.357 vs 44 mag vs 10mm Bear gun

[MaroonedinMA]

I have a place a few towns over from P-Town. I find if I'm polite, The Bears realize I'm not what they're after and move along to the next snack leaving me to enjoy the view and salt air.

If I get REALY SCARED...I bring my girlfriend.

 

[Yankee1956]

What 10mm 1911 should I buy?

Colt Delta Elite looks nice of your looking for 1911 style

 

[Yankee1956]

I don't mean this to be condescending, but since you raised that you're new to large forested spaces: the dangers in NH are likely to be other people. I've come across black bear and moose, but the only times I've felt better for having a gun on me is coming across unfriendly or unpredictable people. Your "bear gun" is more likely used on someone that is willing to use violence to take your property or for people out of their mind on drugs.

oh I'm aware of shady people, especially out in the woods... You never know their intentions

 

[heck ya beaches]

Colt Delta Elite looks nice of your looking for 1911 style

Not bad. I was eye balling the Dan Wesson Kodiak and Bruin. Tactical styling doesn't really do it for me.

 

[heck ya beaches]

oh I'm aware of shady people, especially out in the woods... You never know their intentions

The worst I've come across was about 45 minutes into a trail with my toddler in his carrier and an extremely high man refusing to make eye contact while asking too many questions about my kid. Eventually he stopped following us, but I started getting worried that I'd have to make him stop following us.

 

[fencer]

I feel like all of NES has G20s now lol

Nope. But I do have a 44 magnum and a shoulder rig for it.


I have not been bitten by the 10mm bug, mostly because it is pretty darn close to 357 mag ballistically, but if I ever get that urge, I would likely go with a Sig 220 or a Colt Delta Elite. You have to admit, the Colt is just sweet.

But the 220 is no slouch either.

And if capacity is a concern, there is the 320- X10

And not to be overlooked, The Dan Wesson Kodiak, Just for cool factor alone.

 

[M1911]

What 10mm 1911 should I buy?

Colt Delta Elite.

 

[heck ya beaches]

Colt Delta Elite.

What would be your answer if I asked about 1911s in 45 ACP?

 

[M1911]

What would be your answer if I asked about 1911s in 45 ACP?

That depends on your budget. I’ve got some early Kimber series 1 guns that were quite good, but Series 2 guns were crap. Lots of folks (including a gunsmith I respect) feel that low end Springfields provide a good base on which to start, but my experience with two different Springfields was subpar.

I’ve heard good things about Dan Wesson but have no direct experience.

I have a Wilson Combat that I bought very well used and then put tens of thousands of rounds through it. This is my best 1911. That’s a much higher price point.

A little about 1911 actions. The traditional Series 70 style action does not have a firing pin safety. If you drop a Series 70 onto a hard surface muzzle down, the firing pin inertia will cause the firing pin to move forward. Drop from a high enough height and the firing pin inertia will overcome the firing pin retaining spring and hit the primer with enough force to discharge the round in the chamber. Gunsmith Hilton Yam did some testing and found this could occur with a drop of as little as 5’. Some manufacturers now use titanium firing pins (lighter so less inertia) and extra power firing pin retaining springs to reduce the chance of this occurring. Most of my 1911s are series 70. I’ve put titanium firing pins and extra power retaining springs in my 1911s, but have also never dropped them.

The Series 80 style 1911 action has a firing pin safety, so it is drop safe. It is harder to get a good trigger on Series 80 than a Series 70. Most (all?) recent Colts are Series 80, My Delta Elite is a Series 80. Sig 1911s are Series 80.

The Kimber Series 2 and some S&W 1911s (not the E-series, however) use a Swartz style firing pin safety. This style of safety disables the firing pin safety when you depress the grip safety. The advantage is that it doesn’t impact the trigger pull. The disadvantage is that it is apparently unreliable. I will not purchase a 1911 with a Swartz style safety. I think Kimber eventually gave up on the Swartz style safety, but I’m not sure. I haven’t bought a Kimber in over 20 years.

Some of the Sig 1911s use a proprietary slide profile. As a result, some Sig 1911s won’t fit in a standard 1911 Kydex holster. I have no direct experience with Sig 1911s.

The S&W E-series use a Series 70 style action. I have no direct experience with them.

 

[heck ya beaches]

That depends on your budget. I’ve got some early Kimber series 1 guns that were quite good, but Series 2 guns were crap. Lots of folks (including a gunsmith I respect) feel that low end Springfields provide a good base on which to start, but my experience with two different Springfields was subpar.

I’ve heard good things about Dan Wesson but have no direct experience.

I have a Wilson Combat that I bought very well used and then put tens of thousands of rounds through it. This is my best 1911. That’s a much higher price point.

A little about 1911 actions. The traditional Series 70 style action does not have a firing pin safety. If you drop a Series 70 onto a hard surface muzzle down, the firing pin inertia will cause the firing pin to move forward. Drop from a high enough height and the firing pin inertia will overcome the firing pin retaining spring and hit the primer with enough force to discharge the round in the chamber. Gunsmith Hilton Yam did some testing and found this could occur with a drop of as little as 5’. Some manufacturers now use titanium firing pins (lighter so less inertia) and extra power firing pin retaining springs to reduce the chance of this occurring. Most of my 1911s are series 70. I’ve put titanium firing pins and extra power retaining springs in my 1911s, but have also never dropped them.

The Series 80 style 1911 action has a firing pin safety, so it is drop safe. It is harder to get a good trigger on Series 80 than a Series 70. Most (all?) recent Colts are Series 80, My Delta Elite is a Series 80. Sig 1911s are Series 80.

The Kimber Series 2 and some S&W 1911s (not the E-series, however) use a Swartz style firing pin safety. This style of safety disables the firing pin safety when you depress the grip safety. The advantage is that it doesn’t impact the trigger pull. The disadvantage is that it is apparently unreliable. I will not purchase a 1911 with a Swartz style safety.

Some of the Sig 1911s use a proprietary slide profile. As a result, some Sig 1911s won’t fit in a standard 1911 Kydex holster. I have no direct experience with Sig 1911s.

The S&W E-series use a Series 70 style action. I have no direct experience with them.

This is very, very helpful. I did not know that about the actions.

I was thinking of a Wilson Combat or a Dan Wesson as I'm going to pass this off to my oldest kid, so I don't mind spending for something very nice. I like Sig, but I wasn't considering it for a 1911. Any feelings on a CZ?

I've come around to the idea of a 1911 as a carry gun, but I'm thinking more of a 1911 as a "my dad was saving this for me" piece of machinery.

 

[M1911]

Wilson makes great guns but you are talking $3k and up.

I don’t have any direct experience with Dan Wesson or CZ 1911s.

I recommend only getting a 1911 with a 4” or longer barrel. 1911s with shorter barrels have a reputation for unreliability.

 

[RKG]

Supposedly, the black bears that inhabit the woods in New Hampshire and Maine are all “timid,” and will defer to a stiff glare while one recites the Pledge of Allegiance in a loud voice. However, if a black bear is charging me at a full bell with hackles raised, I’m inclined to suspect he or she is the exception to the “they’re all timid” rule of thumb.

Circumstances permitting, my first choice in such a confrontation would be a 12 gauge loaded with slugs or a .45-70 Guide Gun loaded with 405 grain hard cast and something like 1,500 fps. And someone who will carry it for me while we’re walking in the woods.

So in the spirit of compromise, I pack a short-barreled N-Frame in .44 or .41, carried in a chest mount holster outside my coat or jacket. Since I’ll be lucky to get off more than one or two shots in the single-digit seconds between when I become aware of Charging Blackie and when he takes his first bite, round count is not part of the equation.

 

[heck ya beaches]

Wilson makes great guns but you are talking $3k and up.

I don’t have any direct experience with Dan Wesson or CZ 1911s.

I recommend only getting a 1911 with a 4” or longer barrel. 1911s with shorter barrels have a reputation for unreliability.

Thanks again, sir.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

Sure. But when you're about to die from some giant ass animal running at you shot placement isnt exactly a thing.

Debatable

 

[AFVet]

My wife and I live and work in the woods of the White Mountains for 6 months of every year. The biggest problem that we have seen with bears is that people are feeding them more and more, making them less afraid of humans and more dependent on them. Last year we had to evacuate and close 3 campgrounds due to human stupidity. The bears ended up being killed because nothing they did scared them off. That being said,,, the problems with the 2 legged animals has increased also, drugs have been part of the problem, but the "newly" (is this a real word) increased disregard for any other people's rights, safety, comfort, Sry, put your own word / words in there, I can't think of the one I really want to use. Has led to multiple incidents over the course of last summer and expect it to be worse this summer. It's sad to say but it seems to be the way that people are turning to. Paul.

 

[Woodsloafer]

I don't mean this to be condescending, but since you raised that you're new to large forested spaces: the dangers in NH are likely to be other people. I've come across black bear and moose, but the only times I've felt better for having a gun on me is coming across unfriendly or unpredictable people. Your "bear gun" is more likely used on someone that is willing to use violence to take your property or for people out of their mind on drugs.

This. Your probably more likely to get struck by lightning than have a bear attack you in New Hampshire/New England. If you are really concerned about a bear attack you are probably better off carrying bear spray. Carry a gun for defense against two-legged vermin. I've spent a lot of time bear hunting, walking into bait sites, baited sites, etc. and I've never been really concerned, but I will say I've definitely had the hair on my neck stand up when one has popped out on a narrow trail in front or behind me. Retrieving first time bear hunters off stands after dark is always fun, they stay in their tree stand because they were too nervous to come down out of the stand and walk out to where meeting point is.

.

 

[AJK129]

Nope. But I do have a 44 magnum and a shoulder rig for it.

View attachment 722694
I have not been bitten by the 10mm bug, mostly because it is pretty darn close to 357 mag ballistically, but if I ever get that urge, I would likely go with a Sig 220 or a Colt Delta Elite. You have to admit, the Colt is just sweet.

But the 220 is no slouch either.

And if capacity is a concern, there is the 320- X10

And not to be overlooked, The Dan Wesson Kodiak, Just for cool factor alone.

Id love a kodiak, maybe someday itll be my first 1911

 

[heck ya beaches]

This. Your probably more likely to get struck by lightning than have a bear attack you in New Hampshire/New England. If you are really concerned about a bear attack you are probably better off carrying bear spray. Carry a gun for defense against two-legged vermin. I've spent a lot of time bear hunting, walking into bait sites, baiting sites, etc. and I've never been really concerned, but definitely had the hair on my neck stand up when one has popped out on a narrow trail in front or behind me.

.

Bear fog takes the fight out of a person quite well. I assure you it wasn't as funny as my friend thought, but it definitely woke me right up. Thank god I could get right into the shower because see attachment

 

[Mountain]

I have a place a few towns over from P-Town. I find if I'm polite, The Bears realize I'm not what they're after and move along to the next snack leaving me to enjoy the view and salt air.

If I get REALY SCARED...I bring my girlfriend.

Those poor bears. Stop teasing them- that's cruel.

 

[cookiecutter]

I have an EAA Witness in 10mm ... shoots quite nicely and would give you 15+1 if you have full cap mags. But I don't carry it when I am concerned about bears ... then I carry a 1911 with a 460 Rowland conversion on it. Essentially lets you deliver 4 controlled pairs of 44mag per reload. I imagine that the 460 ammo is pricey, but I make my own, so I don't really know for sure.

CC

 

[heck ya beaches]

I have an EAA Witness in 10mm ... shoots quite nicely and would give you 15+1 if you have full cap mags. But I don't carry it when I am concerned about bears ... then I carry a 1911 with a 460 Rowland conversion on it. Essentially lets you deliver 4 controlled pairs of 44mag per reload. I imagine that the 460 ammo is pricey, but I make my own, so I don't really know for sure.

CC

I've always wondered who the heck is shooting .460. Now I know. Please tell me more about this 1911 and post pictures if you're comfortable doing so.

 

[headednorth]

the "newly" (is this a real word) increased disregard for any other people's rights, safety, comfort, Sry, put your own word / words in there,

lack of respect for others

 

[MaroonedinMA]

Those poor bears. Stop teasing them- that's cruel.

Nothing more than the good lord gave me.

 

[Darksideblues42]

This. Your probably more likely to get struck by lightning than have a bear attack you in New Hampshire/New England. If you are really concerned about a bear attack you are probably better off carrying bear spray. Carry a gun for defense against two-legged vermin. I've spent a lot of time bear hunting, walking into bait sites, baited sites, etc. and I've never been really concerned, but I will say I've definitely had the hair on my neck stand up when one has popped out on a narrow trail in front or behind me. Retrieving first time bear hunters off stands after dark is always fun, they stay in their tree stand because they were too nervous to come down out of the stand and walk out to where meeting point is.

.

A number of years ago, a family friend and I were walking our dogs around a back country camp near Naples Maine.

We were up a snowmobile trail around some swampy marshy spring fed quagmire.

He stepped off the trail to answer the call of nature (drop off the coffee as he put it)

Walked up to a split in a tree and started letting the flow go.

Then he noticed his dog was all shades of pissed off.

And that was when he noticed a funky swampy smell..and looked up.

He was pissing on a bull moose standing on the other side of the swamp maple cluster he was standing at.

The moose was not amused, but the tight cluster of trees stopped it from stomping a mudhole in his ass.

 

[Mark from MA]

Not bad. I was eye balling the Dan Wesson Kodiak and Bruin. Tactical styling doesn't really do it for me.

I like the Razorback myself.

 

[Mountain]

Retrieving first time bear hunters off stands after dark is always fun, they stay in their tree stand because they were too nervous to come down out of the stand and walk out to where meeting point is.

.

LOL city people trained via YouTube? Jeezus...

Bears show up here from time to time but unless you are a bird feeder you are generally safe and can 'shoo' them away like a bigger and slower squirrel. No, you don't turn your back on one, but not much to worry about. One did get pissy with my neighbor but he was taking video with his phone and based on the video I think the bear thought it was a standoff.

There have been some attacks out west where I backpack, but generally it happens with the combination of a near-starving bear and some dumbass sleeping with food in the tent and/or food all over his/her clothes. One of the funniest "Oh shit!" looks I have ever seen on an animal was on a bear I surprised when I jogged back to a campsite to retrieve something somebody dropped as we were leaving camp.

Agreed that lightning strikes are probably more likely but nothing you can do about that. Feral dogs, pissed off moose, bear, 2-legged predators- all of these collectively present some risk that is deserving of a solid sidearm. I do keep oversize cans of spray at the house and in the truck. LOL basically small fire extinguisher size and bought a supply when I had to travel in or through some of the shit-hole cities with Antifa/BLM riots. Source for the spray is in the northwest and it's made for brown bears.

 

[Mountain]

A number of years ago, a family friend and I were walking our dogs around a back country camp near Naples Maine.

We were up a snowmobile trail around some swampy marshy spring fed quagmire.

He stepped off the trail to answer the call of nature (drop off the coffee as he put it)

Walked up to a split in a tree and started letting the flow go.

Then he noticed his dog was all shades of pissed off.

And that was when he noticed a funky swampy smell..and looked up.

He was pissing on a bull moose standing on the other side of the swamp maple cluster he was standing at.

The moose was not amused, but the tight cluster of trees stopped it from stomping a mudhole in his ass.

LOL, drop off the coffee? Sounds more like drop off the beer.

 

[DarthRevan]

Much like happiness, beer is temporary.

No love for TRP yet?

 

[Mark from MA]

Retrieving first time bear hunters off stands after dark is always fun, they stay in their tree stand because they were too nervous to come down out of the stand and walk out to where meeting point is.

.

I guess in Canada where its illegal to carry a handgun I can understand this. But carry bear spray.

But if it's in ME/NH/VT.......bowhunters/muzzleloader guys should be carrying a larger caliber handgun with night sights and/or spray and shouldnt be afraid of anything.

 

[Darksideblues42]

LOL, drop off the coffee? Sounds more like drop off the beer.

Alas, it was coffee, this gentleman didn't drink anything stronger.