Who will "kill" Glock?

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And yeah LCIs suck. Especially my SR9c. Big ass red flag, yeah I know it's loaded. I've heard of people grinding it away somewhat so it's not protruding so ****ing high. I like my XDs 45 LCI. Pretty subtle. I know when it's loaded, even though I always do a brass check.

I shot a glock once before maybe five years ago. I believe it was a 19 or 17. Hated everything about it. Shot a 26 last night and loved it. If only I could find one at a reasonable price to replace my USPc 9mm.

That slide is fat as shit. Reminds me of a Hi Point. It's like the short bus of guns.
 
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Some LCIs are spring loaded mechanical devices. Some are holes, which stop being holes when they get fouled up with residue, dust bunnies or anything else.
 
You just proved my point. You're experienced, so you have different desires and think different things are important. I'm not experienced, s every little feature that makes a gun slightly easier helps. When I get more experienced, I'll probably agree with you. But to me right now, those features are useful and important.

The thing is that an LCI actually makes a gun less safe, especially for an inexperienced user. New shooters should start with the basics, one of which is learning how to properly evaluate the status of a generic gun. None of this "if it's a Sig that was sold in MA, look through this hole but if it was a Kahr sold in CA look at this lever" crap. That's too much unnecessary crap for a new shooter to think about when they can (and should) just remember "check the chamber."
 
For those of you who prefer glocks to say M&Ps (or other similar offerings for that matter) would you still prefer them if you didn't live in MA and didn't have to worry about standard capacity mags being pre ban? I shoot and enjoy both and am actually on the fence which I prefer, but I can't help but think the ability to use magazines with more than 10 rounds has a lot to do with keeping glocks around.
 
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For those of you who prefer glocks to say M&Ps (or other similar offerings for that matter) would you still prefer them if you didn't live in MA and didn't have to worry about standard capacity mags being pre ban? I shoot and enjoy both and am actually on the fence which I prefer, but I can't help but think the ability to use magazines with more than 10 rounds has a lot to do with keeping glocks around.

I honestly own more 10 rojnders than pre ban mags , at first I was all about throwing my middle finger up to Mass by buying pre bans, now I could care less, $50 for 3 more rounds (g23) isn't worth it anymore to me. Glocks to me are just what they are, Glocks, that's why I own them.
I messed around with a friends M&p 9 and with the Apex trigger it was disgraceful, I'd seriously take a stock glock trigger over it, i especially don't like the elongated curve of the MP trigger. Also, the stupid lever inside to remove the slide... why, its just not needed.??? I asked my friend how he liked it and he said he probably will never get his money back.
Like i said in a previous post, watch out for the Strike One, I'm not betting it's a Glock "Killer" due to Glocks strong hold, but it has potential, that's what I'll be waiting for, not a Glock with HK or M&P written on it.
 
For those of you who prefer glocks to say M&Ps (or other similar offerings for that matter) would you still prefer them if you didn't live in MA and didn't have to worry about standard capacity mags being pre ban? I shoot and enjoy both and am actually on the fence which I prefer, but I can't help but think the ability to use magazines with more than 10 rounds has a lot to do with keeping glocks around.

no question the availability of >10rd mags for glocks contributes to their popularity outside of the USA (e.g in MA).

i've gotten the sense some people like to have a single magazine holding say 15 or 17 rds as opposed to a backup magazine in their EDC. this is partly why glocks are popular. personally i wouldn't carry a magazine >10 rds because i'm not interested in automatically being charged with a felony if my firearm gets used for anything. hate the break the bad news but .gov doesn't know (or care) whether it's a U- or square notch, but most .gov's can count to 10.

WRT glock popularity, I'm convinced Marcia's attempts to "ban" glock sales actually made them more coveted/desirable. in free states people seem to be far less enamoured by anything Glock.
 
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Im not trusting anything other than my own eyes when it comes to a round in the chamber. Mechanical devices can fail.

This.

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For those of you who prefer glocks to say M&Ps (or other similar offerings for that matter) would you still prefer them if you didn't live in MA and didn't have to worry about standard capacity mags being pre ban? I shoot and enjoy both and am actually on the fence which I prefer, but I can't help but think the ability to use magazines with more than 10 rounds has a lot to do with keeping glocks around.

I run 10 round magazines in my Glocks, so that's not the issue for me.
 
WRT glock popularity, I'm convinced Marcia's attempts to "ban" glock sales actually made them more coveted/desirable. in free states people seem to be far less enamoured by anything Glock.

I don't think so. Here is the 2012 IDPA Nationals equipment survey:

http://www.aafgidpa.com/admin/equpment_survey.htm

H&K - 2
SIG - 3
Beretta - 2
Springfield Armory - 25 (10 were 1911s, 15 were XDs)
S&W - 102 (5 1911s, 22 revolvers, the rest M&P)
Glock - 108

While clearly not representative of the market as a whole, it is interesting.
 
I don't think so. Here is the 2012 IDPA Nationals equipment survey:

http://www.aafgidpa.com/admin/equpment_survey.htm

H&K - 2
SIG - 3
Beretta - 2
Springfield Armory - 25 (10 were 1911s, 15 were XDs)
S&W - 102 (5 1911s, 22 revolvers, the rest M&P)
Glock - 108

While clearly not representative of the market as a whole, it is interesting.

What we really want to know is where they buy their fishing vests.
 
I don't think so. Here is the 2012 IDPA Nationals equipment survey:

http://www.aafgidpa.com/admin/equpment_survey.htm

H&K - 2
SIG - 3
Beretta - 2
Springfield Armory - 25 (10 were 1911s, 15 were XDs)
S&W - 102 (5 1911s, 22 revolvers, the rest M&P)
Glock - 108

While clearly not representative of the market as a whole, it is interesting.

Wow, not a single Ruger P-89 or P-90. I'm flabbergasted.
 
I don't think so. Here is the 2012 IDPA Nationals equipment survey:

http://www.aafgidpa.com/admin/equpment_survey.htm

H&K - 2
SIG - 3
Beretta - 2
Springfield Armory - 25 (10 were 1911s, 15 were XDs)
S&W - 102 (5 1911s, 22 revolvers, the rest M&P)
Glock - 108

While clearly not representative of the market as a whole, it is interesting.

It is a list of guns not to use [wink]
 
The only Rugers I have ever seen at an IDPA match were GP100s and those are both rare and usually being used by Ruger employees.

Don't know how IDPA revolver stuff works, but I bet we would see more Rugers in competition if they made an 8 hole model, and it didn't seem like you had to search half the planet to find a guy to do an action job on their guns. Only form of competition I've seen a ruger wheelgun in is bowling pins; since the guns are built like brick shithouses you can run really hot ammo in them without killing them. One guy (SA John, banned member here) used to run 170s and 180s in his all the time. He was a dick here but the guy knew how to kill bowling pins, I'll give him that much.

-Mike

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This is where the cool kids get their competition vests: http://www.armadilloconcealment.com/Home_Page.html

Do they come with washers or quarters pre-sewn into the vest? [laugh]

-Mike
 
Don't know how IDPA revolver stuff works, but I bet we would see more Rugers in competition if they made an 8 hole model, and it didn't seem like you had to search half the planet to find a guy to do an action job on their guns.

IDPA is a 6-shot game. ICORE allows 8-shot and USPSA just changed their rules to allow 8-shot.

Do they come with washers or quarters pre-sewn into the vest? [laugh]

No, but they are like High Power rifle coats -- stiff enough to stand up by themselves. [laugh]
 
I honestly own more 10 rojnders than pre ban mags , at first I was all about throwing my middle finger up to Mass by buying pre bans, now I could care less, $50 for 3 more rounds (g23) isn't worth it anymore to me. Glocks to me are just what they are, Glocks, that's why I own them.
I messed around with a friends M&p 9 and with the Apex trigger it was disgraceful, I'd seriously take a stock glock trigger over it, i especially don't like the elongated curve of the MP trigger. Also, the stupid lever inside to remove the slide... why, its just not needed.??? I asked my friend how he liked it and he said he probably will never get his money back.
Like i said in a previous post, watch out for the Strike One, I'm not betting it's a Glock "Killer" due to Glocks strong hold, but it has potential, that's what I'll be waiting for, not a Glock with HK or M&P written on it.

Why would you limit yourself?
 
Glock has dominated the LE market for over 30 years and how they accomplished that and overthrew giant S&W is a story that ought to be taught at Harvard Business School. In the beginning they literally gave them away, they also had a product that duplicated the functionality of the police revolver. Nobody saw them coming. At the time S&W thought Taurus was going to be the big threat as they flooded the market with lots of revolvers at a good price and their Beretta 92 clone made on original Beretta machinery left over from a Brazilian Army contract. Gaston Glock was a genius because he didn't have 150 years of firearms manufacturing tradition so he could think outside the box. Cops, however are not as innovative as one might think, and despite lip service to progress and technology, tend to stick to brands they know and trust. Glock has become the gold standard for LE sidearms and institutional purchases, a name that can be trusted just like Ford, Motorola and Monodonock. As Mike has pointed out, Glock has a great logistical network of armorers, distributors and parts are readily available. The issue becomes a known standard. Newer models are yet to be proven, the new Sigs, the new HKs, the new Walthers and the new FNs. No doubt some of these pistols will have some hiccups and require some modifications once they are issued in general quantity whereas the deficiencies of the Glock are well known and have been addressed with each Generation. In other words the Glock represents a mature technology. S&W realized the error of its ways early on but could not develop a viable competitive product. The reality is that the Sigma line was a very good knock off of the Glock, so much so that before some engineering changes were made, S&W had to pay a royalty to Glock on each Sigma sold. Even after the changes they were always regarded as "trash guns" but were remarkably durable. I saw one at S&W Academy that used by an instructor that had over 30K thru it, and he swore by it, and this is a guy who could shoot anything in the S&W line. The traditional metal DA/SA and DAO pistols, as good as they were, and for the most part, they were very good, were not as light or friendly as the Glock. Lots of people complain of the transition from DA to SA, it's never bothered me, but it is an issue with many, perceived or otherwise. This brings us to the M&P which currently is the only serious contender to the Glock, but how is it the serious contender? Well, initially by using Glock business tactics, literally giving the guns away and exchanging an M&P for a Glock or whatever on a one to one basis. S&W which is still an iconic brand and is more than just a name, it is American Legend, still evokes strong sentiment among a certain segment of the American shooter and LEO. Combine a competitive product, a household name, and an offer that is hard to refuse and you begin to see the M&P supplanting a portion of the Glock market.

As far as private sales go, civilians want what the cops carry, and 60 percent of American LE carries Glocks. In MA, Glocks might as well be made of unobtanium so they become the forbidden fruit. Like Coors Beer in decades past, or Yuengling in New England, you couldn't get it here, so it became more desirable, same deal.

In the end, what is the better gun? Damned if I know. I don't like Glocks, never have, never will, but that's a personal preference not an indictment of the gun itself. Hell, if you give me one, it's the best damn gun I ever got. I like Browning Hi Powers, 1911's S&W M39s and Third Gen S&W Pistols but those are what I used when I was developing as a wannabe shooter and quasi armchair pistolero, and probably none of 'em are as objectively as good as the Glock. I like the M&P cuz it has the backstrap options and I even have one in .45. As far as I'm concerned it is a nice gun. I'd love one in 9mm with a free state magazine, but I'll settle for the one in .45 here in MA solely because of that issue.

The fact that FNs are made in SC is a possible reason that Glocks may not be popular there. FN has produced some very nice handguns in their factory there for the last ten years or so. When I lived in GA, it was Glock country because Smyrna is the main Glock HQ in the US.

Glock has become what the S&W Model 10, The Colt SAA (which lingered on well into the DA Revolver era as a LE firearm) the 1911, and the Browning Hi Power, a standard. There might be better guns, newer guns, out there, but it is a reliable platform based on mature technology. You know what you are getting and that is why I believe they are so popular with people. Not my choice, ever, but I certainly would depend my life on one if that were my only option.
 
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Keep in mind commentary will be tainted by the fact the glocks are the only wonder gun that has preban mag availability. Asking a non ma crowd may yield more accurate results.

I would argue in a ban state they will never be replaced

Thats not entirely true. I took a pre-ban cz75 mag and modified it to sit flush on my CZ P01. With a little time, and creativity, you can make just about anything preban work in a CZ (maybe not the P07 though).
 
IMO the major advantage to a glock is I can service it easier than a shoe. Aside from having custom machine work done, I cant see a need for a gunsmith to service a glock for me.

Even my wife can fully disassemble her G34. It's another reason I dig glocks....so damn easy.

if a new design ever "kills" the glock, its gonna have to be even easier to service/disassemble and I dont see that happening soon.
 
You're limp wristing

Ha, OK. I gave glocks another chance a few weeks ago. After bitching about glocks to a buddy, he said "No way glocks are the best pistol EVAH!". He handed me some full size .40. I loaded up a mag, took it to the line, pulled back the slide and let it fly. ... failed to feed.... before I even pulled the trigger. Cleared it and tried again. Jammed again.

No limp wristing involved. ;)

After clearing the 1st 2 jams, it did function fine. His excuse was that I put too many rounds in the mag. [rolleyes]


I'll stick with my CZs, thanks.
 
I liked firing my grandfather's glock 17 with earlier LE light trigger but I like my beretta 92 better for some reason....also pre ban mags...vp9 looks yummy
 
Ha, OK. I gave glocks another chance a few weeks ago. After bitching about glocks to a buddy, he said "No way glocks are the best pistol EVAH!". He handed me some full size .40. I loaded up a mag, took it to the line, pulled back the slide and let it fly. ... failed to feed.... before I even pulled the trigger. Cleared it and tried again. Jammed again.

No limp wristing involved. ;)

After clearing the 1st 2 jams, it did function fine. His excuse was that I put too many rounds in the mag. [rolleyes]


I'll stick with my CZs, thanks.

if our glocks work a-ok... but then we hand them to you... and then they don't... it's not the gun.
 
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