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Is S&W retarded?
- Thread starter 2A_Swayze
- Start date
To add insult to injury sometimes the factory rear sights on shields etc feel like they're f***ing welded in there. S&W either has poor QC on the dovetails or they just dont
give a shit. Maybe theyre better now but I remember friends removing and installing them and they used to be brutal.
Tnen we had another guy on here where the fronts on an M&P 9 pro were off according to what the spec is supposed to be, resulting in fronts that either fell off or similar. S&W wouldn't even admit it was wrong.
Fleshwound
NES Member
Yea I get it. I bought the BG380 when it first came out. I needed a literal pocket pistol. It's the lightest thing out there and shoots every time I press the trigger. Plus it was cheap. I carry a 365XL normally or my Smith 642 38. I went back to Sigs from Smith due to the actual design and reputation, the TDA is my thing. My 228, and 226 are my go-to guns. Although I do have the SP2022 in 9mm that I'm kind of fond of. Believe it or not, the only problems I've ever had with S&W are the revolvers. Had 3 new ones, 2, 357 and a 22, had to send them back for binding in the cylinder. I guess nothing is perfect. Have a good night and Merry Christmas!
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A S&W service rep told me it a POS gun designed to last 300 rounds.
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That is probably the .380 S&W I was thinking about.
AHM
NES Member
So craptastic the photographer doesn't bother to white-out the S/N?One of the worst handguns ever. You had to pinch the magazine and rip it out, it's so cheap there is no slide lock or mag release....![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
There are probably 1950's Japanese sheet metal wind-up walking toy robots
that shoot sparks out of their mouth built with fewer roll pins.
Couldn't they at least standardize on a common diameter of
coat-hanger wire and chop it to length?
LMAO. Read what you wrote ...
- Performance Center
- Nice
- once you replace the trigger
The point of Performance center is to get a great gun, not a piece of sh*t kit that needs parts replaced because it is NOT nice.
If you are paying more for the "Performance Center" why the f*ck are you dumping more money into it to make it not s*ck? .... buy the non Performance Center gun and by the time you are done you will have a better gun at a lower total cost.
There is nothing perfonance about Performance Center anymore. They basically take a piece of sh*t 15 year old Honda Civic, slap a plastic body kit, put a fart can on it and sell it as this racing machine.
Most accurate statement of both 2021 and 22.
I don't know what happened, used to be you'd get a p.c. and it was top tier compared to the non-p.c. version.
Now they're just high dollar kit guns.
Daddy Mac
NES Member
Whoa Nelly. If I had feelings, you kids might have hurt them. I've been all hot and horny for a PC model 19 Carry Comp 3". I'm a bit of a S&W revolver fan and this model seems nicer than the stock unit. I thought we all got trophies?
Rockrivr1
NES Member
This is my thought. I’d buy a S&W revolver all day any day. Semi autos, not so much.
AHM
NES Member
Never let the toll gate hit you in the a§§ on the way out.They just rolled out of Massachusetts
Give them a break
Lol I would too but that's sort of damning with faint praise, their revolver QC sucks as well, but they know they have a captive audience, they know their market isn't going to go Ruger, usually.
When one buys a smith theres a non zero % chance that the gun will need service out of the box. We all just eat it up front, or buy used.
![[rockon]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/020.gif "Rockon [rockon]")
tuna
NES Member
The only S&W I’d consider is one where the firing pin is still on the hammer. Pretty much a guaranteed winner.
I remember when the classic line came out and I was looking at one (Triple Lock or Model 25? One of those I think) at their store in Springfield. I was real excited about it, but when I got to see it close up I was like WTF? The clerk was trying to explain away the Hillary hole and I still couldn’t get over how a “classic” had a screwed up hammer. Garbage.
I remember when the classic line came out and I was looking at one (Triple Lock or Model 25? One of those I think) at their store in Springfield. I was real excited about it, but when I got to see it close up I was like WTF? The clerk was trying to explain away the Hillary hole and I still couldn’t get over how a “classic” had a screwed up hammer. Garbage.
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So let me see if I get your argument: The marketing department gave a little overly ambitious name to its guns and therefore the guns are crap. Riiight. this is indeed a very good reason to crap on actual guns without trying them! What do we call people who hate on someone or something based entirely on labels instead of trying out for themselves?
Ah, yes, your second point: why spend money on a trigger when you buy an S&W Performance Center gun. These guns, despite the misleading label, are still sub-$7000 guns. Just like ANY sub-$700 gun, they can be improved tremendously by replacing two things: the trigger and the sights(sights are less so since they are cheap and plentiful so manufacturers are finally using decent sights). I dare you to find ANY handgun(not revolver) for under $700 that has a great trigger out of the box.
Dude, it is not just marketing, the actual guns are sh*t.
I will give you my experience with the 929 because it is the last P.C. gun I will ever buy.
9 mm ... cylinder cut to .357/.358 - a .356 9mm bullet passes right through the cylinder. A .357 passes through 3 of the 8 cylinders. This is 100% a corporate desicion to use their .357 cutting tools for a 9mm to maybe save a couple of bucks per gun, on a $1200 gun.
Front sight = pure sh*t and can't be easily replaced, you need to drill the new sight. Great job on a competition gun. They don't even make an effort to put a good competition sight.
Red dot attachment = non existent. Machining the gun - f*ck that, ain't nobody got time for dat. You want a dot, remove the rear sight. You want to switch back, LOL, go sight it in again.
Trigger = single action, awesome (it is almost impossible to f*ck up the single action part, even a Taurus is fairly smooth) - double action? LOL, total piece of sh*t.
Comp - a total joke. So bad, most people throw it away.
All the internals need a ton of polishing.
Hammer needs to be replaced.
All springs need to be replaced.
I wish there was a way to fix the cylinder, I tried to get a blank and have a company cut it. SW might sell me one to fix their POS cylinder.
After doing all the work the gun shoots great with .358 bullets or .357 plated.
Not a lot of performance from the Performance Center in a gun they sell as "competition ready".
They sell kit guns. If you buy with that expectation you won't be disappointed.
I knew I was going to have to do work to it, but the cylinder was a surprise, that really bothered me because it is a clear example of something pushed by some corporate c*nt looking at a spreadsheet, a c*nt that most likely doesn't even own a gun.
Charge me $50 more and do it right the first time. Instead they show how little they care, they are the Walmart / Amazon of gun manufacturers, push a ton of low quality junk.
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so let me get this straight: based on your experience with the SINGLE model, and a revolver at that, you're assuming all S&Ws are crap?
On top of that, you yourself admitted that you knew ahead of time that you would need to work on the gun. Sounds like you would not like ANY gun factory stock, regardless of the brand.
I wonder if you even bought a new sub-$700 striker-fired gun in the past 10 years. If you did, you would know that they ALL require work to make them run at a competitive level. ANY BRAND!
The fact of the matter is, not all S&W guns are bad, and no, they are not all great either. As with ANY brand, some models are good and some are not. S&W 500 shorty is good. Full-size MP is good. New Shield Plus is not bad either.
fencer
NES Member
I think there are more than a few.
The Sig 320 and 365's come to mind.
Most of the budget 1911's have decent triggers, even the Ruger. But also RIA, Remington R1 and Auto Ordinance.
But there are also offerings from Walther, Canik and CZ and even the Barretta M9 is about $600-$650. The CZ P10 is about $550 and so is the 07
I'm not a Glock guy but the 19 is about $500 msrp.
Of course, the term "great trigger out of the box" is very subjective, but I think all of the guns listed above come with factory triggers that are much better than the S&W.
YMMV
Let's see if you can understand this:
On one hand you have your average gun, yes, maybe the trigger is a piece of sh*t, and maybe that is expected. We can agree on that.
On the other hand, you are paying more for a gun that is supposed to be better, a gun that people are supposed to pay more attention to, maybe use better materials or a match barrel, or whatever. A gun that is supposed to come from PERFORMANCE Center. Notice the word PERFORMANCE.
A gun from PERFORMANCE center not having at least a decent trigger (not the most amazing trigger ever) is unacceptable. On top of all the other issues they have.
Fleshwound
NES Member
Yikes! Never aw one of those!One of the worst handguns ever. You had to pinch the magazine and rip it out, it's so cheap there is no slide lock or mag release....
View attachment 553709
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It appears you're hung up on the word "performance". Sounds like you got suckered into a marketing ploy.
You keep making assumptions when there is a CLEAR explanation of what makes a "Performance Center" gun. Let's take your 929 PC as an example. S&W website CLEARLY states what was done to the gun(Model 929 | Smith & Wesson) :
- removable compensator
- titanium cylinder
- chromed trigger and hammer(for appearance purposes)
- cut to make it easy to use moon clips
