Why NOT to Ask LEOs/FFLs About MA Gun Laws

[vellnueve]

Not too long ago, I was in a Boston area gun store (not in the city of Boston, mind you), and the salesman told me that he could not sell any kind of AR-15 clone because of the AWB, no matter how it was configured. I said "Yeah well, what about every other gun store in MA that is selling them?" and he just shrugged and said "I can't figure out how they get away with it!"

Which store was that? Both Waltham stores and Roach's, along with Collectors and FS, all have ARs.

 

[vellnueve]

Or mags that are obviously not pre-ban for that matter. For example, Magpul PMAG or the newer designed Sig Sauer magazines. But honestly, all of my magazines are legitimately pre-ban because the price difference between the two is very minimal now that the rest of the states are selling their magazines to us after the sunset of the AWB. I mean, I got amazing, brand new Colt 30-round pre-ban mags with green followers from gunbroker for $40, which is only about $15 more than you would probably pay new. Is it worth the worry for $15?!

You got robbed. I paid $12.50 apiece for my USGI pre-bans, and $15 is the going rate.

 

[Reptile]

Things that you say are false...

Add Glock:

- Can't (actually "won't") replace a broken frame for anyone in MA (unless active LEO) unless replacement frame was made pre-10/21/1998.

Ok, so how can you get Glock to replace your frame? Will they give you a brand new one, or a frame that is older?


Or, were you saying that they can't replace it?

 

[jeepnwayne]

I had finaly found a 30 rd. mag for my mini and the Ma dealer said I could not buy it because I had a class B. I asured him I could buy it but he said, "I've been doing this (running the shop) a long time and should know the laws." He looked to be at least 70. For example he told me he could'nt even sell me a .22 rifle that held more than 10 rds. His loss I guess

 

[securityboy]

Ok so I thought of a few NFA related I've heard, some more often than others...

1. I'd get a machinegun but I don't want ATF to beable to come into my house anytime they want.
2. I'd get a machinegun but I don't want to pay those taxes on them every year.
3. I don't know why you pay so much $$$ for those, "my buddy's friend" can get them direct from the manufacture for at dealer cost
4. I can put a K-grip and folder on my HKSP89 pistol, because its "preban" so I don't need special papers for it.
5. probably the most common one.... You can't own machineguns they are illegal ...

 

[GSG]

Things that you say are false...




Ok, so how can you get Glock to replace your frame? Will they give you a brand new one, or a frame that is older?


Or, were you saying that they can't replace it?

Glock is playing it safe and saying that legally they can't, when in fact they legally can. Much like the Ruger 10/22 BS, it's businesses afraid to cross our evil AG here in Mass.

 

[jobowker]

A guy that works at a gunshop once told me it was illegal to carry an unloaded handgun.

Actually, there is a trace of truth in this one. I'm not saying it's true, but one of the MGL's spells out that is ok to have a loaded firearm under your direct control, (assuming the right LTC). They make no mention of having an unloaded firearm under your direct control. So since they only mention "unloaded & locked" or "loaded", one could infer that no where does it mention that you can carry an unloaded firearm unlocked and in your direct control.

Maybe that was what they based it on? I'm probably butchering the wording, but you get the idea.

 

[stoneypete]

heres a gem: you can only buy 4 guns per year.

In in lots of trouble then.

 

[GLOCK.Perfection]

In in lots of trouble then.

hahaha. that was my reply too!

 

[cekim]

Maybe that was what they based it on? I'm probably butchering the wording, but you get the idea.

Likely a combo of that and the amount of legislation written from the bench...

People living in MA have adopted an attitude of illegal unless otherwise permitted as a result of the absurdity of our courts...

Really, really sad[sad2]

 

[Sleepytime]

My friend and I was told this one after my friend asked if it was legal to keep a gun in your car while you are at work:

"No, it's totaly illegal. Even if it was legal it would be stupid to do that."

 

[Ripach]

A new Gem:

I was told the other day that modifying a Saiga rifle to pistol grip configuration, even with correct U.S. parts count and no other evil features was illegal, wait for it.......





Because you need a 07 manufactures license to do so. I then asked isn't just simple home gunsmithing, and was told even if it was I'd need a gunsmith license.

This hobby is about to get real expensive if that is the case.

 

[Coyote33]

I will repeat what I said in a couple other threads: There is a GREAT opportunity here for GOAL to provide training for law enforcement. As part of this training, they will introduce the new laws proposed under massgunlawreform.com and also see if they will endorse the new reforms.

 

[jhblaze1]

That is one of my favorite "tin foil hat" concerns I see on this board...I AM NOT ADVOCATING BREAKING THE LAW, BUT...unless you get grabbed for something else (even then I doubt it), no one is sending unmarked mags to the super secret state mag. dating lab, to determine thier age...Of coarse don't be stupid and buy high cap mags for guns that didn't exist befor 1994...

edit: befor the "tin foil hats" come out let me clarify what I mean...you go to a gun show you see unmarked AK mags...don't loose sleep over them, just buy them...there are probably billions of AK mags in the world and no one paid any attention to when they were made...the cop you happen into, and anyone else, will not know that the clover in a triangle is a lebanese date stamp meaning made in 2009 or is it clover in trapazoid...

further edit: I made up the whole clover in triangle/trapazoid thing to illustrate my point, I have no idea if those stamps exist, or if they do what they mean...

maybe a cop grabbing you on the street wouldn't know, but I bet if you shot a home invader and the cops took you gun as evidence, it would come out that it have an "illegal feeding device" in it.

Considering we carry our guns for the purpose of protection and potentially may have to use them some day, i couldn't see taking such a dumb risk just to save a few bucks.

I could see people having them as range mags or something though....

 

[Plural of Mongoose]

I was in UPS a while back and the owner told me that the local police had told him that shipping ANY firearm related items was illegal in Ma.
He said they inferred that ammo, scopes and even those scary parts like sling swivels and stocks were included in the ban on shipping.
I said that he ought to bone up on the laws that concern his business and get advice from people who know what heck they are talking about.

 

[vellnueve]

I had finaly found a 30 rd. mag for my mini and the Ma dealer said I could not buy it because I had a class B. I asured him I could buy it but he said, "I've been doing this (running the shop) a long time and should know the laws." He looked to be at least 70. For example he told me he could'nt even sell me a .22 rifle that held more than 10 rds. His loss I guess

That's because most people see "LTC-B" and think low-cap handgun, not high cap rifle.

I was in UPS a while back and the owner told me that the local police had told him that shipping ANY firearm related items was illegal in Ma.
He said they inferred that ammo, scopes and even those scary parts like sling swivels and stocks were included in the ban on shipping.
I said that he ought to bone up on the laws that concern his business and get advice from people who know what heck they are talking about.

Idiot...

 

[one-eyed Jack]

From a cop: "$200 fine for having a "silencer". From an entry level ATF inspector: "With the 07 FFL you can only sell what you make". Jack.

 

[securityboy]

maybe a cop grabbing you on the street wouldn't know, but I bet if you shot a home invader and the cops took you gun as evidence, it would come out that it have an "illegal feeding device" in it.

#1. you watch to much CSI

... i couldn't see taking such a dumb risk just to save a few bucks.
I could see people having them as range mags or something though....

#2. you are missing what I am saying. I AM NOT suggesting you go out an intentionally buy post ban mags. Just don't worry about it if you buy an unmarked mag.

 

[seanc]

From a cop: "$200 fine for having a "silencer". From an entry level ATF inspector: "With the 07 FFL you can only sell what you make". Jack.

$200 fine???
Wow, Sign me up I'll pay the fine!!!!
that is a hell of a lot easier than dealing with the cleo sign off and all those silly forms!!!

 

[matt1956]

Regarding post-ban hi-cap mags, I've spoken to several MA police officers who've stated that they wouldn't even be able to tell if one was pre, or post ban, and if the person in question had a valid LTC, they honestly wouldn't care either way.

Sadly, i bet you would get 2 x's as many LEOs that feel just the opposite...

 

[jaymce]

A new Gem:

I was told the other day that modifying a Saiga rifle to pistol grip configuration, even with correct U.S. parts count and no other evil features was illegal, wait for it.......





Because you need a 07 manufactures license to do so. I then asked isn't just simple home gunsmithing, and was told even if it was I'd need a gunsmith license.

This hobby is about to get real expensive if that is the case.

It is my understanding that this mod to a Saiga (7.62,.223,.308) it would be ok provided you get your 922 compliance count down. Rifle = 2 evil features 1 being the Mag. Same as AR

In Ma. on Saiga 12, 20, or 410 you will be in trouble. Shotgun 1 evil feature = Mag 5 round or less a PG would give you 2 even if US made and with in 922 compliance.

 

[one-eyed Jack]

$200 fine???
Wow, Sign me up I'll pay the fine!!!!
that is a hell of a lot easier than dealing with the cleo sign off and all those silly forms!!!

Probably confusing the fine with the transfer tax. Cheaper in Vermont. Suppressors are a no-no there, but the fine if you get caught is only $25. Just hope that the Feds don't find out! Jack.

 

[amb]

Regarding post-ban hi-cap mags, I've spoken to several MA police officers who've stated that they wouldn't even be able to tell if one was pre, or post ban, and if the person in question had a valid LTC, they honestly wouldn't care either way.

At least that one's not an error, it's an individual judgement call. And, in my book, the right one, and it's nice to have somebody know their limitations and spend time on what's important. (I think for the average LEO learning pre-ban vs. post-ban markings sounds like a complete waste of time.)

I have found cops to be a great source of pre-ban high-cap mags for common duty guns; there's one in particular I know (one of the ones who does know pre-ban vs. post-ban) who can go on at length about how dumb that particular bit of law is, even while he goes to great lengths to obey it to the letter. (There's a longer debate there about how to deal with stupid laws and how they erode respect for the rule of law by both the police and general public, though this isn't really the place for it.)

 

[dwarven1]

- You MUST have an FID card to buy ammo. A LTC isn't sufficient!

The stupid bimbo of an assistant manager at the Hudson WalMart hit me with that one one night and just WOULD NOT listen to reason. She kept telling me that she HAD to follow the prompts on her cash register to the letter... and the morons who program their cash registers tell them to "Check FID card".

I had a very long talk with her manager (who DOES know the law - shame she was on vacation the week I was trying to buy ammo) about how her assistant was driving away business.

I had finaly found a 30 rd. mag for my mini and the Ma dealer said I could not buy it because I had a class B. I asured him I could buy it but he said, "I've been doing this (running the shop) a long time and should know the laws." He looked to be at least 70. For example he told me he could'nt even sell me a .22 rifle that held more than 10 rds. His loss I guess

Yeah, he should know the laws, but he doesn't. And I'd have said that to his face, too.

 

[drgrant]

The stupid bimbo of an assistant manager at the Hudson WalMart hit me with that one one night and just WOULD NOT listen to reason. She kept telling me that she HAD to follow the prompts on her cash register to the letter... and the morons who program their cash registers tell them to "Check FID card".

I had one of those at the Lunenburg wal mart years ago. The guy working the SG counter didn't know what the heck was going on.

I got lucky- I explained to him that an LTC was better than an FID, and he somehow understood that.

The best part though, was every time the cash register showed the prompt, he kept looking at my license, as though it had changed in the 10 seconds since he rang in the last item. I think after the fifth box of ammo he got sick of staring at my license and just kept ringing them in.

-Mike

 

[seanc]

Probably confusing the fine with the transfer tax. Cheaper in Vermont. Suppressors are a no-no there, but the fine if you get caught is only $25. Just hope that the Feds don't find out! Jack.

huh??
Wouldn't a person be prosecuted with illegal possession of an nfa item (assuming the silencer not allowed in VT (or non class 2 in mass) is not registered)?

 

[dwarven1]

I got lucky- I explained to him that an LTC was better than an FID, and he somehow understood that.

I tried to explain that to this stupid **** but she just would. NOT. LISTEN.

 

[drgrant]

huh??
Wouldn't a person be prosecuted with illegal possession of an nfa item (assuming the silencer not allowed in VT (or non class 2 in mass) is not registered)?

You're jumbling some terms and jurisdictions together. How you could be
punished varies widely depending on circumstances involved.

-Mike

 

[tuna]

"your knife blade cannot be longer than the width of your hand"
"open carry is illegal" (not to be confused with asking for trouble, but illegal)


"you can be charged with brandishing" (not sure, but I've heard it from too many bs sources for it to true, and I've been unable to find it in the MGLs)

 

[Ripach]

Originally Posted by Ripach
A new Gem:
I was told the other day that modifying a Saiga rifle to pistol grip configuration, even with correct U.S. parts count and no other evil features was illegal, wait for it.......
Because you need a 07 manufactures license to do so. I then asked isn't just simple home gunsmithing, and was told even if it was I'd need a gunsmith license.
This hobby is about to get real expensive if that is the case.

In Ma. on Saiga 12, 20, or 410 you will be in trouble. Shotgun 1 evil feature = Mag 5 round or less a PG would give you 2 even if US made and with in 922 compliance.

Hence the use of the word rifle in my original post. And you were also correct in that the only legal pitfall (providing you stay clear of AWB issues) in the conversion is 922r (U. S. parts count)