Massachusetts LTB? ("License to "Bulge")

[GlockJock]

you should by all means be a dick and start screaming at the questioner and cause as big a scene as possible, all while recording it on your phone to post on youtube later.
/sarcasm
Seriously, wgaf? Show him the permit and move on. Do you lose your sh*t when the gun store asks before selling you something too?? God almighty.

So if a cop walked by your house and decided he'd go in "just for a quick look around" you'd be cool with that too and say "WGAF?"...Apparently we HAVE become well-conditioned in sheep hood up here, just like the .gov and the jackboots want us to be, yes? If I'm in a gun store, I've willingly taken it upon myself, put myself in a position where I should EXPECT to be asked for a license....Meanwhile, in other states, I could walk down the street with a S&W 500 strapped outside my waistband, full open carry, and not even be asked by a law enforcement officer about it, unless he specifically suspected me of being a felon...

WGAF?
"God Almighty" indeed.

 

[GlockJock]

what if he decides he wants to see whats in your pockets? your car? your home? your ass?
I know, in Mass you have to provide the permit on request, but there is a 4th Amendment. But we can give that up too, we've lost the 1st, 2nd, teeter on the edge of the 4th,5th, 6th 8th 9th and 10th
Really, I'm not trying to be an ass...just because a cop asks doesn't mean you should offer. In this case you are legally required, not so in most states (even this shitty one) Do not "chat" with police, they are not having polite conversation (it may be polite conversation, but ultimately you are being interrogated)

My thoughts ex-f*ckin-actly!!!!!!!!!! Hence my OP. Like WTF???

 

[GlockJock]

If your friend was carrying in his front pocket that means the cop was looking in that direction.So the cop was looking at your friends junk,and just happen to see the gun printing.So your friend was cop junked checked.

That also was one of my first thoughts, my second being that he was being "alert" cuz he's a cop, probably a good one, and oh, by the way, it's C-h-e-l-s-e-a.

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

So if a cop walked by your house and decided he'd go in "just for a quick look around" you'd be cool with that too and say "WGAF?"...Apparently we HAVE become well-conditioned in sheep hood up here, just like the .gov and the jackboots want us to be, yes? If I'm in a gun store, I've willingly taken it upon myself, put myself in a position where I should EXPECT to be asked for a license....Meanwhile, in other states, I could walk down the street with a S&W 500 strapped outside my waistband, full open carry, and not even be asked by a law enforcement officer about it, unless he specifically suspected me of being a felon...

WGAF?
"God Almighty" indeed.

Nobody says boo about open carried guns around here. Most of the time, it becomes a
friendly topic of conversation at a register line or shopping aisle. Kentucky is like a different planet from MA.

 

[GlockJock]

There is a ton of fail in this thread.
The cop needs to demand the LTC not ask (and yes, there is a huge difference).
Time and time again this comes up, mere possession of a firearm is NOT enough for a cop to demand a license and is NOT an indication of a crime being committed.

Exactly, and why I was pissed and posted the OP....otherwise, we can all be asked to stop and be frisked, searched, interrogated.....Living in MA I think I have a better understanding of how a Jewish guy probably felt walking around Germany in the late 1930s

 

[GlockJock]

Ate there many times for lunch with a CW. The only problem I had was going back to work that has a "no firearm" policy. Screw them; it was Chelsea!

Which is why you're alive and well and posting today!

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I find it unbelievable. Downright disturbing. You have friends????

A few...and if you're buying the drinks you usually end up with more a few.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Im curious, what age bracket do you and your compadres fall in?

Good question.

 

[Sparky123]

Just happened today at lunch... Chelsea restaurant.. My friends and I (four of us) at a table. We're all LTC.. One guy gets up and walks toward men's room...Two cops (one is a County Sheriff, one is Chelsea cop) are sitting in booth near restroom as my friend passes by them while heading into men's room.
On his way back out he passes the same booth. Sheriff looks/grins at him, points to him to get his attention and says "Have a permit for that?". Our friend stops and says "Permit? For what?"... Cop says "For the revolver in your pocket"..(friend wears Levi style jeans, they're the light blue/faded color and yes, he was, by his own admission, "printing" slightly.. He pocket carries a S&W)...
Our pal is half stunned, half taken aback by the question, but it's two cops... So he says "Yes, SirI do"... Cop says "Can I see it?" and instead of pushing his luck (and since our friend isn't as "Screw you.. Probable cause?" as the rest of us are. He's the "quiet" nice guy among usy, basically) . So he complies, pulls his wallet and shows the LTC... Cop doesn't even really look at it at all, but instead basically half grins/half nods and says "OK, you're good"... As our friend starts to walk away, Sheriff says "So whaddya carry?" and they have a quick conversation on guns and stuff... Cop is "actually a pretty good dude" our friend tells us when he returns to our table, as we're all basically excoriatiing him for "Kneeling and Complying" etc to the cop's "polite demand to see" a LTC.... I'm basically beside myself, easily the most pissed of all of us (no surprise, for those here who know me and my "Bleed 2A" thoughts and feelings). But our friend just dismisses it as a "Meh, whatever, it's really no big deal"

And, needless to say, I couldn't wait to post this here and ask the the NES experts on this: If it were me and I'd said something along the lines of "Excuse me, sir? Unless you suspect me of being a felon, what's the basis for you to ask the question, Sir?" or something along those 2A/4A lines...

So... What's exactly the deal here in the Republik? Was the cop OK in asking? (can't believe he was, but in MA nothing surprises me anymore) ... Oh, and not to mention that we were about two blocks from the Chelsea Projects. Nothing potentially unlawful going on there, I'm certain, eh?

[emoji35]

We all have to pick and choose our battles, and it sounds like your friend made the right choice given the circumstances. A situation like that could have went south very quickly. And if the SHTF, just who do you think your local police chief would have believed ? In situations like this you have to remember that you are in Massachusetts and not Texas. The 2nd amendment has no meaning here, so there's no point in quoting it to any LEO's. Here It's the local police chief that decides who will or will not carry a firearm. And you don't have to be an expert to know that if you give any s**t to an LEO you can kiss your LTC goodbye.

 

[GlockJock]

Im curious, what age bracket do you and your compadres fall in?

Old enough to croak any day but still young enough....plus, the Constitution, specifically the Bill of Rights, doesn't specify too many "age requirements". A few, but none that are applicable to this incident...

 

[Mike-Mike]

Given the facts in the OP, what is unlawful about the cop's action, in reference to the linked MGLs?

Nothing unlawful. It's a question and nothing more.

 

[GPP]

Good question.

Which he apparently isnt gonna answer, so Ive drawn my conclusion from that.

 

[Asaltweapon]

My thoughts ex-f*ckin-actly!!!!!!!!!! Hence my OP. Like WTF???

Going a little extreme. No?

It sounded like a simple question that had a simple answer and response. No need to lawyer up just then. There's plenty of time for that to happen when the LEO blind sides you with any number of bullshit charges just to eff you up and cost you a ton of money with BS legal fees defending something stupid that will get dropped after you are stuck refi'ing your house.

 

[GPP]

Nothing unlawful. It's a question and nothing more.

Its also a question based on probable cause, so it actually is a bit more, isnt it?

 

[Asaltweapon]

Which he apparently isnt gonna answer, so Ive drawn my conclusion from that.

Too busy looking for the next worthless fight for no reason. If you're legal who gives a rat's ass? Nothing the LEO can do unless you allow him to escalate the situation into something more than; "Do you have a LTC for that thing inside your skinny jeans"?

 

[Picton]

Living in MA I think I have a better understanding of how a Jewish guy probably felt walking around Germany in the late 1930s

I'm just going to leave this here so I can laugh about it later. Because, you know, it's not an exaggeration or anything. No no, it's RIGHT on the money. Yeah. Uh, sure...

When they MANDATE your CCW sash, then beat you up and deprive you of your home and business due to your last name and where your grandparents worshipped, then make you sign your bank account over to the Commonwealth if you move to NH... then maybe, possibly, perhaps, your statement wil be sort of true. Maybe.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Living in MA I think I have a better understanding of how a Jewish guy probably felt walking around Germany in the late 1930s

I would suggest you spend some time reading and understanding what actually happened to the Jews in Germany prior to and during WW2 before trivializing their plight and demise with your pathetic rant

 

[GPP]

I would suggest you spend some time reading and understanding what actually happened to the Jews in Germany prior to and during WW2 before trivializing their plight and demise with your pathetic rant

Cmon now, theres no call for research here, he clearly knows the details of what took place in Germany and a few other places back then, why else would he make such an excellent comparison?

 

[Mike-Mike]

Its also a question based on probable cause, so it actually is a bit more, isnt it?

Probable cause of what crime being committed?

 

[GPP]

Probable cause of what crime being committed?

No crime, but PC that hes carrying a gun, hence the question. If the guy had told the cop to **** off, do you think the cop had enough PC to escalate the situation, legally?

I may not have articulated enough/properly, Ive been drinking.

The "printing" is at hunch level, that brought forth the questioning, which was answered truthfully, so now we are at PC and the let me see your LTC begins.

 

[Chet0729]

I would have replied "My papers are in order sir".

Sure, is this were California where such an offense exists.

MA is governed by Simkin v. FRB.

There is always the old stand by disorderly person.

 

[W.E.C]

That's an on the ball cop.
He has situational awawareness.

He he saw your bud go in the crapper with a pistol ,

was as checking that he didn't leave the pistol and take the cannoli.

 

[headednorth]

What's the difference between:

Hey, where do you think you're going?

And

Hold it right there.

The answer is - everything is the difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sound the same to me. Back in the day, either one would of got you body-slammed if you kept moving.

 

[Mike-Mike]

No crime, but PC that hes carrying a gun, hence the question. If the guy had told the cop to **** off, do you think the cop had enough PC to escalate the situation, legally?

Sure,

And if he made a book it for the door he would be in the hospital now... lol

I know why the cop asked and he didn't do anything wrong. However he was under no obligation to answer or stop and talk to him. At this point it was a question.

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Sound the same to me. Back in the day, either one would of got you body-slammed if you kept moving.

Exactly.. However an LEO needs a real reason to say the latter and needs nothing to say the former..

 

[briz]

I would have yelled "MELON LABEL" and then kicked him in the chest like a real Spartan

 

[GPP]

Sure,

And if he made a book it for the door he would be in the hospital now... lol

I know why the cop asked and he didn't do anything wrong. However he was under no obligation to answer or stop and talk to him. At this point it was a question.

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Exactly.. However an LEO needs a real reason to say the latter and needs nothing to say the former..

Everyone has their line in the sand.
If he had chosen to not answer the cop, the cop could very easily articulate escalating from the hunch/threshold inquiry/ to PC to detain and pat frisk etc etc etc.
When I instruct, I spell this shit out to people. Some probably think its bowing down and blowing the cop as he tramples their Constitutional rights, and some probably think who gives a rats ass, and do exactly what the OPs skinny jeaned buddy did.

 

[Lank]

Cuz being "stopped" for no reason seems like an invasion. I mean WTF?... And in this restaurant I'm guessing 30 percent of the people dining there (and probably 90 percent of the workers) aren't citizens and there had to be at least six dudes who looked Iike they were dealing something - and I don't mean blackjack...

Lemme guess- the brown jug?

 

[Mike-Mike]

Everyone has their line in the sand.
If he had chosen to not answer the cop, the cop could very easily articulate escalating from the hunch/threshold inquiry/ to PC to detain and pat frisk etc etc etc.
When I instruct, I spell this shit out to people. Some probably think its bowing down and blowing the cop as he tramples their Constitutional rights, and some probably think who gives a rats ass, and do exactly what the OPs skinny jeaned buddy did.

Correct! I am not advising anyone to play hardball with anyone. However we both know the defense could get the entire situation thrown out if tight pants played his cards right and he has nothing to gain by playing along with the games.

It's good to at least understand it's a fishing expedition and nothing more.

Even if the cop saw the gun he wouldn't have the PC to demand the license.

 

[In God We Trust]

I would suggest you spend some time reading and understanding what actually happened to the Jews in Germany prior to and during WW2 before trivializing their plight and demise with your pathetic rant

Did you forget the old NES meme about cops "just following orders" and my personal favorite:

"It was also legal to kill Jews in Germany."

 

[LoginName]

I would have yelled "MELON LABEL" and then kicked him in the chest like a real Spartan

 

[M1911]

Sure, And if he made a book it for the door he would be in the hospital now... lol I know why the cop asked and he didn't do anything wrong. However he was under no obligation to answer or stop and talk to him. At this point it was a question. - - - Updated - - - Exactly.. However an LEO needs a real reason to say the latter and needs nothing to say the former..

So, play that out. The cop asks the question and I ignore the question and keep walking. Now the cop thinks I'm hiding something or trying to get away, gets pissed, and stops me, either by force or command. And then he demands the license. Or worse.

How is that a better outcome for me?

Explain to me what you think the right way to handle this is and how you think it would play, particularly after you piss off the cop and he sends a note to your licensing officer.