ATF new report shows FFLs are not the problem

[MaverickNH]

You racist pig thinking that.

Of course, the Black Firearms Traffickers were victims of a legacy of slavery, caught up in the justice system’s structural white supremacy, blah-blah-blah…

 

[EJFudd]

This may (or may not) help in clarifying your situation with regard to someday wanting to sell off your collection (quoted from the bottom of page 5 of this document: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regul...ion-engaged-business-dealer-firearms/download):

"At the same time, the final rule expressly recognizes that individuals who purchase firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or a legitimate hobby are permitted by the GCA to occasionally buy and sell firearms for those purposes, or occasionally resell to a licensee or to a family member for lawful purposes, without the need to obtain a license. It also makes clear that persons may liquidate all or part of a personal collection, liquidate firearms that are inherited, or liquidate pursuant to a court order, without the need to obtain a license. Evidence of these activities may also be used to rebut the presumptions discussed above in a civil or administrative proceeding. Relatedly, the rule finalizes the proposed definition of the term “personal collection” (or “personal collection of firearms” or “personal firearms collection”) to reflect common definitions of the terms “collection” and “hobby.” While firearms accumulated primarily for personal protection are not included in the definition of “personal collection,” the final rule makes clear that nothing in this rule shall be construed as precluding a person from lawfully acquiring a firearm for self-protection or other lawful personal use."


Frank

Rest assured that I have read every word of your referenced ATF document at least twice. I am not impressed. ATF promises mean nothing to me.

But see if you can guess the one word that keeps popping up (in reference to "collectors" and "collections") that keeps bothering me... a lot.

Go ahead... See if you can guess it.

 

[pinefd]

Rest assured that I have read every word of your referenced ATF document at least twice. I am not impressed. ATF promises mean nothing to me.

But see if you can guess the one word that keeps popping up in (reference to "collectors" and "collections") that keeps bothering me... a lot.

Go ahead... See if you can guess it.

I'm thinking it's either the word "may" or "common" (just like "common sense gun laws" LOL!!)


Frank

 

[EJFudd]

I'm thinking it's either the word "may" or "common" (just like "common sense gun laws" LOL!!)


Frank

LOL! Good guesses, but no... not those.

 

[MGnoob]

You always could. What you cannot get is a MA Dealer's license. Without the dealer's license you are not exempt from the AWB and you are limited to neutered magazines. So getting an 01 to sell out of state without a MA Dealer's license is of questionable use. Who wants 10rd mags in the G17? Who wants their 16" barreled AR with a pinned and welded brake? No one in a free state...

07s out of your house exist. There is one in my town. There is one well known member on this forum with one. Doable.

I guess I'm doing a little "wishful thinking" here based on our Massachusetts overlords maybe wanting to support the Feds in their quest to close that nasty "gunshow loophole" right here in MA. It doesn't work if all that our MA "gunshow loopholers" can get is a Federal FFL.

So will MA cooperate and drop the requirement for a commercial and/or industrial-zoned shop? Wouldn't that be nice! Back to the days of kitchen table FFLs. I miss those days.

Are you guys saying I could get my FFL? And operate as an FFL without my MA dealers license? As long as I don’t have anything that violates the assault weapons ban? I’d have to look into that.

Never mind, the answers no

 

[EJFudd]

Are you guys saying I could get my FFL? And operate as an FFL without my MA dealers license? As long as I don’t have anything that violates the assault weapons ban? I’d have to look into that.

That is Crackpot's comment (not mine). I have no reason to doubt him.

 

[MGnoob]

That is Crackpot's comment (not mine). I have no reason to doubt him.

I thought I was going to have to read a whole bunch of shit right when you first click on it the answers there
Massachusetts sucks. But this is ridiculous people running all kinds of businesses out of their home. it’s also the reason I don’t have my FFL if the mill was closer I would’ve done that.

 

[Asaltweapon]

I thought I was going to have to read a whole bunch of shit right when you first click on it the answers there
Massachusetts sucks. But this is ridiculous people running all kinds of businesses out of their home. it’s also the reason I don’t have my FFL if the mill was closer I would’ve done that.

I’m not so sure I want to voluntarily submit my future ass reaming to the ATF.
I see a few small scale gun shops and smiths around these parts and thought it might be fun.
My filled out FFL paperwork is still in the file cabinet from when the class was held at The Mill some time back.

 

[Kevin_NH]

I thought I was going to have to read a whole bunch of shit right when you first click on it the answers there
Massachusetts sucks. But this is ridiculous people running all kinds of businesses out of their home. it’s also the reason I don’t have my FFL if the mill was closer I would’ve done that.

I looked into the possibility of setting up something like "The Mill" in NH (also in a mill building, coincidentally) and discovered there was no need and no demand -- everybody just goes the "home occupation" route up here.

 

[CrackPot]

Are you guys saying I could get my FFL? And operate as an FFL without my MA dealers license? As long as I don’t have anything that violates the assault weapons ban? I’d have to look into that.

Never mind, the answers no

It definitely has been done. The state is not involved. It is the ATF and your local zoning enforcement. You need to get someone at your local zoning to agree that it is a lawful home occupation. Do that and the ATF will issue. So it will depend on your town, your persuasiveness, your lawyer's persuasiveness, etc.

I know multiple people with home FFLs and no MA dealers license.

You will NEVER get a dealers license out of your home.

 

[drgrant]

I wouldn't want the liability of an FFL. I had a shop sell me two lowers without recording or inaccurately recording the serial numbers pretty recently.

On what end? the FA10 form that basically almost doesnt matter (actually the shop shouldn't be FA10ing a lower at all!!!!!!) or their actual BB and the 4473 you filled out?

 

[71montess]

My brother in law has commercial space close to me, if I only need a cubicle size space , does it need to be completely segregated from his buisness with a doorway or can I just put up those office cubicle walls in a corner of his building and put a file cabinet and maybe a safe and call it an FFL ? With the right state and federal paperwork of course.

 

[cathouse01]

It definitely has been done. The state is not involved. It is the ATF and your local zoning enforcement. You need to get someone at your local zoning to agree that it is a lawful home occupation. Do that and the ATF will issue. So it will depend on your town, your persuasiveness, your lawyer's persuasiveness, etc.

I know multiple people with home FFLs and no MA dealers license.

You will NEVER get a dealers license out of your home.

Bear Arms in Athol just got kicked out of their space because it was in a multi use building, with commercial space on the first floor and residential apartments on the upper floors. I understand that they were told that an FFL isn’t allowed in any building that has any residential space (not clear if this was the state or the town).

 

[MGnoob]

It definitely has been done. The state is not involved. It is the ATF and your local zoning enforcement. You need to get someone at your local zoning to agree that it is a lawful home occupation. Do that and the ATF will issue. So it will depend on your town, your persuasiveness, your lawyer's persuasiveness, etc.

I know multiple people with home FFLs and no MA dealers license.

You will NEVER get a dealers license out of your home.

My town definitely won’t after all this shit with my mountain project or my neighbors complain about f***ing everything. They enforce things against me and then other people are in blatant violation and they won’t do anything about it. It’s all bullshit.

 

[CrackPot]

Bear Arms in Athol just got kicked out of their space because it was in a multi use building, with commercial space on the first floor and residential apartments on the upper floors. I understand that they were told that an FFL isn’t allowed in any building that has any residential space (not clear if this was the state or the town).

Can’t have dealers license in mixed use. That is for certain.

 

[SkilledSovereignty]

On what end? the FA10 form that basically almost doesnt matter (actually the shop shouldn't be FA10ing a lower at all!!!!!!) or their actual BB and the 4473 you filled out?

Not 100% sure. I filled out my portion of the 4473 and they contacted me for the serial on one lower on the way home. Then contacted me the next day and said they fat fingered the serial number on the other one.

 

[CrackPot]

Not 100% sure. I filled out my portion of the 4473 and they contacted me for the serial on one lower on the way home. Then contacted me the next day and said they fat fingered the serial number on the other one.

Being a FFL is all about paperwork. You have to do it correctly every day. If you fail to do it correctly the Biden's ATF will pull your license.

While the shop may have made a mistake the day of the sale, it sounds like they have checks and balances in place to validate the work they did and they found their mistake. This may actually be a good sign.

We all make mistakes. The question is what processes do we put in place to catch the mistakes when we make them.

 

[SkilledSovereignty]

Being a FFL is all about paperwork. You have to do it correctly every day. If you fail to do it correctly the Biden's ATF will pull your license.

While the shop may have made a mistake the day of the sale, it sounds like they have checks and balances in place to validate the work they did and they found their mistake. This may actually be a good sign.

We all make mistakes. The question is what processes do we put in place to catch the mistakes when we make them.

I sent them the info as soon as I had access. When I arrived home from the shop and arrived home from work the next day. Im not here trying to make it harder on ffls in a state where its already difficult. I just wouldnt want the liability of a typo ruining my business or worse.