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Is S&W retarded?

2A_Swayze said:
I mean I guess I can't argue there, I will say in the past year or so may 1st time gun owners joined the market so the EZ is like their training wheels. For someone like me looking for sexy, the EZ is the fat chick who has a crush on you. The only reason I own a 2.0 is because I didn't know how to buy a Glock back then. Since I'm proficient with the my m&p, I've spent 100s to mod it, bought multiple holster, mags, and accessories for it I feel stuck. Long story short I either want all S&W or all Glocks and atm S&W is retarded.
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2A_Swayze said:
I mean I guess I can't argue there, I will say in the past year or so may 1st time gun owners joined the market so the EZ is like their training wheels. For someone like me looking for sexy, the EZ is the fat chick who has a crush on you. The only reason I own a 2.0 is because I didn't know how to buy a Glock back then. Since I'm proficient with the my m&p, I've spent 100s to mod it, bought multiple holster, mags, and accessories for it I feel stuck. Long story short I either want all S&W or all Glocks and atm S&W is retarded.
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Sammy said:
S&W last quarter financial results published on March 4th:
  • Quarterly net sales were $257.6 million compared with $127.4 million for the comparable quarter last year, an increase of 102.2%.
  • Gross margin for the quarter was 42.6% compared with 28% for the comparable quarter last year.
  • Quarterly GAAP net income was a record $62.3 million, or $1.12 per diluted share, compared with $4.2 million, or $0.08 per diluted share, for the comparable quarter last year.
  • Quarterly non-GAAP net income was $62.4 million, or $1.12 per diluted share, compared with $7.8 million, or $0.14 per diluted share, for the comparable quarter last year. GAAP to non-GAAP adjustments for income exclude costs related to the spin-off of the outdoor products and accessories business, COVID-19 related expenses, and other costs. For a detailed reconciliation, see the schedules that follow in this release.
  • Quarterly non-GAAP Adjusted EBITDAS was $89.8 million, or 34.9% of net sales, compared with $15.0 million, or 11.8% of net sales, for the comparable quarter last year.
So, to answer your question why aren't S&W release new products, well, they don't need to! They are selling their existing product like hotcakes! Instead of rushing to release new products, they are focusing on optimizing their production lines and building financial health.

Anyone who worked in a highly cyclical industry will tell you: when things are good, sell as much as you can because when the bottom falls out, you will need all your money and cool new products to survive!

The bottom WILL fall out from the firearms market. People who rushed to buy a gun because of fear will realize at some point that it was a rash decision and will try and sell the gun back to FFLs. FFLs will have a huge unsold inventory of mint guns. Why mint? Because of ammo shortage, most first-time gun owners would have purchased one box of ammo(if at all) FFL sold as part of new gun purchases. The massive inventory of essentially brand new guns will drive the prices of new(and used) guns making it VERY difficult for companies like S&W to sell new
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I doubt that all the newbs who recently purchased a gun will sell it after their fear subsides. If anything it will be the one gone they own forever. And the “fear” isn’t ending in 2021.
 
DPR said:
I doubt that all the newbs who recently purchased a gun will sell it after their fear subsides. If anything it will be the one gone they own forever. And the “fear” isn’t ending in 2021.
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I think you are very likely right about this. We have some of the worst gun control measures ever written already introduced in congress, along with Democratic control with most of them pledging for even more gun control.

The Panic won't end anytime soon, for sure. If congress pushes ahead with any gun control, it will get worse as people who have been sitting on stockpiles through this shortage and have so far avoided freaking out begin to start doing just that. If anything, I see this getting worse, at least through mid-term elections. If control of congress swings back to something less than full retard we might see a calming after that, but I don't expect it.

I don't see many of these first time buyers selling these guns back. I'm sure at least half or more don't even realize you can sell a gun. The ones who do end up going "omg!" will likely end up being those a**h***s who bring them to the "buy backs" for their $20 Walmart gift card. So a lot of the crappy M&Ps that flew off the shelves will take themselves out of circulation and give the antis a lot of nice PR photos in the process.
 
I never really understood the obsession with M&P's myself. Yea I got a couple that I bought back in the early 2010's when it was the newest kid on the block.... I've never tried the 2.0's so i'm not familiar with how they've improved them. Glock fan boy.....
 
BadBoyBilly said:
I never really understood the obsession with M&P's myself.
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yep, me also. but i do like the m&p 9c. i like that compact over any of the competitors latest and greatest offerings. best of all you can get one cheap...or you could before the insanity. i picked up a 9c in a shop for 299+tax otd with 6 mags with the pinky extenders. i also wanted a 357 sig compact to play with, couldn't find one so i bought a 40 and the extra barrel for not much more money. get a decent trigger on one and you got a s&w sleeper of the decade...my opinion.
 
amm5061 said:
I think you are very likely right about this. We have some of the worst gun control measures ever written already introduced in congress, along with Democratic control with most of them pledging for even more gun control.
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I disagree with your and DPR's assertion that the new shooters will keep their guns. Here's why:
  • In the mind of a progressive, there is no correlation between one's desire for self defense and 2nd amendment gun control. The same people who demanded more gun control measures after Newtown are the SAME people who went out and bought guns for the first time this summer. How do I know? I'm a classic liberal(I think nowadays people like me are called Libertarians) and I have a LOT of leftie friends.
  • Speaking of leftie friends, you are incorrectly assuming what the target of their fear is. Most of them were afraid of "Racist MAGA white supremacists". I know, most of you do not bother reading/watching progressive media(for a good reason too) but if you were primarily receiving your information from places like HuffPo or MSNBC you would have been bombarded by the idea that Trump voters would start a civil war if Trump lost. Yep, they are afraid of you and me, not ANTIFA or BLM riots. No. With that in mind, since nothing like that happened, they no longer have a reason to contradict their "anti-gun" mentality. A few more months, things die down and you will see a flood of guns going back to stores, being destroyed on the video to make some political point.
  • If you look at historical numbers of FID/LTC's issued, they all increase after a calamity(9/11, Newtown, etc) but decrease 5 years later when renewals come up. The vast majority of those who got the license, bought a gun, and went to the range just once during those 5 years: those people will not renew. If they don't renew, they will be required to surrender their gun to the police or sell it to an FFL. Most will try to get at least some monetary compensation.
  • When going through a gun safety course, one of the major unintended takeaways is the fact that gun control laws are extremely complicated and difficult to follow. I am personally aware of at least 20 friends/acquaintances of mine who took the class this past year. In the mind, unless a gun is unloaded and locked away in a safe, they are breaking the law and will go to prison. The fear of becoming a criminal makes many of them afraid of keeping a gun. This fear is like water dripping on a stone: it will slowly chip away their resolve to have a gun. When the fear of becoming a felon for owning a gun will exceed their fear of violence against them, they will sell the gun.
 
Sammy said:
I disagree with your and DPR's assertion that the new shooters will keep their guns. Here's why:
  • In the mind of a progressive, there is no correlation between one's desire for self defense and 2nd amendment gun control. The same people who demanded more gun control measures after Newtown are the SAME people who went out and bought guns for the first time this summer. How do I know? I'm a classic liberal(I think nowadays people like me are called Libertarians) and I have a LOT of leftie friends.
  • Speaking of leftie friends, you are incorrectly assuming what the target of their fear is. Most of them were afraid of "Racist MAGA white supremacists". I know, most of you do not bother reading/watching progressive media(for a good reason too) but if you were primarily receiving your information from places like HuffPo or MSNBC you would have been bombarded by the idea that Trump voters would start a civil war if Trump lost. Yep, they are afraid of you and me, not ANTIFA or BLM riots. No. With that in mind, since nothing like that happened, they no longer have a reason to contradict their "anti-gun" mentality. A few more months, things die down and you will see a flood of guns going back to stores, being destroyed on the video to make some political point.
  • If you look at historical numbers of FID/LTC's issued, they all increase after a calamity(9/11, Newtown, etc) but decrease 5 years later when renewals come up. The vast majority of those who got the license, bought a gun, and went to the range just once during those 5 years: those people will not renew. If they don't renew, they will be required to surrender their gun to the police or sell it to an FFL. Most will try to get at least some monetary compensation.
  • When going through a gun safety course, one of the major unintended takeaways is the fact that gun control laws are extremely complicated and difficult to follow. I am personally aware of at least 20 friends/acquaintances of mine who took the class this past year. In the mind, unless a gun is unloaded and locked away in a safe, they are breaking the law and will go to prison. The fear of becoming a criminal makes many of them afraid of keeping a gun. This fear is like water dripping on a stone: it will slowly chip away their resolve to have a gun. When the fear of becoming a felon for owning a gun will exceed their fear of violence against them, they will sell the gun.
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I partially agree. I’ve had lefty gun-owning friends tell me they need protection from the inevitable Proud Boys riots. True story. However, when has there ever been a historical example of gun panic-buying that was followed up with a surplus of used guns? It’s never happened and it’s stupid to plan for it. Even if it did, new shooters aren’t buying cool stuff. If there’s a surplus of used M&P9’s next year feel free to buy one.
 
Grendizer138 said:
I partially agree. I’ve had lefty gun-owning friends tell me they need protection from the inevitable Proud Boys riots. True story. However, when has there ever been a historical example of gun panic-buying that was followed up with a surplus of used guns? It’s never happened and it’s stupid to plan for it. Even if it did, new shooters aren’t buying cool stuff. If there’s a surplus of used M&P9’s next year feel free to buy one.
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Exactly right. I don't believe that the people being described will sell them back. I believe that, if they choose to divest themselves of the firearms they purchased, they will take them to police buybacks. This removes them from the supply pool, it does not reintroduce them to the market. Some will virtue signal cutting them up, like the dipshit who should've gone to jail for making an illegal SBR, but PP is right that the vast majority will want to get something back for them. I don't see them going back to gun stores to sell them back, though.
 
Grendizer138 said:
I partially agree. I’ve had lefty gun-owning friends tell me they need protection from the inevitable Proud Boys riots. True story. However, when has there ever been a historical example of gun panic-buying that was followed up with a surplus of used guns? It’s never happened and it’s stupid to plan for it. Even if it did, new shooters aren’t buying cool stuff. If there’s a surplus of used M&P9’s next year feel free to buy one.
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At the same token I think its silly to assume that even like 40% of these new gun buyers are moonbats/commies/progressives, though. Most of what I have seen by watching the industry closely in the past year is "previously uninvolved Rs" and independents buying guns because of the shit the commies are doing both to our government, media, and culture. Will some of these people flake out too? Sure. I don't think wholesale, though. I also think the draw-down time is going to be longer given other contributing factors.

I think most of these things are going to sit unused with a lock in them somewhere likely for years, until they get around to getting rid of it, if at all.
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
I'd rather see refreshes to the compact class like how Glock thinned out the G19 to the G48X.
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so they took a compact and reduced the capacity back to 10. hmmm, goin' the wrong way boys. in case no one was alive here to see the advent of the glock, it was capacity, capacity, capacity that turned their light on. unless glock has the foresight or insider information that there will be a national 10 round capacity restruction on mags coming soon. the g48/48x...another fad gun from a company grabbing at anything to stay relevant. should be marketed for people who carry purses.
 
greencobra said:
so they took a compact and reduced the capacity back to 10. hmmm, goin' the wrong way boys. in case no one was alive here to see the advent of the glock, it was capacity, capacity, capacity that turned their light on. unless glock has the foresight or insider information that there will be a national 10 round capacity restruction on mags coming soon. the g48/48x...another fad gun from a company grabbing at anything to stay relevant. should be marketed for people who carry purses.
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I like the idea of the G48X. All the advantages of the G19, but in a slightly thinner design that helps with daily carry. Don't get me wrong, I also carry a G19 sized pistol often. But if I can get the same performance and same round count (if I could actually use Shield Arms 15rd mags), then why not enjoy a slightly thinner gun?
 
2" snub nosed 5 shot .44 spl.
You can miss and not miss. The vapor trail or that 240 gr head creates enough of a vacuum going down range thats strong enough to peel the face off of whoever its intended for.

Or get one in .40 and it'll tear a rift in the fabric of the space/time continuum because its THAT POWERFUL
 
Sammy said:
I license, bought a gun, and went to the range just once during those 5 years: those people will not renew. If they don't renew, they will be required to surrender their gun to the police or sell it to an FFL. Most will try to get at least some monetary compensation.
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Many will just forget to renew and risk the civil fine for possession on an expired LTC.
 
sshamrockk said:
Well, Smith & Wesson just had a product announcement. They are releasing a Shield plus. It's 10+1 with a 13+1 extended mag. Performance models will have 4" ported barrels and optics cuts.


View: https://youtu.be/WRugstCi-HQ
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I like how the ad is all like edgelord showing someone who carries appendix AND is left handed. [laugh]
ReluctantDecoy said:
I get why S&W did the Shield Plus, but I'm tired of micro compacts. I'd rather see refreshes to the compact class like how Glock thinned out the G19 to the G48X.
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Lol distinction without a difference, it's the same fad.
 
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Based on the longevity of the ammo run, I think the new owners are shooting, or trying to anyway, and a few have learned to hoard even.
 
drgrant said:
I like how the ad is all like edgelord showing someone who carries appendix AND is left handed. [laugh]

Lol distimction without a difference, it's the same fad.
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Fad or gradual improvements? If every new gun was just a fad, we'd all still be using single action revolvers or some type of flint lock pistol.
 
ReluctantDecoy said:
Fad or gradual improvements? If every new gun was just a fad, we'd all still be using single action revolvers or some type of flint lock pistol.
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Both. Again, It's possible for something to be fundamentally pretty dumb but still have staying power or meet some perceived need. Think like crossover SUVs, same thing. Well, not quite -that- bad. [rofl]

ETA: i owned a Glock 48. I didn't think it was earth shattering. I transferred it to a friend who needed a gun. Maybe ill get a 43x someday or a 365... for the hell of it. I'm certainly not in a rush. The category of guns just isn't that invigorating....


View: https://youtu.be/htS2zKhTXvI
 
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Rob Boudrie said:
Many will just forget to renew and risk the civil fine for possession on an expired LTC.
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I believe possession of a weapon without a valid FID/LTC in Massachusetts is a criminal offense

drgrant said:
At the same token I think its silly to assume that even like 40% of these new gun buyers are moonbats/commies/progressives, though. Most of what I have seen by watching the industry closely in the past year is "previously uninvolved Rs" and independents buying guns because of the shit the commies are doing both to our government, media, and culture. Will some of these people flake out too? Sure. I don't think wholesale, though. I also think the draw-down time is going to be longer given other contributing factors.

I think most of these things are going to sit unused with a lock in them somewhere likely for years, until they get around to getting rid of it, if at all.
Click to expand...
There is a hard stop at 5 year period that will trigger surrender/destruction/sale of firearms due to the expiration of the LTC. Based on historical data of licenses (re)issued in MA, as published on mass.gov, there is indeed a 20-30% drop in license (re)issues 5 years after a major event(ex. 9/11, Sandyhook, etc). That means 30-40% will need to get rid of their guns. If those folks bought just one gun, there is going to be tens of thousands of guns to surrender/destroy/sell.
 
Sammy said:
I believe possession of a weapon without a valid FID/LTC in Massachusetts is a criminal offense
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No, it's not, if you have an expired LTC its basically a stay out of jail card. A lot of people do not know this.

Sammy said:
There is a hard stop at 5 year period that will trigger surrender/destruction/sale of firearms due to the expiration of the LTC. Based on historical data of licenses (re)issued in MA, as published on mass.gov, there is indeed a 20-30% drop in license (re)issues 5 years after a major event(ex. 9/11, Sandyhook, etc). That means 30-40% will need to get rid of their guns. If those folks bought just one gun, there is going to be tens of thousands of guns to surrender/destroy/sell.
Click to expand...

Lol, not sure if serious, when your LTC expires, the Waffen SS don't roll up to you house in a black van and collect your guns, dude. You're also making a great assumption that every LTC holder even bought a gun. I have personally known a bunch of LTC holders that never bought a single gun. My ex was one of them, and she had hers for two consecutive terms, no
gun. I had a customer who has maintained his over 20 years and just bought his FIRST handgun. There are a lot of "token" licenses out there that people use to keep their options
open.
 
drgrant said:
Lol, not sure if serious, when your LTC expires, the Waffen SS don't roll up to you house in a black van and collect your guns, dude. You're also making a great assumption that every LTC holder even bought a gun. I have personally known a bunch of LTC holders that never bought a single gun. My ex was one of them, and she had hers for two consecutive terms, no
gun. I had a customer who has maintained his over 20 years and just bought his FIRST handgun. There are a lot of "token" licenses out there that people use to keep their options
open.
Click to expand...
A couple of points to unpack here:
  • I don't think a "Waffen SS" was part of my argument. I do not even list confiscation as a significant action that takes place. There are only 3 major actions that will take place: sale, surrender/buyback to the police, or personal destruction. Even out of those three, only the first two will be a major consideration.
  • Regarding every new LTC buying a gun. Even if not every new LTC buys a gun, we are still talking about tens of thousand of guns. Case in point: following Sandyhook, there were just under 120,000 LTC/FID's issued. Five years later, only 85,000 LTC's were issued. Assuming that both numbers contain the same ratio of renewals and new LTC's, we are talking about a drop of 35,000 LTC's. Let's assume that only 50% of those folks have purchased a weapon, we are still talking about 15,000+ guns that need to be sold/surrendered/destroyed.
  • Another point, not covered yet in this debate is the fact that the price of guns is rising over time. Someone who bought an AK in 1990 for $100 can now sell it for $3000! Yes, this is an extreme example BUT it does demonstrate the point that gun prices continue to go up over time. Now imagine you're a reluctant gun owner in the year 2025 who has gone out and spent $500 on a gun in 2020. You are facing a $100 renewal fee and continued concern over someone stealing your gun and using it in a crime or you have a child and worry that they may get their hands on your gun when you're not home. These are stressful thoughts! Now imagine, the person sees that the same gun as theirs is getting sold for $700 on a used gun market. that's a $200 increase from what they paid. Add the renewal fee and one is looking at a $300 they could have if they sold the gun and did not renew.
The trajectory of gun prices and the litigious onslaught of anti-gun groups on manufacturers reminds me of the small aviation manufacturing industry. From the post-war 1940s until the mid-1970s, the price of a new Cessna or a Piper was basically equal to the average annual income of a blue-collar family with a single breadwinner. Then it became fashionable to sue manufacturers for dumb things pilots did like running out of fuel or trying to buzz a friend's house. Companies like Cessna continued to try and sell planes with modest price increases but were completely forced out of the small airplane market by 1984. Cessna resumed making airplanes again in 1998 but at 10 times the price of the identical airplanes made in 1965.
 
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