Mind your own business or get involved?

[Blitz1]

I'm talking about people in need, seeing someone getting there ass kicked hard. (McDonalds Milford incident)

A neighbor, acquaintance, stranger in need? Do you help them?

It's a fine line. Or is it really grey/gray?

I've had times in my life I've been faced with this decision, sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Where do you draw the line?

I'm not going to present "for instance scenarios" here because they are too many to list.

My question is:

What is the point that you react?

Do you help or not?

 

[S. Kelly]

Always call 911, get some help rolling, then try to help. Calling 911 makes you a witness/victim. It counts, makes you look like a responsible citizen vs. someone who jumped in.

 

[Blitz1]

Always call 911, get some help rolling, then try to help. Calling 911 makes you a witness/victim. It counts, makes you look like a responsible citizen vs. someone who jumped in.

When seconds count...

 

[M1911]

My standard response would be to dial 911 and be a good witness. Are there some situations where I would intervene? Yes. But there is no clear line.

 

[Blitz1]

My standard response would be to dial 911 and be a good witness. Are there some situations where I would intervene? Yes. But there is no clear line.

I understand that, like I said it's a grey/gray area. If someone is getting his/her head kicked in then what?

By default, I'll be a good witness and call 911, giving the first responders as much useful information as possible so that when they get there they aren't blind to what's going on.

I admit, however, that I never want to be a witness to a murder or a rape, or anything else like that. It doesn't mean I'd get involved necessarily, but I'd be more inclined to, than say, witnessing a fight in a parking lot.

You're right in a way, I wouldn't get involved in a parking lot fight.

However it may be different when you see one girl getting pummed by her BF, do you stop it or wait for the police?

Keep in mind I'm not talking about deadly force per se.

My point is that there is no time, you have to make a choice.

 

[Snapshot]

I once saw a guy on the ground being kicked by a group of teens (16 or 17 years old if I had to guess). Most of the kids were aiming for his body but one was aiming for his head and he was winding up for all he was worth. There is no doubt in my mind that they could have killed him. At the time, I was in shock. It took me a little while to realize that I had to do something but there wasn't anything I could do. I didn't have an LTC at the time and I sure as heck wasn't going to go up against a gang of punks without something to even the odds. So all I could do was watch. There is much more to this story but they never caught the kids so I won't be putting the rest of the info on a public forum.

Had I been carrying, I would have used it, at least on the guy who was aiming for the head, maybe even the others if they didn't stop after the first shot.

 

[Palladin]

I would call 911...make them aware I had called. Take descriptions & vehicles info.
If a male was pummeling a female, I would probably attempt to stop it. A multiple on one also....it only takes one or two good shots from a shod foot (a felony) to kill someone.


each situation has it's own scenerio, each evolving by seconds.

just remember, especially on a multiple confrontation...the second you fire that 1st shot, all you're going to see is a**h***s & elbows running in various directions, and you're the one standing there when the law shows up.

 

[FhvnLT4A]

Just an IDEA .. but perhaps and effective distrtaction.... People in fights tend to have tunnel vision right?? ( Dave Ks Book is GREAT< I remember this) So, lets say you do come upon the parking lot fight. Can you get to your car and blow the horn?? Loud noises attract attention... might be just enough for people to see whats going on and be more witnesses, or for the offenders to take pause and see that they are indeed being watched. The fight in McDonalds?? Grab a stack of trays and throw em so it makes noise.... get people looking in that direction and get the perps attention ??

Unarmed 1vs 1 in a secluded areaa... thats frickin dangerous territory... This perps already amped up and kickin ass on the only person you could count on for backup if he decides its your turn. 911 early, and I would even say leave the phone on... let the dispatcher hear and RECORD everything thats going on.

 

[Martlet]

I will ALWAYS help. I believe it's a social obligation.

 

[bggsp]

Yeah, and before shots, a little mace/pepper spay may do some good. Especially with the crowd.

 

[06LemansC6]

As many have said it's a fine line, and must be assessed based on the individual situation.

Personally I think you should always call 911 first. If someone is clearly in danger I think it should be your duty to help. I also think more should be done to not only legally protect citizens that help, but also encourage them to do so.

If this question was asked 60 years ago, I think the people too afraid to step in would be far and few between. Now the "don't get involved, it's not my problem" mentality is the norm. [sad2]

 

[Raoul Duke]

Call 911 first...

Then help. It's what I would want someone to do for me.

 

[HKdrummer]

I have had the "pleasure" of stepping in the middle of several fights, mostly in night clubs and music venues where its been my "job" to do so. However one instance I remember more than any, I was instructed not to by my boss. Three dudes were just about killing this one guy and I stood by while others called 911. To this day it kills me and sickens me that I didn't step in, even though I probablly would have been the one to get stomped. Luckily he mustered up the stamina to get up and run.

Problem is now a days people look the other way with the "not my problem attitude". ALL of my friends have that attitude and always ask me why I get involved. simple answer to them is, how would you feel if it was you getting stomped, you'd hope someone would help you wouldn't you? I wouldn't want it on my shoulders if someone was killed or badly beaten.

 

[Veritas Aequitas]

I got involved once back in 84. A guy was beating the shit out of his girlfriend and she was screaming for help. My 3 friends told me to mind my own business, but the girl was being dragged into a car and she was screaming that he was going to kill her (no shit) We got into it and during the struggle he slipped and landed face first on a curb, damn near knocked out ever one of his teeth. The cops showed up and he was arrested. Several days later I was arrested for assault and battery and had to pay for all his dental work. The chick turned against me and said that they were just having an argument and I got involved. 2 years probation and 3900.00 worth of dental work, The judge even said that he believed it to be BS, but based on the "sworn" testimony of the girl, I was found guilty. Would I do it again?? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and we'll see what happens

 

[wolf223]

I will draw my light saber, push "them" off using the force and check the "victim"






all joking aside, I'd help, assuming it's NOT two crack heads or thugs fighting or a 50 sack of yayo in Lynn, within an alley.

this is why I am such a big fan of baseball bats.

 

[suicide 7]

I'd help depending on who I was with (my friends or myself, yes....my 16 month old son I'd call 911)...for the same reasons I joined the Army. I would want someone to help me or one of my loved ones.

 

[ShootinFoodie]

First, call the fuzz. Second, watch as much as possible to give a good account and provide detailed descriptions. Third, wait.

The only point at which I would get involved is if it appears me or my family is in harm's way.

If it looks like I am about to witness a cold-blooded murder, and there is not more than one BG(not that you can always tell), I might, repeat MIGHT get involved.

I am not trained, nor am I large enough, to effectively restrain a person. I am also only a mediocre fighter. I am only trained to fire my gun safely, accurately, and well.

 

[Martlet]

The only point at which I would get involved is if it appears me or my family is in harm's way.

I'm thankful someone like you wasn't there when my sister was assaulted in an attempted mugging.

Rest assured, if I ever see your family in need, though, I'll help them out.

 

[HKdrummer]

I got involved once back in 84. A guy was beating the shit out of his girlfriend and she was screaming for help. My 3 friends told me to mind my own business, but the girl was being dragged into a car and she was screaming that he was going to kill her (no shit) We got into it and during the struggle he slipped and landed face first on a curb, damn near knocked out ever one of his teeth. The cops showed up and he was arrested. Several days later I was arrested for assault and battery and had to pay for all his dental work. The chick turned against me and said that they were just having an argument and I got involved. 2 years probation and 3900.00 worth of dental work, The judge even said that he believed it to be BS, but based on the "sworn" testimony of the girl, I was found guilty. Would I do it again?? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and we'll see what happens

what goes around comes around theyll get theirs....

 

[Raoul Duke]

I got involved once back in 84. A guy was beating the shit out of his girlfriend and she was screaming for help. My 3 friends told me to mind my own business, but the girl was being dragged into a car and she was screaming that he was going to kill her (no shit) We got into it and during the struggle he slipped and landed face first on a curb, damn near knocked out ever one of his teeth. The cops showed up and he was arrested. Several days later I was arrested for assault and battery and had to pay for all his dental work. The chick turned against me and said that they were just having an argument and I got involved. 2 years probation and 3900.00 worth of dental work, The judge even said that he believed it to be BS, but based on the "sworn" testimony of the girl, I was found guilty. Would I do it again?? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and we'll see what happens

That sucks...

How did you get around that when you applied for a firearms license?

 

[bostonasphalt2]

I understand that, like I said it's a grey/gray area. If someone is getting his/her head kicked in then what?



You're right in a way, I wouldn't get involved in a parking lot fight.

However it may be different when you see one girl getting pummed by her BF, do you stop it or wait for the police?

Keep in mind I'm not talking about deadly force per se.

My point is that there is no time, you have to make a choice.

I thought you werent going to use "for instance" scenarios.....

 

[bostonasphalt2]

I got involved once back in 84. A guy was beating the shit out of his girlfriend and she was screaming for help. My 3 friends told me to mind my own business, but the girl was being dragged into a car and she was screaming that he was going to kill her (no shit) We got into it and during the struggle he slipped and landed face first on a curb, damn near knocked out ever one of his teeth. The cops showed up and he was arrested. Several days later I was arrested for assault and battery and had to pay for all his dental work. The chick turned against me and said that they were just having an argument and I got involved. 2 years probation and 3900.00 worth of dental work, The judge even said that he believed it to be BS, but based on the "sworn" testimony of the girl, I was found guilty. Would I do it again?? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and we'll see what happens

hopefully the guy turned and beat her for being so stupid

 

[wolf223]

remember, "scene size up"

it's something they teach in EMT school, but applies to these situations.

-generally speaking, your (my) safety comes first, can't help someone when your (I'm) dead.

but this type of situation is what separates the men from the mice. (ooooohhh, yes, I did type this)

my personal belief is to follow my gut

 

[ShootinFoodie]

I'm thankful someone like you wasn't there when my sister was assaulted in an attempted mugging.

Rest assured, if I ever see your family in need, though, I'll help them out.

Me, too. Putting myself in there, when the BG is very likely going to clean my clock unless I am justified to draw and point, would only result in two police reports.

 

[Asaltweapon]

There is no simple answer. It will depend on who, what, where, and when.

I don't look forward to seeing some punk ass facing the wrong way of 185 grains of jacket.

 

[Bob P]

Neighbor or aquaintence is a no brainer - get involved. Stranger is dependant on circumstances

 

[wolf223]

I don't look forward to seeing some punk ass facing the wrong way of 185 grains of jacket.

it's been a few months, i'm going to add this to my signature line.

 

[cekim]

my personal belief is to follow my gut

Some of us have to follow our gut because it sticks out further than any other part

I'd help.... For the same reason people have already said - "do unto others" is not a religious slogan to me - its a human one. It's the foundation of civilization...

Though I haven't needed to defend someone else - I have had to defend myself (both the assailants and I were relatively un-armed but 3:1 or more is a deadly force situation IMO regardless of guns/knives).

If you can keep your head you find that time can move very slow if you let it.

This is why I am convinced that if you are going to be armed, you should get yourself trained...

Not because the state tells you to - but because if all the muscle things like aiming and firing are automatic, you will have time to deal with the mental things like "who am I shooting?", "what's behind them?", "Is there anyone else I need to worry about?", "can I find someone to watch the kids while I deal with the police?"

Humans have two speeds they can use to accomplish tasks that involve the brain
1. cognitive (thinking) takes for ever (seconds)
2. "muscle memory" - muscles can move very fast (100s of milliseconds) if they already know where they are going...

 

[Bill Nance]

Using deadly force to prevent anything other than the imminent death of someone is not lawful in Mass. as I understand the laws.

If someone was getting the holy crap kicked out of them I might intervene or might not.

For all I know the beater just had a knife pulled on him by a mugger and I didn't see it. Maybe it's two friends who had an argument that's got out of hand. Maybe it's any number of things I couldn't possibly know.

First I'd call 911, then I'd say something. If the situation looked like the guy was going to be very seriously injured I might try to restrain the beater, but only if he was small enough I thought I'd have a reasonable chance of doing so without having to beat the holy crap out of him.

I DO know how to fight, and well. Unfortunately the moves I know involve medium to very serious injury and I'd only use them if me or mine were under direct threat or someone was going to die.

It's all well and good to want to help people, but the facts are that we as citizens get twice the second guessing of cops, with less training, fewer less-lethal tools and no legal cover if we screw up.

 

[M1911]

Using deadly force to prevent anything other than the imminent death of someone is not lawful in Mass. as I understand the laws.

It is my understanding that the standard here in MA is immediate danger of death or grave bodily injury, and that standard is very similar in almost all of the states in the union.