You beat me to it........HD has been "resting on its Laurls" for decades and decades.......and they sell a **** ton of motorcycles. Its about marketing.......and of course making a solid product.
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Who will "kill" Glock?
- Thread starter frenchman
- Start date
Sure I guess. But seeing how there is not much of a tangible basis for the discussion, it would be very difficult to come to any sort of definitive conclusion.
You claim theor "ergos" are better, that's a difficult thing to "prove" In a discussion
You claim that Glock is not "inovative", seeing as how some of the most copied firearms and firearms designs are over 100 years old, I don't see the relevance here to this point.
You claim that GB is the only GOV contract for Glock, I'm not sure how this is relevant to it being a good or bad pistol, but I do recall the elite GIGN using them often.
As far as Glock remaining #1, what a you referring to sales numbers?
Judging from the fact that you use "Kill" in your title suggests some sort of deeper resentment of an inanimate object for some reason
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Although the M&P45c holds 8+1, and still fits my hand like a full size gun. The Glock 30 holds 10+1 and I believe its near the same dimensions. M&P might have a longer barrel. I haven't shot the G30 so I dont know how the compact frame of the glock compares to the M&P, but the M&P is very soft shooting
Varmint
NES Member
15 rounds is definitely more useful for recon by fire.
knoxy
NES Member
Well, when I've shot them along with with sigs, rugers, & czs, the glocks have failed, the others didn't. That's my anecdote and I'm sticking to it.
If you like your glocks, you can keep your glocks.
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Kahr makes a whole line of single stack, striker-fired, polymer-framed guns and they have (IMHO) far better triggers out of the box. There are a bunch of other companies who make compact single stack 9mm guns as well. I'm not sure that that specific market segment has a ton of runway given the apparent saturation.
Glock has excellent brand recognition along with a reputation for high quality and excellent value. I think the smarter business move would be for them to extend into other, less saturated (or at least "disruptable") market segments where they can leverage those strengths. An affordable line of PDW style compact rifles that doesn't suck and doesn't cost H&K money maybe.
None of the above, really, although Smith is the only one gaining serious ground in Glock's market. (lots of PDs/agencies are going to the M&P from (insert some other major pistol brand here, Glock included). Sig could do it if they weren't mentally retarded and their CS didn't suck. The real problem is. though, none of them have the level of support and the number of armorers that Glock does. I can drive in an hour radius from my house and hit up like 6 Glock armorers and get most of the parts I would ever need, and that doesn't include the LE only types, etc. Nobody has the level of support and brand penetration that Glock does. Are there "on paper" better guns than Glock? Probably. That doesn't mean they'll be commercially viable or suitable as a duty pistol, though. HK could probably sell a shitload of pistols if they introduce a few other VP9 variants and beef up their marketing, and lay off the "gray poupon" marketing. (Actually at least that mustard had commercials. )
Military Contracts? Meh + Yawn. Most military outfits don't change their service pistols every 5 years, and half of that selection criteria rotates around things like ****ed up fetishes for safety levers and that kind of thing.... Every time someone brays about some military adopting a handgun I just kinda yawn and shake my head. I don't even pay any attention to military small arms stuff anymore, because that whole business is mind numbing.
There is also this thing where we're kind of at "law of diminishing returns". There are only so many things at this point you can do to a semiautomatic pistol. The product is not really the pistol anymore its everything else that goes with it. A bunch of people are making decent handguns that cost less than $700, the differences between them are now a lot more
subtle.... and often have more to do with the company itself than the product.
-Mike
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pdm
NES Member
It's probably why I have two G19s. I'm certainly not going to buy a VP9 without trying it first.
The real question you should be asking is more along the lines of "When are all the other gun companies going to get their shit together and stop sucking so much?"
At this point if any other manufacturer is in the room with Glock and S&W when it comes to double stack striker fired pistols, either of them can pull a Master Shake and basically go "Will you be quiet while the big people are talking?" and it's an entirely legitimate statement.
-Mike
Don't get me wrong- I think the VP9 has a chance in the market if HK supports it well and it starts developing a sort of legacy/reputation to it. The price point on the gun is a signal that possibly maybe (I think Bjork has a song with that title) HK is starting to undo a lot of its rectal-cranial inversion, but we all know how that works- like when HK brayed about making some of their guns available in MA and it took like 2 years for that to happen.... even though their guns were already on the roster.
![[laugh]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/012.gif "Laugh [laugh]")
-Mike
This!
Also, everyone who is screaming for innovation is also dead set on using a cartridge in that gun witch has been around since the 1902. And also love their AR15 platform that has been around since 1959. Besides using better and lighter materials there is not much to change on the damn thing.
Nick Fury
NES Member
Well something is not right (at least to Glock standards) with your grip for that to occur on a regular basis.
Blocky grip at a bad angle for many. No dispute there. A large hand coupled with shattered wrist from long ago happens to mate perfectly with Glock ergos so I am all set but not so blind as to see why others might have problems.
I like all guns. Minus those M&P POS'.
Only the cheapest of skinflints are going to fuss over spending another $50-100 on a lifesaving device. It's kind of a dead argument. Even with a professional grade trigger job factored in, an M&P is not that expensive, particularly not if you bought it used from one of the skinflints who got all pissy about how terrible his MA trigger was and did nothing about it, and sold the gun at a huge loss at the end.
![[rofl]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/013.gif "ROFL [rofl]")
-Mike
Only the cheapest of skinflints are going to fuss over spending another $50-100 on a lifesaving device. It's kind of a dead argument. Even with a professional grade trigger job factored in, an M&P is not that expensive, particularly not if you bought it used from one of the skinflints who got all pissy about how terrible his MA trigger was and did nothing about it, and sold the gun at a huge loss at the end.
-Mike
Im not saying its expensive by adding the trigger, that wasnt my point. An M&P an apex kit can be had for under $450. My point is that there would be many more people buying the M&P if it had a better trigger out of the box, and SW could step up their QC and not produce such gritty triggers with no resets.
I haven't tried the VP9. My only experience with HK pistols is the USPc. Frankly, the USPc sucks. It's bore axis is too high. The DA trigger pull is horrid. The mag release is awkward. And the slide is stupidly large. The result is a pistol that is significantly larger than a Glock 19 but has horrid ergonomics. If HK has fixed all of these problems with the VP9, then they might have something. If not, then I'm not interested. Oh, and go price a spare HK mag. HK45 magazine, $79.
http://us.hkwebshop.com/HKWebShop/show/byItemID/10117//318///////////true
![[rofl2]](/xen/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.vb/035.gif "ROFL2 [rofl2]")
Walther? Someone actually buys those?
I haven't handled the SIG P320. Looking at it, it still has the patented SIG stupidly high bore axis. No thanks.
The CZ P07 and P07 are still DA/SA. If you like DA/SA, CZ is a good gun to look at, with a very low bore axis. But if you prefer striker-fired guns, then DA/SA isn't going to cut it.
I haven't shot the M&P. It does seem competitive with Glock, but I don't see what it has that Glock doesn't.
ChevyGuy91
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That is basically the question I ask every time this conversation comes up.
I own a 45c. It is in my safe. I don't think it has been out of the safe for 5 years.
Out of the box, Glocks require new sights and the 25-cent trigger job. A 3.5 lb connector is not a bad idea. As for the HK, how is your accuracy with that God awful DA trigger pull?
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Grip angle, maybe? I will admit that I wish the Glock's grip angle was different.
ChevyGuy91
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I will admit that I struggled a little at first going from an expensive tuned 1911 to the Glock. I think it was a mixture of the difference in trigger (I leave my Glock triggers stock) and the grip angle, but after shooting the gun and some dry firing in the living room, I am over it. I liken it to going from driving a Ford Ranger to a SuperCrew long bed F350, it just took a little getting used to.
Agreed. I've been dry firing at the TV a lot lately.
richc
NES Member
I think the only company capable of killing Glock is Glock. It would require a string of back decisions, faulty products and poor customer service.
Honestly it would take actions similar to what Sig has been doing.
Honestly it would take actions similar to what Sig has been doing.
