I'm getting really depressed

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The Boston Globe
A project on BB guns is rejected in Amherst
8th-graders told idea is dangerous

By Associated Press | June 12, 2005

AMHERST -- Two middle-school students who spent months working on a science project to prove how dangerous BB guns can be were disqualified from the state middle school science fair -- because BB guns are too dangerous.

The two Amherst Regional Middle School eighth-graders, Nathan C. Woodard and Nathaniel A. Gorlin-Crenshaw, spent seven months researching and testing their hypothesis that BB guns can be deadly, and that children should not use them. Minors cannot purchase BB guns, but they can receive them as gifts.

The students said they proved that BB guns can penetrate a human to cause a fatal injury; pellets can penetrate farther than BBs; and clothing affects how far a BB and pellet will penetrate.

The boys spent about $200 on ballistics gelatin, which has the density and consistency of human flesh, to use during their tests.

The tests were done under the supervision of a science teacher, Jennifer D. Welborn, and Woodard's mother, Sharon L. Downs.

''We put a lot of time into this -- every Monday and Thursday since November," Gorlin-Crenshaw was quoted as saying in The Republican of Springfield. ''We devoted a weekend to the testing."

Ten days before the event June 4 at Worcester Polytechnic Institute, they were told not to attend.

''We had everything ready except gluing the poster," Woodard said. ''We got an e-mail that the project was hazardous and it couldn't be shown, because they didn't want to encourage kids to use ballistics."

Nancy G. Degon, vice president of Massachusetts State Science Fair Inc. and cochairwoman of the middle school fair, said fair rules prohibit hazardous substances and devices.

She said that she had not received a research plan from the boys, and that if she had, their project would have been rejected immediately.

The students and Welborn said they had sent in the plan.

''The scientific review committee does not consider science projects involving firearms to be safe for middle school students," Degon said. ''We've never considered guns before. We've rejected BB guns in the past."

They boys were invited to present their findings to some judges and to receive a certificate of accomplishment, but they rejected the offer because they had not been allowed to compete.

Woodard and Gorlin-Crenshaw said they were insulted by the invitation.

''I see their point of view. I don't agree with it," said Woodard, who used his father's BB gun for the testing. ''I was really disappointed. We had a good point to prove."

The pupils said they would send their findings to the Amherst Police Department for review, which has had to deal with the use of BB guns frequently in crimes.
© Copyright 2005 Globe Newspaper Company.
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There is a huge divide between the hilltowns (where we are), and those 2 places. Unfortunately they are moving out here too,but us townies keep them in line. :D
 
They'd be in denial though Tony. To them BB guns are the devil you know. When Alan was in school they were horrfied that he hunts.
 
The bad part: it wasn't just some local fruitbats, but the state committe that screwed the kids.

The good part: we've got at least two hard corps RKBA supporters down the road. Absolutely nothing makes somebody more solid than getting the sort of simple-minded, self-righteous abuse these two kids got.

I suppose that next year environmental science projects will also be ruled out, since they might involve harm to algae. A nice book report would probably make the point just as well, and be a lot safer all around. "My Science Project: Comrade Lysenko tell us that ..."

Ken
 
What really blows my mind is that the board had a PERFECT setup - the kids said that they had proved that a BB gun could cause a fatal injury. And these idiots (does the phrase "knee-jerk liberals" mean anything to you?) passed up on showing this to a captive audience!

I don't know whether to weep or cheer. Weep is more likely, since I entered more than one science fair when I was a kid.

Ross
 
Maybe someone should show them the story about more kids dying in pools than are killed by guns. By thw way...has anyone ever seen a story about someone dying because of a BB gun????? [roll]
 
Lynne said:
has anyone ever seen a story about someone dying because of a BB gun????? [roll]

Hell, I was waiting to see the results of their experiments!!! :D

Maybe they were assuming that the person got hit in the eye? There was that girl killed in Boston last year by the pepper pellet. I wonder what the ballistics for the pellets are? Weight and muzzle velocity? Any of our board members in blue have any idea?

Ross
 
dwarven1 said:
Lynne said:
has anyone ever seen a story about someone dying because of a BB gun????? [roll]

Hell, I was waiting to see the results of their experiments!!! :D

Maybe they were assuming that the person got hit in the eye? There was that girl killed in Boston last year by the pepper pellet. I wonder what the ballistics for the pellets are? Weight and muzzle velocity? Any of our board members in blue have any idea?

Ross

Anything can kill someone given the right spot or force used. But if all I had to defend myself was a BB gun - I'd probably use it like a base ball bat.
 
You have to think like a liberal

Which isn't really thinking of course...

But, iif you put yourself in their "brain pattern," here's their logic:

Guns kill people, therefore guns are bad, per se.

People who like little guns eventually like bigger guns...which are bad, per se.

The way to keep "bad" guns from killing people is to keep people from
enjoying shooting guns at an early age.

Therefore, if you stop children from enjoying ANY sort of a firearm
beginning with squirt guns, pop guns and BB guns, then they won't grow
up wanting to own "bad" big guns. That's why BB guns are now "bad."

Eventually then, as a result of these regulations, the world will be safe for priests and MJ to do whatever they want to anyone because helpless people can't fight back.

That is how liberals think.

Now, I'v e spawned and raised two boys. I expect the next step from the nannies in Cambridge is to pass a law that says the first time a two year old boy points his index finger at another child and says, "Bang!" his finger must be amputated.

Makes sense to me.

I'm going home now.
 
Then there are parents like the rest of us who teach our kids at a young age the guns are not evil,and teach them safety early on. Alan grew up with them all his life and we never had a problem with him. He also started hunting at the age of 5 with my husband and father-in-law. When he was old enough to take the hunter safety course we had him do that so he could get his FID card. And his DI's wondered why he knews so much and can take apart and and put them back together in his sleep. [roll]
 
My mother thought (hell, still thinks!) that guns are Evil... I had cap pistols and water pistols, but never a BB gun. So naturally, when I turned 21, I got my FID and my first Pistol Purchase Permit and promptly bought a .357 Magnum. Haven't shot anyone yet... in spite of what my mother and sister thought.

Taking the hunter safety course this summer and will be going hunting this fall with a friend in Grafton - he has 15 acres where he says there are lots of deer. :) With any luck, and some skill, I hope to have a freezer full of Bambi this winter. Yum! Venison chops rubbed with a split clove of garlic and pan-fried in butter - DEE-licious! Then I have to get one of the Past Masters at my Lodge to divulge his venison stew recipe...

Ross
 
Ross,

Ah, the true secrets of a Belly Mason! [roll]

Reminds me . . . when a good friend at Microsoft in WA became a Mason, I went looking for the "working tools of a Mason" [twisted] tie clip that I had seen many years before . . . a fork and knife! Had a hell of a time finding this, but eventially found something acceptable and gave it to him when I had dinner with him in WA! :p
 
LenS said:
Ah, the true secrets of a Belly Mason! [roll]

The Knife & Fork Degree

I do not attend the meetings,
for I've not the time to spare.
But every time they have a feast,
You will surely find me there.

I cannot help with the degrees,
For I do not know the work.
But I can applaud the speakers,
and handle a knife and fork.

I'm so rusty in the ritual,
that it seems like Greek to me.
But practice has made me perfect
In the Knife and Fork degree.

A friend gave me a wallet card with this verse many years ago.
 
Thanks, very cute and probably appropriate for some!

Too bad all this didn't happen >1 year ago. The Police Square Club (I'm VP) and Blue Hill Lodge (Canton) ran a Table Lodge last year.
 
Not to change the subject too much. But I was brought up with firearms. Hell, I was given a .22 before I had a BB gun. But I was also taught firearm safety.

My family made me read the manual and be able to clean it and such before I was allowed to shoot it on my grandfathers land. And, I wasn't allowed to handle it without my grandfather, mother, etc there with me.

I plan on doing the same with my children. The only difference between my family and now is I have to have a 1200 pound safe. Not like when I was growing up and you could find a pistol somewhere in every room and a rifle or shotgun behind most doors.

Hell, my grandfather still has many of his "Prize" rifles in an oak case where the only thing from getting into them is a cheap lock and some glass panes. Don't think that you can do that up here.
 
C-pher, yes the law in MA is locked and any cheesy lock or glass doors with 10-cent lock is OK. Luckily they didn't get into a safety testing program for locks!
 
LenS said:
C-pher, yes the law in MA is locked and any cheesy lock or glass doors with 10-cent lock is OK. Luckily they didn't get into a safety testing program for locks!

So, your right to defend yourself is further hampered by a law that says you cannot have your home defense weapon readily accessible?
 
TonyD said:
LenS said:
C-pher, yes the law in MA is locked and any cheesy lock or glass doors with 10-cent lock is OK. Luckily they didn't get into a safety testing program for locks!

So, your right to defend yourself is further hampered by a law that says you cannot have your home defense weapon readily accessible?

YOU ARE CORRECT SIR!!!!!!
 
TonyD said:
So, your right to defend yourself is further hampered by a law that says you cannot have your home defense weapon readily accessible?

Only for the uncreative. You can't just leave guns lying around as some of us used to do. Of course you can simply reinforce the habit and carry whether you're at home or someplace else. That way you don't accidently leave home without it. The other approach is the old "In case of emergency, break glass." I know someone who keeps a loaded gun (What's that word? Oh, yeah, secured.) secured in a locked cabinet with a 1/8" balsa wood top. I suspect it would take about as much time to open as a retention strap.

Ken

Edited by LenS, Mod: Ken I changed the color from cyan to blue, as it was totally unreadable with the silver/gray desktop option that I (and many others) use.
 
MrsWildweasel said:
Yeah, Aren't you glad you live in the South?

Well, I don't anymore. But except for me, the rest of my family is still down there.

And I know some people that have a pistol with an unloced trigger lock next to their bed, and if they were checked, they will just close it when they pick it up. But if someone were to break in, they would be ready.

I've been thinking about those two numbered pistol safes where it springs open when you type in the code for next to the bed...

But I do like that box idea.
 
TonyD said:
MrsWildweasel said:
Yeah, Aren't you glad you live in the South?

Absolutely! BTW - it was 96 degrees in the shade yesterday. We won't even go into the humidity. I think the heat index was 115.

Current weather in Boston, Massachusetts - 53 degrees and 86% humidity.
Current weather in Ketchikan, Alaska - 52 degrees and 80% humidity.

The big difference is that the forecast for Boston is a high of 55 degrees, while Ketchikan is expecting 69 degrees today. Interestingly enough, Alaska honors Massachusetts carry permits, according to Packing.org.

My flight leaves tomorrow morning. :)
 
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