AFS Range Suicide - No. Attleboro

LenS said:
New guy, so you'd like to doubly punish the innocent family left behind too? Perhaps you'll feel better when they all go on welfare since they lost a breadwinner and nobody paid out the life insurance policy?? [NOTE: I am not advocating that if someone plans their suicide and then buys mega life insurance that the company pay off, just that if it happened that they bought life insurance a year or two ago and sudden tragedy sends them to this dark end that the family left behind shouldn't be made to suffer a double loss.]

Off hand I can recall 4 people that I've known who committed suicide, I never had a clue . . .
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How is it doubly punishing the family? The suicide is one punishment, everything that follows from the proper recording of it are part of that.

Most life insurance policies have a 2 year window where they won't pay out for suicides, so the odds of being in that window are slim. Instead you sound like you're defending a chief arbitrarily lying to the family, committing what amounts to insurance fraud, and furthering the notion that guns are a threat to everyone who comes into contact with them. Does the family deserve the truth? Does the historical record deserve the truth? Would you rather have the gun death numbers reflect one more fatal accident when they should really show a suicide - something that the person could very well have accomplished by other means?
 
LenS said:
Off hand I can recall 4 people that I've known who committed suicide, I never had a clue . . .
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I'm sensing a trend here.

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RIP. Based on a couple of quick searches, she graduated from Bridgewater State last year and had enlisted in the Air Force and completed Basic. She sounds like she had her life on track and much to look forward to at 22. Saddened by this.
 
mav said:
RIP. Based on a couple of quick searches, she graduated from Bridgewater State last year and had enlisted in the Air Force and completed Basic. She sounds like she had her life on track and much to look forward to at 22. Saddened by this.
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+1
 
GaryO said:
My life insurance policy states that it would not pay out on a suicide for the 1st year the policy was in effect so if i read it correctly, after the 1st year it would pay out.
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2 years is pretty much the standard, but after whatever the period is the policy would absolutely pay.
 
This saddens me so much I can't imagine the pain the family is feeling right now. My kids are about the same age, my son and I have shot at AFS, I can't imagine loosing one. She had so much going for herself, College grad, just finished Air force basic training. So very sad! RIP Dear!
 
new guy said:
How is it doubly punishing the family? The suicide is one punishment, everything that follows from the proper recording of it are part of that.

Most life insurance policies have a 2 year window where they won't pay out for suicides, so the odds of being in that window are slim. Instead you sound like you're defending a chief arbitrarily lying to the family, committing what amounts to insurance fraud, and furthering the notion that guns are a threat to everyone who comes into contact with them. Does the family deserve the truth? Does the historical record deserve the truth? Would you rather have the gun death numbers reflect one more fatal accident when they should really show a suicide - something that the person could very well have accomplished by other means?
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I was explaining a situation, that's all. And the incident that the Chief and I were discussing happened >30 years ago, the person was probably in his 60s when he did that (he was very sick I am told) and perhaps the rules were different then and insurance may not have paid off at all, I don't know. Long before Glocks were invented, I recall reading/hearing about many a person "accidentally" killing himself while cleaning his gun . . . I was always pretty certain that all/almost all of them were suicides reported in a way to lessen the grief for the families left behind. I suspect (no proof) that covering it up as an accident was probably very widespread.

As for stats, they are all a bunch of lies anyway and I really don't care if they are skewed by this or not . . . they are already skewed by plenty of people anyway.
 
Just a horrible event all around. So sad for everyone involved. Her brother has to be a mess, her parents must be devastated and the poor guy working at the range who tried to offer first aid will have the images in his head for the rest of his life.

Tragic doesn't even begin to describe this. So many lives changed forever.
 
I was always pretty certain that all/almost all of them were suicides reported in a way to lessen the grief for the families left behind.
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Religion used to pay a greater part in life (in the "old days" it was axiomatic that all good people were members of a church), and the Catholics in particular got bent out of shape over suicides (unforgiveable sin and all that).
 
fencer said:
Just a horrible event all around. So sad for everyone involved. Her brother has to be a mess, her parents must be devastated and the poor guy working at the range who tried to offer first aid will have the images in his head for the rest of his life.

Tragic doesn't even begin to describe this. So many lives changed forever.
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+1
 
fencer said:
Just a horrible event all around. So sad for everyone involved. Her brother has to be a mess, her parents must be devastated and the poor guy working at the range who tried to offer first aid will have the images in his head for the rest of his life.

Tragic doesn't even begin to describe this. So many lives changed forever.
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Yes. My heart goes out to her family especially her brother.
 
I received my LTC in February and called AFS to ask if I could just walk in and shoot my brand new SR22. The woman on the phone said I needed 5 hours of previous shooting experience or I could take their "Learn to Shoot" class. My only previous shooting experience was the live fire during the safety course two months prior. AFS' course included an instructor, a Mark II and 50 rounds for only $40 so I was happy to take the course and reinforce what I had learned so far. I went midweek and ended up being the only student so got a private lesson. The instructor was a young guy, I think his name is Justin, and he was pretty awesome. He covered all the safety rules plus how to hand someone a gun, squibs, hangfires, clearing jams, sight picture/how to aim, stance, grip. I learned a lot and felt I shot pretty well for a first timer. I went again a week later and notified the range master right away that it was my first time shooting on my own with a brand new gun so he should keep an eye on me. He was cool about it and checked in on me a few times. I asked him to take a few shots with my gun to confirm that the sights were properly aligned and he shot a perfect triangle around the bulls-eye, twice. I was shooting weaver stance and he came by to recommend I also try isosceles because moving to the weaver stance might not be possible in a self defense situation so I know he was observant enough to pick up on it. Granted, I've only been there twice but they seemed to have it together.
 
She chose a permanent solution to a temporary problem. She selfishly burdened others in her life and at the range. Her behavior reflects on no one but herself. My hope is that people are left with an appreciation for the sanctity of a human life.
 
beerjeep said:
She chose a permanent solution to a temporary problem. She selfishly burdened others in her life and at the range. Her behavior reflects on no one but herself. My hope is that people are left with an appreciation for the sanctity of a human life.
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Don't call someone selfish until you have walked in their shoes. No one knows what another lives with.
 
Ink said:
Don't call someone selfish until you have walked in their shoes. No one knows what another lives with.
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considering you can never truly know what people are going through does that mean we can never use the word selfish?

the same outcome for her could have been achieved with less impact to others... do I think she thought of all this? not likely, consumed by much worse thoughts I am sure

but I can see why some would consider her actions selfish in a way
 
the attitudes towards suicide here are pretty stupid and ignorant. Wish I could say I wasn't expecting to see that shit on the NES, but I'd be lying.

Sad.

I've known three people who have committed suicide, one a murder suicide. He was my barber (F him, no sympathy when you take someone else out). I seriously feel bad for anyone who hates their life so much that they could actually go through with killing themselves. That's A LOT of suffering/anguish/torment that clearly a lot of people around here don't know dick about. Most people who kill themselves aren't just feeling a little blue and weepy one day and decide to "selfishly" and "cowardly" end it all. They suffer in silence for years living an unbearable life.

My parent's neighbor's father just killed himself a month ago. I didn't know him personally but by all accounts he's been depressed his whole life.
 
BattleSnail said:
the attitudes towards suicide here are pretty stupid and ignorant. Wish I could say I wasn't expecting to see that shit on the NES, but I'd be lying.

Sad.

I've known three people who have committed suicide, one a murder suicide. He was my barber (F him, no sympathy when you take someone else out). I seriously feel bad for anyone who hates their life so much that they could actually go through with killing themselves. That's A LOT of suffering/anguish/torment that clearly a lot of people around here don't know dick about. Most people who kill themselves aren't just feeling a little blue and weepy one day and decide to "selfishly" and "cowardly" end it all. They suffer in silence for years living an unbearable life.

My parent's neighbor's father just killed himself a month ago. I didn't know him personally but by all accounts he's been depressed his whole life.
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no sympathy for someone who takes someone else out but sympathy for someone who takes themselves out next to someone or many people, scarring them for life?

I understand the issues behind suicide are dark and complex, I just have a hard time drawing the line you did

and like I said, I am fairly certain that if you reach that point, the impact your actions have on others is the furthest thing from your mind
 
mattyw said:
no sympathy for someone who takes someone else out but sympathy for someone who takes themselves out next to someone or many people, scarring them for life?

I understand the issues behind suicide are dark and complex, I just have a hard time drawing the line you did

and like I said, I am fairly certain that if you reach that point, the impact your actions have on others is the furthest thing from your mind
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My post wasn't directed at you, but I don't know. I think it's easy to condemn someone for offing themselves in front of people Yeah that's totally F'd up. But someone who's that mentally ill probably isn't even thinking rationally enough to consider how they're affecting these other people. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely feel for the people who had to witness that, but I feel worse for the person whose life is so inconceivably (to me anyways) terrible that they'd kill themselves. Of course we can all Monday morning quarterback this and say yeah should should have stayed home and ran the car in the garage, slit her wrists, ate a ton of pills and washed them down with a bottle of vodka etc, but I'm not sure it's really possible for mentally healthy people to even begin to grasp what's going on inside a truly suicidal person's head.
 

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