted some gimmick so people that didn't know better would take your class.
I think I found it, can you confirm if this is the one:
View: https://rumble.com/v36omr6-xray-alpha-live-june-28-2023-wben-stoeger-and-scott-jedlinski-understanding.html
DarthRevan
NES Member
I haven’t shot it with irons installed yet but it’s a bit of a learning curve for sure. Once I can see the dot it’s awesome but I’m finding myself searching for a second or two to see it after initial draw.
I’m hoping once I get the irons on I can figure it out a little faster.
I’m hoping once I get the irons on I can figure it out a little faster.
He’s the dude that’s always on Primary and Secondary, right? I never liked him as he always interjected into things outside his lane and would just speculate.
I don’t think getting the irons on will help, personal opinion.
What helped me was staying target focused throughout my presentation and just punching the pistol straight out. Once I stopped looking at the pistol/optic to try to find the dot, I just started seeing the dot on target when I presented. But, that’s just what worked for me. Mileage may vary.
Also, that slide looks nice.
Focus on your target and bring your dot to the target, and practice your transitions by getting your eye to the next target before the gun. It all clicks I train people for steel challenge and the best students are the ones with no experience.
DarthRevan
NES Member
Overall I’d agree but it doesn’t line up with some of the frame chamfers and it nags what little ocd I do have.
I might sell it after I send out the old slide to be milled.
You need to work on your index. Iron sights are just going to cause you to focus on them and not the target.
allen-1
NES Member
My dot competition guns don't have iron sights on them. It's all muscle memory, practice, repetition. Set up an index card in a hallway, go either from a low ready or from holster at about 20 feet and just practice. You should look at the target and bring the gun up to shooting position and put the dot on the target. Do it over and over and over until it's just natural.
It took me probably six months of daily dry fire to find that dot consistently. Now, it's just there.
My carry gun that has a dot on it has a front sight, (no rear sight), because it's my carry gun - and if the dot goes out, I want some means of aiming it. I typically practice with that gun once a month or so, very limited practice because it's substantially the same platform as one of my comp guns. When I practice with it, I use the dot first, and then I generally fire a couple rounds with the dot turned off. The POI is much lower than the POA, so I have to remember that if I'm forced to use the front iron sight, to aim high.
Rick O'Shea
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Irons on a dot gun are like tits on a bull
Check out Modern Samurai on Youtube, his early instructional videos are great
and Scott is one of the masters at Red Dot. During covid a range safety guy at
White Birch turned me on to him. It's going to take a minute but your speed, once you've
put in a month or two just practicing his (Scot's) acquisition technique I don't think you'll go back
to irons, in fact your iron sight speed will improve also. I'm and old guy and shot irons
my whole life. I LOVE how fast target acquisition is now!
and Scott is one of the masters at Red Dot. During covid a range safety guy at
White Birch turned me on to him. It's going to take a minute but your speed, once you've
put in a month or two just practicing his (Scot's) acquisition technique I don't think you'll go back
to irons, in fact your iron sight speed will improve also. I'm and old guy and shot irons
my whole life. I LOVE how fast target acquisition is now!
That is disappointing.
Makes it harder (IMO) to search for topics at a later date.
I've DM'd Mike Pannone about the situation and he said he was working on a solution.
I think Craig Douglas, Paul Howe, and a few others do a better job at it.
allen-1
NES Member
That "acquisition technique" is arguably questionable.
You don't want to "cast" or "bowl" your dot to the target, you simply want to acquire it - and quickly.
Shooting at speed is all about economy of motion. Deliberately adding two extra movements to your draw -- 1) elevate muzzle and 2) lower muzzle -- will be a lot slower. And then you'll have to unlearn that training scar.
I'm sorry, but Modern Samurai's technique is moronically stupid. Don't do it. Don't listen to the guy because he's teaching crap.
I'm sorry, but Modern Samurai's technique is moronically stupid. Don't do it. Don't listen to the guy because he's teaching crap.
