Mind your own business or get involved?

[M1911]

What we have here are people stating that they will not get involved no matter what the circumstance, that the only aid they will render is perhaps a telephone call to 911. Its outrageous to see some of the same voices that complain about crime and community are the same voices that whine when communities begin to falter and police intervention is needed...because no one stood up, no one said anything, no one did anything. Everyone assumed that someone else called 911. Everyones swallowing hook, line, and sinker advice from the AG decrying self help. What has become of you people?

I'm not sure who you are referring to. I have never said that I "will not get involved no matter what the circumstance." Far from it. From the way back machine:

My standard response would be to dial 911 and be a good witness. Are there some situations where I would intervene? Yes. But there is no clear line.

I'm not saying that I would never intervene. But I am saying that, particularly in an urban area where police response will be very quick, I'm not looking to jump into the middle of such incidents. The physical and legal risks associated with doing so are grave and I don't take them lightly.

I'm not swallowing anything from the AG. My decision making process is heavily influenced from my training at LFI-1 and LFI-2, from an objective analysis of my physical strengths and weaknesses, and from the reality that in most of the places I frequent police response to such a situation would be just a few minutes.

There is no way for me to define a clear decision tree for how I would respond to such a situation. It is too dependent upon the particulars of the situation. Might I intervene to help a third party? Yes. But that would not be my default response. I understand that you, and others, have a different opinion. I respect your view. I ask you to respect mine.

 

[Snapshot]

I think that the problem some are having with the "Call and witness" types are that you aren't doing ANYTHING to stop the attack. If you don't want to shoot what could be an innocent victim then how about just point the gun at them and tell them to stop. If it turns out to be the other way around, that should soon be apparent and nobody has died. Either way, you've stopped the attack.

There's always some other sheeple who will be calling 911 for me.

Don't be so sure. Studies have shown that everybody else is thinking the exact same thing... so nobody calls.

 

[M1911]

I think that the problem some are having with the "Call and witness" types are that you aren't doing ANYTHING to stop the attack. If you don't want to shoot what could be an innocent victim then how about just point the gun at them and tell them to stop. If it turns out to be the other way around, that should soon be apparent and nobody has died. Either way, you've stopped the attack.

If you are not legally justified in shooting them, then you are probably not legally justified in pointing a gun at them (assault with a dangerous weapon).

Also you are making the assumption that everyone who says their first response would be to call 911 is that that is all they would do. There are at least four different philosophies one could take:

1) Always intervene.
2) Lean towards intervening.
3) Lean against intervening.
4) Never intervene.

I think there are very, very few of us who espouse either #1 or #4. The difference between #2 and #3 isn't as great as some seem to making out. And for some reasons, some folks who espouse #2, seem to be deliberately mischaracterizing #3 as #4. Beats the heck out of me why that is.

 

[Kalahari]

Apparently for some people, if you aren't Rambo, Bourne, or John Wayne (and can afford a damn good lawyer), you're sheeple or something.

 

[cekim]

#4. The difference between #2 and #3 isn't as great as some seem to making out. And for some reasons, some folks who espouse #2, seem to be deliberately mischaracterizing #3 as #4. Beats the heck out of me why that is.

+1

A few have tried to point that out - and failed... [sad2]

 

[Martlet]

Apparently for some people, if you aren't Rambo, Bourne, or John Wayne (and can afford a damn good lawyer), you're sheeple or something.

Nah. You're sheeple if you've become so cowed by a moonbat mantra that you're too scared of being hurt, being sued, or being arrested that you won't do what's right.

 

[CRSIII]

It's strange how the law has made timid so many men.

Nah. You're sheeple if you've become so cowed by a moonbat mantra that you're too scared of being hurt, being sued, or being arrested that you won't do what's right.

+1

 

[M1911]

Nah. You're sheeple if you've become so cowed by a moonbat mantra that you're too scared of being hurt, being sued, or being arrested that you won't do what's right.

Once again, shades of gray being characterized as black and white.

 

[cekim]

Once again, shades of gray being characterized as black and white.

Racists...

 

[Kalahari]

Nah. You're sheeple if you've become so cowed by a moonbat mantra that you're too scared of being hurt, being sued, or being arrested that you won't do what's right.

Except that what you think is "right" could very, very easily turn out to be very wrong. You're so quick to make assumptions that you're eradicating half the damn outcomes.

 

[Martlet]

Except that what you think is "right" could very, very easily turn out to be very wrong. You're so quick to make assumptions that you're eradicating half the damn outcomes.

And you're so quick to run and hide that you allow yourself, and others, to be victimized.

When you grow up, unless you're a moonbat, you'll get it.

 

[Martlet]

Once again, shades of gray being characterized as black and white.

Once again, black and white being classified as shades of gray to soothe one's conscience.

 

[Kalahari]

And you're so quick to run and hide that you allow yourself, and others, to be victimized.

When you grow up, unless you're a moonbat, you'll get it.

Who's running and hiding? Assessing the situation is running and hiding? I'm not "allowing" anyone to be victimized if the only thing I do in the situation is make things worse.

All you're doing is playing the odds. As you said:

I'm not going to break up the gang bangers

How do you know someone in the mix isn't a gang-banger? How do you know it isn't some run-of-the-mill inner city student on his way home from school who's getting beaten to a pulp for being too smart in school? You sure you're going to be able to tell from the outside who's who? You said yourself you wouldn't get involved in this scenario. But are you not, by your own logic, "allowing" this victim to be victimized?

 

[cekim]

"Can't we all just get along?" -Rodney King

"mmmrph mmmobta ack!" -Reginald Denny

Oh wait, he got the living crap beat out of him in an intersection...

 

[clinotus]

"Can't we all just get along?" -Rodney King

"mmmrph mmmobta ack!" -Reginald Denny

Oh wait, he got the living crap beat out of him in an intersection...

I'm sure the crowd surrounding the event were all calling 911 from a safe distance while sipping lattes. That was an isolated event.

 

[squirt]

1. Call Law Enforcement (I am no hero)
2. Pull out camera phone and take as many pictures of the incident as possible.
3. Follow the individual if they leave the scene giving LE a description of a vehicle.

FYI, if this incident involves an elderly or child then all bets are off and I will get involved.

 

[Jaxon]

My standard response would be to dial 911 and be a good witness. Are there some situations where I would intervene? Yes. But there is no clear line.

+1. Once upon a time, I would have reacted first. Now, not so much unless a clear and present danger existed (sorry, it just came out, seemed pertinent) and then it depends on too many variables to list.

 

[Martlet]

But are you not, by your own logic, "allowing" this victim to be victimized?

As I said, when you grow up a little you'll understand. You're claiming gang bangers are victims now?

Seriously. I understand your need to defend your position. It must be tough to look in the mirror and realize you're part of the problem, not the solution.

 

[Admin]

Nobody is changing anyone's mind, this thread has pretty much served it's purpose.