Massachusetts LTB? ("License to "Bulge")

[Picton]

you should by all means be a dick and start screaming at the questioner and cause as big a scene as possible, all while recording it on your phone to post on youtube later.

/sarcasm

Seriously, wgaf? Show him the permit and move on. Do you lose your sh*t when the gun store asks before selling you something too?? God almighty.

This.

If if you go looking for trouble, you'll surely find it. If that's what gets you off, then cool. Me, I'd just chat with the po-po, finish my meal, and go home full.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

My personal solution to this is to not hang around with dudes in skinny jeans

 

[drgrant]

you should by all means be a dick and start screaming at the questioner and cause as big a scene as possible, all while recording it on your phone to post on youtube later.

/sarcasm

Seriously, wgaf? Show him the permit and move on. Do you lose your sh*t when the gun store asks before selling you something too?? God almighty.

We call that "Pulling a Walter" Not sure why but this thread made me think of this clip...

NSFW:

 

[gamma19]

.

 

[CaseHardened]

Just happened today at lunch... Chelsea restaurant.. My friends and I (four of us) at a table. We're all LTC.. One guy gets up and walks toward men's room...Two cops (one is a County Sheriff, one is Chelsea cop) are sitting in booth near restroom as my friend passes by them while heading into men's room.
On his way back out he passes the same booth. Sheriff looks/grins at him, points to him to get his attention and says "Have a permit for that?". Our friend stops and says "Permit? For what?"... Cop says "For the revolver in your pocket"..(friend wears Levi style jeans, they're the light blue/faded color and yes, he was, by his own admission, "printing" slightly.. He pocket carries a S&W)...
Our pal is half stunned, half taken aback by the question, but it's two cops... So he says "Yes, SirI do"... Cop says "Can I see it?" and instead of pushing his luck (and since our friend isn't as "Screw you.. Probable cause?" as the rest of us are. He's the "quiet" nice guy among usy, basically) . So he complies, pulls his wallet and shows the LTC... Cop doesn't even really look at it at all, but instead basically half grins/half nods and says "OK, you're good"... As our friend starts to walk away, Sheriff says "So whaddya carry?" and they have a quick conversation on guns and stuff... Cop is "actually a pretty good dude" our friend tells us when he returns to our table, as we're all basically excoriatiing him for "Kneeling and Complying" etc to the cop's "polite demand to see" a LTC.... I'm basically beside myself, easily the most pissed of all of us (no surprise, for those here who know me and my "Bleed 2A" thoughts and feelings). But our friend just dismisses it as a "Meh, whatever, it's really no big deal"

And, needless to say, I couldn't wait to post this here and ask the the NES experts on this: If it were me and I'd said something along the lines of "Excuse me, sir? Unless you suspect me of being a felon, what's the basis for you to ask the question, Sir?" or something along those 2A/4A lines...

So... What's exactly the deal here in the Republik? Was the cop OK in asking? (can't believe he was, but in MA nothing surprises me anymore) ... Oh, and not to mention that we were about two blocks from the Chelsea Projects. Nothing potentially unlawful going on there, I'm certain, eh?

[emoji35]

Good Thread - LTC Holders need to be on their toes.

Don't be a Jerk - Follow the Law - No biggie.

OR....

Make a big deal of it.

Get the LEO to start thinking we're all A-Holes.

---

If he were a dick, could he bust you for BRANDISHING ? Just asking.

---

There are quite a few threads on NES, which conclude that the LEO was just looking for conversation.

OR - looking for you to incriminate yourself. So be friendly, but be cautious.

 

[FreeWillie]

Yeah. You guys are carrying and didnt know you had to show an LTC on command? Your buddy was smart. And you'd better get more familiar with our shitty laws bedore you really hurt yourself.

This. Hey you dumbasses

 

[JoeT]

This.

If if you go looking for trouble, you'll surely find it. If that's what gets you off, then cool. Me, I'd just chat with the po-po, finish my meal, and go home full.

what if he decides he wants to see whats in your pockets? your car? your home? your ass?

I know, in Mass you have to provide the permit on request, but there is a 4th Amendment. But we can give that up too, we've lost the 1st, 2nd, teeter on the edge of the 4th,5th, 6th 8th 9th and 10th

Really, I'm not trying to be an ass...just because a cop asks doesn't mean you should offer. In this case you are legally required, not so in most states (even this shitty one) Do not "chat" with police, they are not having polite conversation (it may be polite conversation, but ultimately you are being interrogated)

 

[In God We Trust]

I pocket-carry a snubnose all the time and no one has ever called me out on it.





/thread

That's what I carry and it depends on what I am wearing. Some of my pants and shorts hide it well, others there is a clear print of the gun. Different size pockets I guess

 

[john m]

Good Thread - LTC Holders need to be on their toes.

Don't be a Jerk - Follow the Law - No biggie.

OR....

Make a big deal of it.

Get the LEO to start thinking we're all jerks.

---

If he were a dick, could he bust you for BRANDISHING ? Just asking.

---

There are quite a few threads on NES, which conclude that the LEO was just looking for conversation.

OR - looking for you to incriminate yourself. So be friendly, but be cautious.

Understood, They didn't see the gun. They saw an outline of a gun. The guy could have been going to a birthday party and it was a squirt gun. He made the right decision to show his LTC. The police have a lot of *******s to deal with. He didn't waste their time . They can go after the real bad guys.

 

[PATRON]

If your friend was carrying in his front pocket that means the cop was looking in that direction.So the cop was looking at your friends junk,and just happen to see the gun printing.So your friend was cop junked checked.

 

[Mike-Mike]

There is a ton of fail in this thread.

The cop needs to demand the LTC not ask (and yes, there is a huge difference).

Time and time again this comes up, mere possession of a firearm is NOT enough for a cop to demand a license and is NOT an indication of a crime being committed.

 

[headednorth]

... Oh, and not to mention that we were about two blocks from the Chelsea Projects. Nothing potentially unlawful going on there, I'm certain, eh?

[emoji35]

Chelsea's only around 2 square miles, everywhere is a couple of blocks from the projects.

 

[M1911]

There is a ton of fail in this thread. The cop needs to demand the LTC not ask (and yes, there is a huge difference). Time and time again this comes up, mere possession of a firearm is NOT enough for a cop to demand a license and is NOT an indication of a crime being committed.

You thinks beat cop knows the difference and will respond well if you push it?

You are in a "suitability" state.

 

[Mike-Mike]

You thinks beat cop knows the difference and will respond well if you push it?

It's much more important that we know the difference. I will say that recently many LEO has been in agreement on this and this topic has been coming up at the law updates.

The education has changed the way LE deals with a CCWer who accidentally exposes the gun. It's no longer a big panic and loss of LTC etc. It just a formal demand of license and move along.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

OK. I'll bite.

If I was asked I would have replied yes I do have a permit. I've been asked before and replied the same.

I would have replied "My papers are in order sir".

If he were a dick, could he bust you for BRANDISHING ? Just asking.

Sure, is this were California where such an offense exists.

MA is governed by Simkin v. FRB.

 

[Glockster30]

It was Floramo's, Bro... Never disappointing! [emoji3]

Ate there many times for lunch with a CW. The only problem I had was going back to work that has a "no firearm" policy. Screw them; it was Chelsea!

 

[Picton]

what if he decides he wants to see whats in your pockets? your car? your home? your ass?

I know this is just you being all reductio-ad-absurdam and all, but it really is apples to oranges. If you don't think I understand the difference between a produce-on-demand LTC and a body cavity search (in a restaurant, no less), then I'm clearly not going to be swayed by your other points. So thanks, but no thanks.

I'll just keep living my life; y'all keep living yours, but leave enough tinfoil on the shelves for the rest of us to cook our potatoes.

For the record, I think it's clear from the OP's post that his skinny-jeaned friend made the right choice here, in his dealings with the 5-0 if not his trouser choice.

 

[frenchman]

I find it unbelievable. Downright disturbing. You have friends????

 

[Finalygotabeltfed]

Also, tell your buddy that tight jeans aren't a good look for guys.

He's also not going to be able to quickly pull a revolver out of a pocket that so tight its printing.

 

[MAGG]

since you asked nicely

 

[Asaltweapon]

I would have replied "My papers are in order sir".

Sure, is this were California where such an offense exists.

MA is governed by Simkin v. FRB.

Perhaps but I live in a very small town where every single cop knows me well. We've done many things together and had a great time over the many years I've lived here.

If I'm doing nothing wrong what the hell do I want a confrontation for? To prove a point? To have some cop in another town call my COP and give "his side of the story"? Sure. Sign me right up for that bullchit waste of time and effort exercise.
2 weeks ago the COP and the LT on speaker phone called me to bust my balls (friendly mind you) on one of my out of state permits. All fun and no problems. No questions. Signed and returned. Maybe I've just got too much work and responsibility at my day job to get into the nitty gritty BS in everyday MA life.


I'm currently looking at my green stripe card and want to talk to the COP first. Yup.... Sure.... I want to be a dick while carrying a little pistol.

I'm not going to get into the right or wrong of all of this but I'll be damned if I shoot myself in the foot over something so effing stupid as legally carrying with a cop who asked a simple question because I'm not interested in being front page news.

 

[MisterHappy]

There is a ton of fail in this thread.

The cop needs to demand the LTC not ask (and yes, there is a huge difference).

Time and time again this comes up, mere possession of a firearm is NOT enough for a cop to demand a license and is NOT an indication of a crime being committed.

What constitutes a "demand" to see your LTC? As opposed to, "You got a permit for that?"

Given the facts in the OP, what is unlawful about the cop's action, in reference to the linked MGLs?

 

[Mike-Mike]

What constitutes a "demand" to see your LTC? As opposed to, "You got a permit for that?"

Given the facts in the OP, what is unlawful about the cop's action, in reference to the linked MGLs?

What's the difference between:

Hey, where do you think you're going?

And

Hold it right there.

The answer is - everything is the difference.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Executive]

A few thoughts:

There is certainly a point at which some resistance should be added to the interaction. The first "can I see your LTC?" is probably not the best choice.

Who carries a J-frame in the front pocket of tight jeans?


Chris

 

[MisterHappy]

My point is, in the OP, "Yes," and walking off might not have been the best answer.

Since you state that there is a difference, please clarify what constitutes a "demand"; is there a specific phrase that elevates it from conversation to something more?

eta: Do you think that in a PRM court, the cop's question would NOT be considered enough of a demand?

 

[GlockJock]

Just imagine Opie on Sons of Anarchy...if Opie was about 5 foot 7 (and his beer belly was about 7 foot 5).....I was definitely the Hottie in the crowd...

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Perhaps but I live in a very small town where every single cop knows me well. We've done many things together and had a great time over the many years I've lived here.

If I'm doing nothing wrong what the hell do I want a confrontation for?

I would use the "papers in order" line while handing over the LTC. It's not that different than showing a driving license.

 

[Mike-Mike]

My point is, in the OP, "Yes," and walking off might not have been the best answer.

Since you state that there is a difference, please clarify what constitutes a "demand"; is there a specific phrase that elevates it from conversation to something more?

eta: Do you think that in a PRM court, the cop's question would NOT be considered enough of a demand?

Simply a question is not a demand. A LEO needs to have a reason to demand a LTC. He does not need an reason to ask a question. Anything with a question mark on the end of it can't be a demand.

I need to see your LTC. Would most likely fit the bill.

 

[GPP]

That was the second thing we told him.. the first being "Dude, why didn't you just ask about probable cause" or whatever...

Good thing he didn't, I guess. Can't say I'm shocked that the law reads that way here...

Im curious, what age bracket do you and your compadres fall in?

 

[GlockJock]

Not sure the nature of the printing, but maybe your friend should look into one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/DESANTIS-Pock... superfly&qid=1465333833&ref_=sr_1_15&sr=8-15

Interesting thing is he was actually using a DeSantis, but without the extra "flap" that the Superfly offers (I think it's called the "Nemesis" without the flap)...the "flap" that provides "additional concealment" as the manufacturer says...I actually use a Superfly for my G43 and another fore my G26, depending on which I'm carrying...But his Nemesis is an old, well broken in one and the gun really has molded to it, so in his pocket (again, light blue faded jeans), the more we talked about it afterwards, the more we did tell him to get a new or better pocket holster...like the Superfly....or wear different pants...