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Mind your own business or get involved?

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I can't believe people have such thin skin. It's a thread on NES about "what you would do." If your feelings are that fragile don't post in the thread "what you would do".

Seriously, I don't think I've ever seen this much panty wadding in my life.

For the record I usually step in when I can after a quick situation assessment. If I was in trouble I would hope someone would help me rather than dial 911 and be a good witness.
 
Bill Nance said:
Before you go all ninja on someone you'd better be damned sure that you are doing the right thing, and your "gut" is the last thing on earth you'd better be using to make the decision to get involved.

No one here is going to stand by and do nothing while someone stomps a little old lady. But in fact it's pretty damned unlikely you're ever going to see that happen. You wanna bust a cap in someone's ass for snatching a purse? Have fun in Walpole. Are you going to go all Rambo and chase the guy down? I'll notify your kids what a hero you were as you died for $200.

If someone sticks a knife in my ribs all of a sudden and demands my wallet he's going to get it. when it's prudent or absolutely necessary to protect myself at the risk of getting stabbed, I'll pull my piece and that will be that (Or I'll be slower than him and die trying).
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+1 for using your head and not thinking that playing Jack Bauer is the best way out of every situation.
 
I'm too young to have known McGuyver, but from what I hear, that might actually be a reasonable solution.
 
A friend of mine once told me a story, not sure if it's true or not but whatever...
There was this guy who was in a train station, he hears a woman scream from a dark corner, and goes to investigate. When he gets there, he sees a woman whos a bit bloody and a dude standing over her with a meat tenderizer looking like he's about to hit the poor woman again. He reacts and shoots the guy to save the poor woman as he though she was in immediate danger of being killed. After the cops came to sort everything out the man was put in cuffs and arested. Turns out that the girl was a prostitute, she got paid to go down on the guy, but decided she'd make more money if she knocked the guy out and stole his wallet so she bit down a bit to get him to bend over while producing a meat tenderizer (metal hammer) that she had hoped to hit him over the head with. The guy however caught the swing and rite as he was yanking up to get the tenderizer away from her the would be hero ended up shooting him twice in the chest and killing him.

The point to the story, unless its someone your willing to go to jail for, die for, or spend the rest of your life as a vegetable for, it's not worth interfering outside of calling 911. You can never 100% know the circumstances behind something you just walked into. if it was a family member, or loved one, Hell yes I would interfere. A mad man that just randomly starts taking people out in a mall or a robbery, yup I'd act then too. but a random person on the street... Too much of a chance, call 911.
 
Veritas Aequitas said:
I got involved once back in 84. A guy was beating the shit out of his girlfriend and she was screaming for help. My 3 friends told me to mind my own business, but the girl was being dragged into a car and she was screaming that he was going to kill her (no shit) We got into it and during the struggle he slipped and landed face first on a curb, damn near knocked out ever one of his teeth. The cops showed up and he was arrested. Several days later I was arrested for assault and battery and had to pay for all his dental work. The chick turned against me and said that they were just having an argument and I got involved. 2 years probation and 3900.00 worth of dental work, The judge even said that he believed it to be BS, but based on the "sworn" testimony of the girl, I was found guilty. Would I do it again?? I'll cross that bridge when I come to it and we'll see what happens
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Sounds like the guy went loose and gave her the beating of her life and she "fell in line" with some fake story after that. [thinking]
 
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TomH said:
Sounds like the guy went loose and gave her the beating of her life and she "fell in line" with some fake story after that. [thinking]
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A lot of domestics are also, quite frankly, "f***ing weird" beyond explanation.

For example, there are endless episodes of COPS where the wife called the police on the husband for abuse, and then when the officers show up, she gets
pissed at them for arresting the husband. [thinking]

-Mike
 
I agree the 1st thing is call 911 and then get involve dif it appears to be a life threatening situation. As pointed out you can get royally screwed getting caught in the middle of a domestic situation and you will be the likely looser.
A relative who is a PA State Trooper advised me that before you pull a firearm you'd damn well better be sure of your situation or else you could be looking at serious legal problems.
He recently retired and, until he was hired on as a County Mounty, he stopped carrying all together.
 
Always call 911 first and foremost and give them all your info and anything you can about the actors before getting involved. That way when the cops show up if your ass is dead on the ground they might be able to tell your wife and kids who did it.

Making an assumption about a violent situation could be your last mistake. Of coarse you have to go with your gut after observing the situation and trying to assess it.

Guy is kicking the crap out of a girl. She is screaming for help. You jump in and pull the guy off. Girl jumps on your back and starts clawing at your eyes because she thinks you hurt her BF. Think it hasn't happened? Ask any cop how upside down a domestic situation can get in a heartbeat.

I'm not going to try to list all the kinds of violent situations I would or would not jump into. They are all unique and all bad bad bad. Some situations will be obvious, some will not, some you will think are obvious and it will be something else. The cops have the equipment, training and the numbers to handle it and even they get killed sometimes. Unless I think someone will be raped, dead, or kidnapped before the cops arrive I would rather stay on the phone and keep them as well informed as I can. The more info they have the more effective they will be intervening when they arrive. It's not a matter of bravado or cowardice. It's observation and analysis of the particular situation that will determine my coarse of action.

Accidents are different, I always help anyway I can. I commute and keep a road emergency kit, blankets and latex gloves in my car specifically for accidents. I have seen enough that I expect I will see another at some point. I don't touch a bleeding person without gloves. I have thought about taking an EMT coarse for 2 reasons. Might save someone's life and would have a better understanding of what information first responders are looking for while they are en route.
 
Over the years, I have been involved in many life threatening situations. Luckily, none of them armed fights, but things where I could have been killed while helping others. I have to admit that in pretty much every case, after the smoke had cleared and I carefully evaluated the situation, I concluded that I had acted foolishly! I had seriously exposed myself to grevious harm without really evaluating the situation properly.

In the most dangerous of them, it was my immediate assumptions that got me into trouble. See a burning car on 495, stop, people standing around, "is someone in there", try the car door--locked, grab a fire extinguisher from the car and bash in the window, feel around--nobody is in there, get a lung full of burning care upholstery. What if the car had exploded when I burst the window? For what did I risk my life and the future well being of my family?

Stuff like that. The situation is VERY confused and high charged. Take at least 1/2 a minute and evaluate the risks! In the above example, the smoke inside the car was so intense that IF there had been someone in there, he would have been dead long ago! The risk of an explosion was very high. There were plenty of others around staring at the blaze not willing to get involved--and that disgusted me enough to want to jump in and help. Risk/reward was very poor in that case! Today, unless I knew there were innocent people in that car, I would not jump in. Like if I heard a baby screaming or something.


Looking back at all the times I had inadvertently risked my life, and lucked out to be able to live and tell about it....I would characterize many of those situations as foolish to get into in the first place. Stuff like flying thru thunderstorms instead of having a cup of coffee and reading the paper for 4 hours and flying in blue sunny skies. Impulsiveness and foolishness is common in man, use your brain to think it thru.
 
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Bill Nance said:
For all I know the beater just had a knife pulled on him by a mugger and I didn't see it. Maybe it's two friends who had an argument that's got out of hand. Maybe it's any number of things I couldn't possibly know.
Click to expand...

I'm responding here without having read this whole thread yet but I think I have read about 100 'what if' scenarios in the CCW section of the S&W forum.

Unless you have witnessed the altercation from the beginning or know the participants the odds are pretty good you are stepping into the middle of something you can't get out of.

A couple of scenarios that turn out to be LEO's trying to make arrests stop me in my tracks, and I'm to decrepit to get into a real fight. Bill's other quote that you are not LEO and should not be pretending to be is also a very important point.

Your CCW is really for you and your family and your cell phone is your most important weapon.

Bill
 
Last summer I witnessed a guy beating up his girlfriend pretty bad. I went outside and told them the cops were notified and that they should go there seperate ways. She started to swear at me and tell me to mind my own buisness. I sat up pretty late that night "watching traffic"...I would do it again
 
drgrant said:
A lot of domestics are also, quite frankly, "f***ing weird" beyond explanation.

For example, there are endless episodes of COPS where the wife called the police on the husband for abuse, and then when the officers show up, she gets
pissed at them for arresting the husband. [thinking]

-Mike
Click to expand...

It's almost a universal "given" that in domestics . . . the woman yells/calls for help. Someone intercedes (LEO or citizen) and afterwards the woman turns on the person who intercedes. In almost all domestics, the woman goes back with the guy that beat her after all is said and done. There are psychological studies on this stuff.

If you see a domestic and decide to get involved as a private citizen, be prepared for the "ride of your life" in court! [Sorry Ross! [wink] ]

Best solution in domestics is to call 911 and do nothing more than be a good witness.
 
clinotus said:
Cowardice demands you stand back in your safety zone, wait for the operator, wait for the call to be routed to dispatch, wait to give your name..location, wait for the officer with the pen and pad so that you can be a better witness for what just happened.
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I think the issue us "call and wait" folks have isn't that we don't want to get all Rambo on someone, it's just that I don't have ESP.

For any specific situation anyone can come up with (male, female, black, white, asian) assaulting (male, female, black, white, asian) there is no way to just know who is the 'bad' guy and who is the victim. Don't forget we all also have our own private prejudices. Make a mistake in such a situation ... and you will have destroyed your whole family.

As a side note, I think it was in the S&W CCW thread there was a case where a wacko pulled over on a highway and as each good Samaritan stopped to help he shot them with a shotgun, but we need to break that out into a different discussion.

Bill
 
Had that question run through my head two weeks ago. I was leaving work, and saw the aftermath of a car crash at the exit to my building's parking lot.

The way the snow was piled at the entrance/exit make the turn onto Ballardvale pretty blind, so the girl that was pulling out likely never saw the VW coming at her. Regardless, she was sitting in the driver's seat of the Toyota Matrix, and the VW driver was standing at the point of impact, screaming at her and flailing his arms. She kept the window rolled up, and stared straight ahead. I pulled across the street into the other parking lot and kept my headlights on them. He calmed down, they separated. A couple of tractor trailers blocked the road for them.

Had I seen him start getting violent, I would have called the cops, let them know what was going on, and come out to let them both know the cops were called, and to politely suggest he get back in his car. Had he turned on me, I would have had no qualms with controlling him and setting him back into his car or pinning him to the road until the police arrived to take over.
 
bishop375 said:
Had that question run through my head two weeks ago. I was leaving work, and saw the aftermath of a car crash at the exit to my building's parking lot.

The way the snow was piled at the entrance/exit make the turn onto Ballardvale pretty blind, so the girl that was pulling out likely never saw the VW coming at her. Regardless, she was sitting in the driver's seat of the Toyota Matrix, and the VW driver was standing at the point of impact, screaming at her and flailing his arms. She kept the window rolled up, and stared straight ahead. I pulled across the street into the other parking lot and kept my headlights on them. He calmed down, they separated. A couple of tractor trailers blocked the road for them.

Had I seen him start getting violent, I would have called the cops, let them know what was going on, and come out to let them both know the cops were called, and to politely suggest he get back in his car. Had he turned on me, I would have had no qualms with controlling him and setting him back into his car or pinning him to the road until the police arrived to take over.
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Probably as you described it in this case . . . however just to put a different spin on a traffic accident.

Many years ago when I was working a shift at the PD, I got dispatched to the scene of a traffic accident. Turned out that the two cars involved were girlfriend/boyfriend. The girl was the daughter of one of our detectives. I honestly never could figure out how they ended up with that sort of accident (angles didn't make sense, etc.)! I just "reported the facts" and let others sort it out. Was it a "domestic"? I have no idea, both were teenagers and "well behaved" when I got there, but what transpired beforehand would probably be an "interesting story".
 
b79holmes said:
I think the issue us "call and wait" folks have isn't that we don't want to get all Rambo on someone, it's just that I don't have ESP.

For any specific situation anyone can come up with (male, female, black, white, asian) assaulting (male, female, black, white, asian) there is no way to just know who is the 'bad' guy and who is the victim. Don't forget we all also have our own private prejudices. Make a mistake in such a situation ... and you will have destroyed your whole family.

As a side note, I think it was in the S&W CCW thread there was a case where a wacko pulled over on a highway and as each good Samaritan stopped to help he shot them with a shotgun, but we need to break that out into a different discussion.

Bill
Click to expand...

I dont think that any reasonable person will disagree with a wait and see approach in some scenarios. When a situation occurs sometimes, you do have to assess the scene for your own safety prior to getting involved, and there are some situations for which none of us are trained for or have the proper equipment for.

The assumption that just because we are firearms owners and carry proactively means that we have to jump into a scene with guns a' blazin' is a giant fallacy. A firearm on your hip or in your pocket doesnt qualify you to render first aid or transform you into a neighborhood crime fighter.

And it doesn't go in line with what I am saying at all.

What we have here are people stating that they will not get involved no matter what the circumstance, that the only aid they will render is perhaps a telephone call to 911. Its outrageous to see some of the same voices that complain about crime and community are the same voices that whine when communities begin to falter and police intervention is needed...because no one stood up, no one said anything, no one did anything. Everyone assumed that someone else called 911. Everyones swallowing hook, line, and sinker advice from the AG decrying self help. What has become of you people?

The domestic abuse replies here are horrendous. Yes, we know the odds are 90% that she'll turn on you, yes we know they'll likely work it out on their own, yes we know he may eventually kill her and its her choice. But standing there whistling the hold music while a male who outweighs a female by 70+ pounds slams her against walls and concrete? That just doesn't fly in my book, and I can't apologize for it.

Call 911, observe and get involved if you can safely do so. I dont see anything wrong with that.
 
clinotus said:
What we have here are people stating that they will not get involved no matter what the circumstance, that the only aid they will render is perhaps a telephone call to 911. Its outrageous to see some of the same voices that complain about crime and community are the same voices that whine when communities begin to falter and police intervention is needed...because no one stood up, no one said anything, no one did anything. Everyone assumed that someone else called 911. Everyones swallowing hook, line, and sinker advice from the AG decrying self help. What has become of you people?
Click to expand...

I think you've mischaracterized the nature of the responses on this thread.
Only one person so far as I can tell has made the statement they would "never" get involved. Two others have intimated that and then revised their statements with more detail about when they would get involved. I don't think most here would "only" call 911. I certainly am not in that category.

What you're seeing is a reaction to the all too common bravado displayed on these kinds of forums, which essentially says that "I will get involved no matter what if someone is taking a beating."

Those of us who've been around the block a few more times than others tend to have a more rational approach and also frankly have more at stake than many younger guys. Potentially leave my young child fatherless? I'd have to be DAMNED sure there was no other option. If the circumstances were appropriate I'd jump in and take my chances.

As I said before, no one here (I would hope) would idly stand by and call 911 while someone stomps a little old lady. If it's clear that something truly awful is going to happen I'm certainly going to get involved, first just by yelling: "I've called the cops and they're on their way." That should stop many many altercations. From there I will have to use my judgment depending on the circumstances, always bearing in mind that I probably don't know exactly what is going on.

I'm not afraid of getting my ass kicked. I've had it kicked quite a few times, including two broken noses. Similarly I'm not going to PHYSICALLY jump into a situation that the cops can deal with better than me, when the only apparent consequences look like someone getting punched out.

You don't die from getting your ass kicked, you probably don't even need more than a 20-minute checkup and a vicodin scrip at the emergency room at worst.

The domestic abuse replies here are horrendous. Yes, we know the odds are 90% that she'll turn on you, yes we know they'll likely work it out on their own, yes we know he may eventually kill her and its her choice. But standing there whistling the hold music while a male who outweighs a female by 70+ pounds slams her against walls and concrete? That just doesn't fly in my book, and I can't apologize for it.
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Slamming her against concrete? Yes I'm going to get involved. Slapping her around? I'm gonna call the cops and tell the perp I've done so.

It's not cowardice to accept the reality that getting physically involved has very serious legal risks. There was a time when if you broke some a**h***'s nose for hitting a woman nothing would happen to you except a thankyou from the cops. If we lived in those times I think a lot of folks stated attitudes would be very different.

But putting yourself, your family's financial future and your civil rights at VERY serious risk isn't something anyone should be willing to do unless the circumstances are pretty clear. And for the older, less physically abled, unless deadly force is warranted, there's nothing people CAN do except calling 911.

I don't think you need be horrified. Most folks on this forum will do the right thing. You're just seeing a note of caution which, as armed citizens, we need to use MORE, not LESS than the unarmed guy.
 
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Martlet said:
At least some people have a conscience. Some of you are welcome at my table any time.

Even though some sheeple wouldn't show my family the same responsibility, rest assured I'd still help theirs.

It really makes me sick.
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I got your back Martlet, and that of your wife and kids.

while I'm not going to get involved in an fair case of "mutual combat". I will not stand around and watch a "beatdown", especially if the victim is a woman, child, or elderly. I'm over 40 and out of shape, but my chances are better than a 75 year old woman.

I haven't read every post yet, so I don't know if it's been mentioned. Getting involved doesn't NEED to be physical, and doesn't need to involve a firearm
 
Chugga chugga chugga, choo chooooooooooo.... Chooo... Whamm.... Clank.... pft... pft....
300px-Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg


[popcorn]
 
The best response you could ever give to any situation is the one where you can sleep at night with a clean conscience in knowing you tried to do THE RIGHT THING.

And after our lives are just about over, we will all be laying upon our death-beds asking ourselves whether everything we did was THE RIGHT THING TO DO at the time.

Because truly, that is all that matters...Going to the grave with a clean conscience.

If I find myself in a situation where a punk is beating up a victim who is obviously overpowered, and I defend that person's life by killing the perp, they could toss me into an iron maiden and slip bamboo shoots under my fingernails...Because when my time finally comes, I will be able to say to the ferryman of the River Styx..."I feel I did the right things to do in my life".

THAT is all that truly matters, in a very ironic sense of this reality we currently inhabit.
 
Atlanta Woman Uses Stun Gun To Help Officer In Distress

Sunday, January 25, 2009 – updated: 12:20 pm EST January 26, 2009
LITHONIA, Ga. -- Tanisha Cross never thought the stun gun she received for Christmas would come in handy so soon.

Cross said she was headed to Wal-Mart in Lithonia with her mother when she noticed a DeKalb County police officer being attacked by a suspect.

SLIDESHOW: Atlanta Woman Uses Taser Gun To Help Officer In Distress

“I just told my mom pull over, … let’s try to help,” said Cross.

The 20-year-old mother, who received the stun gun as a gift from her husband, said she kept it in a diaper bag.

ASHLEY HAYES: Atlanta Woman Uses Taser Gun To Help Officer In Distress

Cross said while others gathered to watch, she sprung into action.

"I went straight for my kid’s diaper bag and I got it and asked it if he [officer] wanted me to do it and he said, 'Yea,'" said Cross.

Cross said the officer had a hard time defending himself because the attacker had taken the officer's radio and managed to rub pepper spray in the officer's face and eyes.

Jolting the attacker, Cross' timing couldn't have been better. Cross said she tasered the suspect in his arms and legs.

Cross said she stunned the attacker to where the officer regained his composure and fought back until a security guard came to their aid.

"He’s brave," she said. "He did his best to keep him from his gun. He handled the situation very well. I was just glad I could help him," said Cross.

Cross doesn’t consider herself a hero.

"I’m just a bystander trying to help do the right thing," said Cross.
 
That's a situation I could definitely see myself helping in. Especially if I were to ask the officer if he needed assistance first. I have faith that helping a police officer won't get me a lawsuit or worse.
 
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