Who will "kill" Glock?

[ColdDayInHell]

i have limited experience with glocks, have shot a few,, didnt like the triggers. i havent read all the posts but id choose my ruger sr9c before any glock 9mm. but thats just me.

I love both the SR9c and all my Glocks. The SR has been flawless through 2000 rounds. After the quick trigger job a Glock is perfect. To each his own. Hate these fanbois that hate anything. I hate M&P but if I shot one and it was good, I'd like it. Even that Apex trigger still was mushy. Sucks, they're cheap as ****.

 

[Radtekk]

TLDR... I have a Springfield xD45, the "original" before the "M" line. I walked in to a gun store in AZ (when I lived there) and tried 15-20 different guns to see which fit my hand the best. The xD fit my hand like the mask in the Jim Carrey movie. Picked it up, I was done shopping The day I leave this G-dforsaken state I'm going to buy another, maybe two. I have a Para 1911 that I carry daily, and an S&W Chief's Special in 45 that I carry when the Para or xD are too big. If the xD was a singe-stack like the Para I'd probably carry it daily. FWIW I don't hate or even dislike Glocks, Lady Radtekk has a Gen 4 26 which I've shot, and carried a couple of times, although I DO prefer to always have 45.

So I think that if Springield had something that had pre-ban mags they'd be in the running, but alas...

ETA: Regarding reliability etc... I have several thousand (3-4, I don't keep track) rounds down range with my xD. Used to be 200/week when it was cheap in AZ 7 years ago. To date, using every kind of factory ammo, including factory lead reloads (Bullseye) I have EXACTLY zero failures. No fail to fire, eject, feed... Not a single one. I have done nothing to the gun except clean it and buy neutered 10 round mags to replace the standard 13's...

 

[wacky_doug]

What? No mention of Caracal?! [rotfl]

We really need the gangbangers/rappers to pick the next winner for us.

I like carrying and shooting Glocks, but when I get to a free state, I'll be looking around.

 

[M1911]

I'm not sure why everyone is on this HK VP-9 band wagon, everyone is acting like its this amazing new pistol that will replace/ "kiLL" the Glock??, i'm sure the same was said when S&W came out with the MP line.

HK is still riding on the reputation it got from the pictures of the SAS assaulting the Iranian embassy in London carrying MP5s.

"I have HK pistol. I are operator now!"

 

[wacky_doug]

HK is still riding on the reputation it got from the pictures of the SAS assaulting the Iranian embassy in London carrying MP5s. "I have HK pistol. I are operator now!"

I'm definitely an operator (LSHD class). And old school too: My two favorite HKs are the MP5 and the P7 series.

 

[not new guy]

HK is still riding on the reputation it got from the pictures of the SAS assaulting the Iranian embassy in London carrying MP5s.

"I have HK pistol. I are operator now!"

They also just work. You get Glock reliability, at least the same accuracy/performance, nearly flawless fit and finish, good resale value, and a lineup of pistols that offers more styles and configurations than a company like Glock offers. There are downsides to be sure (gun/mag/part prices, etc.), but HK puts out a nice product. They aren't entirely coasting on old ad campaigns of dudes with MP5s storming buildings, or mercenaries crawling out of swamps with G3s.

 

[Cloverleaf Firearms Group]

I like the 'Honda' analogy for Glock that someone posted. That's how I look at them and treat the ones I've owned.

 

[TBalls]

I haven't shot the M&P. It does seem competitive with Glock, but I don't see what it has that Glock doesn't.

That is basically the question I ask every time this conversation comes up.

I don't think it's a matter of having something that Glock doesn't, but rather a "different strokes for different folks" kind of situation. Personally, I carried a G19 for a couple of years and was absolutely convinced that I was in love. When I finally shot the M&P, I found (much to my surprise) that it just fits my hand better. Putting a Glock in my hand still just feels good, but the M&P feels much better when I shoot it. I have nothing but respect for Glocks (simplicity, reliability, etc.) and I'm sure there will be more in my future.

I am quite curious about the VP9. The P30 has great ergos and shoots nicely, I just can't get past the traditional DA (and price tag). The VP fixes the trigger issue and at least in theory is much more competitively priced.

 

[KTech2316]

They also just work. You get Glock reliability, at least the same accuracy/performance, nearly flawless fit and finish, good resale value, and a lineup of pistols that offers more styles and configurations than a company like Glock offers. There are downsides to be sure (gun/mag/part prices, etc.), but HK puts out a nice product. They aren't entirely coasting on old ad campaigns of dudes with MP5s storming buildings, or mercenaries crawling out of swamps with G3s.

Well said!

Ferraris and Corvettes do the same thing...Id still choose the Ferrari! To me...The glock is the economy sports car and theres nothing wrong with that.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

My P22 comes to mind as easily the biggest PITA to put back together.

- - - Updated - - -



Bought a 1911A. took a few tries (and scratches) but not too bad.

Lol yup. **** p22's lol

 

[Smokewagon]

An affordable line of PDW style compact rifles that doesn't suck and doesn't cost H&K money maybe.

In. If they can make a compact rifle that is as reliable and has simple internals like their pistols they'd sell me a few.

 

[AllaSnackbah]

I heard a rumor from inside sources that the Remington R512.0 will kill teh glerk

 

[M1911]

They also just work. You get Glock reliability, at least the same accuracy/performance, nearly flawless fit and finish, good resale value, and a lineup of pistols that offers more styles and configurations than a company like Glock offers.

Along with a slide the size of 2x4, an awkward mag release, a DA trigger that requires two men and a come-along, and a high bore axis that leads to a lots of muzzle flip.

I do agree that my USPcs have been accurate and reliable. The slide stop is generously sized and properly located. But from a concealed carry standpoint, they just don't match the packaging of a Glock 19/23.

 

[M1911]

I guess my comment was based somewhat on ignorance! My go to ccw is a .38 j w/+p's

I have owned many revolvers, but only a few centerfire semis- P22, 92F, 1911A, and markarov

I don't know of any modern defensive semi-auto that is as "hard" to field strip as a 1911 (which isn't hard). In other words, if you can field strip a 1911, then you'll think that any modern semi-auto is a piece of cake to field strip.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm definitely an operator (LSHD class).

Hey, I'm in that class too!

 

[Synyster]

I shot a glock once before maybe five years ago. I believe it was a 19 or 17. Hated everything about it. Shot a 26 last night and loved it. If only I could find one at a reasonable price to replace my USPc 9mm.

 

[Chet0729]

I have not run into any hand gun that I would call hard to field strip. probably the most challenging is the Ruger MK series. The Glocks come apart pretty easy as do the 1911's. Do people really have trouble taking these down.

 

[dovecoon]

I have not run into any hand gun that I would call hard to field strip. probably the most challenging is the Ruger MK series. The Glocks come apart pretty easy as do the 1911's. Do people really have trouble taking these down.

That's one of the reasons I settled on an M&P. For a novice like me, the takedown lever and the fact that it doesn't need any (extra) tools makes for a fun time.

I really think the M&P line will take quite bit of Glock's share. They seem to incorporate some of the best features (I love that chambered round indicator, and a polymer frame makes it cheaper and lighter) while removing the worst (Grip angle, and the fact that you need to dry fire to strip it come to mind.)

 

[M1911]

That's one of the reasons I settled on an M&P. For a novice like me, the takedown lever and the fact that it doesn't need any (extra) tools makes for a fun time.

I really think the M&P line will take quite bit of Glock's share. They seem to incorporate some of the best features (I love that chambered round indicator, and a polymer frame makes it cheaper and lighter) while removing the worst (Grip angle, and the fact that you need to dry fire to strip it come to mind.)

I just don't understand some of that reasoning. What is the big deal about field-stripping a gun? You do that a half-dozen times a year. That is so far down the list compared to important issues like how the gun shoots, how it feels in your hand, how easy it is to carry and conceal. Why is it of any concern at all? I don't get it.

Chambered round indicator? People actually use those? Wow.

 

[dovecoon]

I just don't understand some of that reasoning. What is the big deal about field-stripping a gun? You do that a half-dozen times a year. That is so far down the list compared to important issues like how the gun shoots, how it feels in your hand, how easy it is to carry and conceal. Why is it of any concern at all? I don't get it.

Chambered round indicator? People actually use those? Wow.

Being a novice, having the extra ease is nice. I like being extra careful and I like just field stripping for the fun of it. Cleaning is a bit easier if I field strip and I like to clean it often.

And the argument of only doing it half a dozen times a year doesn't really make sense to me. That's like saying "Why does it matter how easy it is to draw your gun? You only draw in self defense, like, less than once a year!" Just because you don't do it often doesn't mean it shouldn't be easy.

And for the chambered round indicator, again, I'm just starting out. Sometimes I take my brother to the range who has no license or experience with guns. It's especially nice if I lose count of how many rounds he's fired, I can tell at a glance if there's one left. If I lose count of how many rounds I've fired, I can just angle the gun slightly instead of completely removing one hand to pull the slide back and need to reset my grip. It's easier to just look at the hole than for him to pull it back and accidentally half-feed a round or stove pipe or one of a dozen other things. Or if I'm loading to carry it, I can just check the indicator instead of pulling the slide back, which I often pull back too far and accidentally eject the round, which causes me to have to unload it, pop the round back in the mag and load it again, and if I'm in a hurry out the house, that helps a bit.

So, tl;dr: You're incredibly narrow minded in thinking "I don't use this feature which means no one will use it." These features are all incredibly useful to a novice especially.

 

[drgrant]

Being a novice, having the extra ease is nice. I like being extra careful and I like just field stripping for the fun of it. Cleaning is a bit easier if I field strip and I like to clean it often.

You'll learn. It might take you 4 or 5 years, but eventually your perspectives on cleaning will change, unless you're one of those guys that shoots 2 boxes every couple of months. I used to be like that. Fastidiously cleaning after every range trip. Then it dawned on me- "What a ****ing waste of time." Now I only get picky about carry/defense guns being clean, the rest of them I just shoot until they stop working, or when I get a thing in my brain saying "maybe I should clean this soon, because it feels like its gonna stop working.". Or I'll clean them up if I'm about to sell one of them. (which thankfully, rarely happens anymore).

And for the chambered round indicator, again, I'm just starting out. Sometimes I take my brother to the range who has no license or experience with guns. It's especially nice if I lose count of how many rounds he's fired, I can tell at a glance if there's one left.

It's still a bad idea because you're using a crutch that doesn't exist on all handguns. If it's really a concern develop the correct habit (a press check) instead of relying on this hack that's been cast upon us by bureaucrats and lawyers. I have guns with and without LCIs and I don't usually trust them- particularly not when it comes to matters of direct safety. The worst thing that will happen is you'll be safe on all platforms, not just the ones with the gay "safety" features.

If I lose count of how many rounds I've fired, I can just angle the gun slightly instead of completely removing one hand to pull the slide back and need to reset my grip. It's easier to just look at the hole than for him to pull it back and accidentally half-feed a round or stove pipe or one of a dozen other things. Or if I'm loading to carry it, I can just check the indicator instead of pulling the slide back, which I often pull back too far and accidentally eject the round, which causes me to have to unload it, pop the round back in the mag and load it again, and if I'm in a hurry out the house, that helps a bit.

Mind = numb.

So, tl;dr: You're incredibly narrow minded in thinking "I don't use this feature which means no one will use it." These features are all incredibly useful to a novice especially.

No, they just make it so novices can be lazy. The rest of us were all novices at one point and we had guns that were shitty to take apart, never had LCIs, etc... and none of us died or got hurt while learning how to do things the right way, which wasn't dramatically harder. I've only ever had a few guns (out of like 30) that were really a bitch to take
apart, etc. Most stuff is dirt simple...

-Mike

 

[bill o]

I would never use a loaded chamber indicator. A false positive will get you killed in the street, and a false negative can lead to an AD. LCIs are just awful.

 

[jibbr71]

It's still a bad idea because you're using a crutch that doesn't exist on all handguns. If it's really a concern develop the correct habit (a press check) instead of relying on this hack that's been cast upon us by bureaucrats and lawyers. I have guns with and without LCIs and I don't usually trust them- particularly not when it comes to matters of direct safety. The worst thing that will happen is you'll be safe on all platforms, not just the ones with the gay "safety" features.



Mind = numb.



No, they just make it so novices can be lazy. The rest of us were all novices at one point and we had guns that were shitty to take apart, never had LCIs, etc... and none of us died or got hurt while learning how to do things the right way, which wasn't dramatically harder. I've only ever had a few guns (out of like 30) that were really a bitch to take
apart, etc. Most stuff is dirt simple...

-Mike

All of my pistols have a Loaded chamber indicator. If there's a magazine in the gun, the chamber's loaded. In seriousness, I own several pistols with them, and never look at them.

 

[gearjunky13]

Think about the fact we still have revolver's, the pistol its self could not take out the revolver generation, I don't know how a couple of pistols that just came out could completely eradicate glock

 

[gearjunky13]

I agree with mike on the LCI, sure it seems so simple to just look at the indicated, but as soon as you start relying on it you may find one day making a mistak, if you were using brass cases all the time then one day used steal, when you look quickly at the LCI,

your going to exspect to see brass in the chamber, but the steel case is dark and you may think its empty when its not, and proper gun safety always says rack the slide to clear, you should always at the range have the slide open when not shooting it,

 

[jasons]

If there's a magazine in the gun, the chamber's loaded.

 

[jibbr71]

Phenomenal use of Bubbles.... What I mean is that if I have a mag in my pistol, I chamber a round. When they're resting quietly, there's no mag in them. It sounded better in my head....

 

[M1911]

Being a novice, having the extra ease is nice. I like being extra careful and I like just field stripping for the fun of it. Cleaning is a bit easier if I field strip and I like to clean it often.

As I said previously, a 1911 is perhaps the most "difficult" to field strip and I can field strip it in less than 10 seconds. So what, exactly, is the big deal? Is being able to field strip it in 1 second 10 times better?

And the argument of only doing it half a dozen times a year doesn't really make sense to me. That's like saying "Why does it matter how easy it is to draw your gun? You only draw in self defense, like, less than once a year!" Just because you don't do it often doesn't mean it shouldn't be easy.

Dude, really?

1) I practice drawing my gun a lot. I may draw my gun 100 times in a single range visit. Being able to quickly and safely draw my gun is not only vital in competition, but it might save my life.

2) Are you seriously comparing how easy it is to field strip a gun at your leisure with how quickly you can draw a gun while under immediate threat of death or grave bodily injury. Seriously?

And for the chambered round indicator, again, I'm just starting out. Sometimes I take my brother to the range who has no license or experience with guns. It's especially nice if I lose count of how many rounds he's fired, I can tell at a glance if there's one left. If I lose count of how many rounds I've fired, I can just angle the gun slightly instead of completely removing one hand to pull the slide back and need to reset my grip. It's easier to just look at the hole than for him to pull it back and accidentally half-feed a round or stove pipe or one of a dozen other things. Or if I'm loading to carry it, I can just check the indicator instead of pulling the slide back, which I often pull back too far and accidentally eject the round, which causes me to have to unload it, pop the round back in the mag and load it again, and if I'm in a hurry out the house, that helps a bit.

1) I chamber check all of my semi-auto guns the same way -- remove the magazine and verify that it is fully loaded, replace the mag and ensure that is fully inserted, slightly retract the slide to verify that there is a round in the chamber, push the slide fully closed. No way I'm going to depend upon some doohickey that might be broken.

2) As for "losing count of how many rounds I've fired", if I've fired the gun dry, the slide will usually lock back. If I need to know whether there is a round in the chamber, see the above paragraph.

So, tl;dr: You're incredibly narrow minded in thinking "I don't use this feature which means no one will use it." These features are all incredibly useful to a novice especially.

Narrow minded? No. I've just been doing this for a while and have an informed opinion about what is important and what isn't.

 

[Artifact]

That's one of the reasons I settled on an M&P. For a novice like me, the takedown lever and the fact that it doesn't need any (extra) tools makes for a fun time.

I really think the M&P line will take quite bit of Glock's share. They seem to incorporate some of the best features (I love that chambered round indicator, and a polymer frame makes it cheaper and lighter) while removing the worst (Grip angle, and the fact that you need to dry fire to strip it come to mind.)

M&P is for cops, Glock is for Operators.

 

[deezwho]

Im not trusting anything other than my own eyes when it comes to a round in the chamber. Mechanical devices can fail.

 

[dovecoon]

Narrow minded? No. I've just been doing this for a while and have an informed opinion about what is important and what isn't.

You just proved my point. You're experienced, so you have different desires and think different things are important. I'm not experienced, s every little feature that makes a gun slightly easier helps. When I get more experienced, I'll probably agree with you. But to me right now, those features are useful and important.

I'll us holsters as an example. Alien Gear is a very good holster for a novice partly due to their warranty and the fact that you can mail the shell back to them if you change your carry gun. This is useful for a novice who may decide that he doesn't like the idea of carrying this gun or that gun is a better fit against his skin. For a very experienced shooter who has carried the same gun for years, you'll probably want something molded specifically for your gun and body that's a bit higher quality and more ergonomic since it's not so modular. Different people need different things at different times.

Im not trusting anything other than my own eyes when it comes to a round in the chamber. Mechanical devices can fail.

It's not really a mechanical device, it's just a hole.