What I hate most about Deval Patrick’s Bill H.4102

[kingfisher]

In forum discussions and in the media, I see H.4102 most often referred to as the “One Gun A Month Bill.” That seems to have been an effective moniker for them since most people not into guns probably think that being able to buy 12 guns a year is plenty. Maybe we need to re-frame the discussion so that legislators and the general public understand other important things about this bill.

Something that seems to have been mostly overlooked is the fact that H.4102 would require that all sales and transfers go through a dealer, and this is the part of the bill I hate the most!

This bill would outlaw face-to-face transfers, even between family members. This also means that if someone legally owns a firearm that cannot be transferred through a dealer because of the AG’s regulations, there would be no way to legally sell that firearm.

People who move into the state already owning certain firearms would not be able to sell them. People who inherit firearms that are not on "the list" would not be able to sell them, and people who want to buy those firearms would not be able to find one legally owned in the state and do a FTF transfer on an FA-10, like we can presently do.

Since when is it OK for the government to enact laws and regulations that make it impossible for citizens to sell property that they lawfully own?

I’m doing all I can to help fight H.4102 (calling and writing emails and letters), but just in case the worst happens… if anyone in MA has a Kahr Arms K9 or MK9 that they’d like to sell while it’s still legal to do so, feel free to PM me.

What a sad state of affairs...

 

[daveyburt]

agreed!

I'm my letters to representatives and in comments about media stories, I try to bring out that "This is much more than a one gun a month bill".

 

[Mike S]

Democrats. Banning guns, one sneaky law at a time.

 

[DickWanner]

Not only that, but the ignorant sheeple don't wish to educate themselves on the subject and take it for what gun grabbers tell them it is. All they see is "One Gun a Month Bill", which isn't nearly the whole truth. Or maybe they just don't want to educate themselves

 

[Alchemist17]

What isn't clear to me is what happens to the "registration" option on the FA-10 - this doesn't outlaw out of state purchases of long guns (or of purchases of non-compliant handguns by FFL holders).

 

[Mike S]

It will have to go through a dealer. EVERYTHING will have to go through a dealer.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

This junk demonstrates a masterpiece of maneuvering by the other side.

If GOAL deals with the specific badness of the "junk" (dealer transfers, etc.) the org quickly finds itself in the business of fine-tuning the one gun a month law - and implicitly accepting that one gun a month is OK. If GOAL opposes the entire law, and the momentum is against us on the flagship issue, the merits of the more onerous sections are never brought into the forefront and are not considered in the policy debate while they are pulled along by the "sound bite" issue.

So, it's fight the terrible stuff and get bad stuff because we set up for a one-sided so-called "compromise", or fight the bad stuff and get the terrible stuff along with it if we lose.

A VERY dangerous part of this law is how ANY misdemeanor becomes a disqualifier if committed in possession of a firearm - even if the misdemeanor is a non-violent offense that does not involve any actual or threatened use or display of the firearm.

 

[Admin]

Too bad the fudds were too busy baiting their stands to pick up the phone and call in against 4102.

 

[MA_Shooter]

Not only that, but the ignorant sheeple don't wish to educate themselves on the subject and take it for what gun grabbers tell them it is. All they see is "One Gun a Month Bill", which isn't nearly the whole truth. Or maybe they just don't want to educate themselves

One of my gripes with the recent editorials /articles in the newspapers and on TV is that they have intentionally leave out any reference to the current laws, which are some of the worst (and most comprehensive) in the nation. This is deceitful and dishonest. Most people have little or no idea how bad these laws really are and these news shows are misrepresenting the truth to advance a political agenda. I don't believe most of them are ignorant of the laws but rather they willingly participate in this charade. Same old story old but still BS nonetheless.

 

[Alchemist17]

It will have to go through a dealer. EVERYTHING will have to go through a dealer.

Incorrect. H4102 modifies Chapter 140, Section 128A, which regulates purchases from licensed dealers and Face to Face purchases. Section 128B (below) is left unchanged by this regulation, and states that for sales without the commonwealth one need only send CHSB the buyer/seller info and the weapons information, and no particular form is specified in the law. Thus purchases from out of state sources would still seem to be registrable via a letter to CHSB. The INTENT may be to have everything go through a MA dealer, but they're as incompetent at writing and understanding MA firearms laws as they are at governing.

Section 128B. Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than such a licensee or person, and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the executive director of the criminal history systems board the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number. Whoever violates any provision of this section shall for the first offense be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $1,000 and for any subsequent offense by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than ten years.

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

As posted by someone earlier, I like the idea of taking out a newspaper ad. is this at all possible by GOAL? ill chip in if needed and you think it will do any good. I think it would at least get the sheeple to read it, maybe change some minds and maybe get the gun owners who have never heard of our site, GOAL or these bills to understand what is at stake and do something.

 

[RadiCS]

I will also chip.

 

[Admin]

As posted by someone earlier, I like the idea of taking out a newspaper ad. is this at all possible by GOAL? ill chip in if needed and you think it will do any good. I think it would at least get the sheeple to read it, maybe change some minds and maybe get the gun owners who have never heard of our site, GOAL or these bills to understand what is at stake and do something.

It doesn't matter if 70% of the state is against it. They will vote their own way. They simply do not listen to the voters.

 

[lord1234]

so, is there some sort of grounds for a lawsuit by those of us who can't sell our non-MA compliant firearms anymore? Scriv? Jcohen? crossx?

 

[DickWanner]

so, is there some sort of grounds for a lawsuit by those of us who can't sell our non-MA compliant firearms anymore? Scriv? Jcohen? crossx?

You could still sell them to an FFL or transfer them through an FFL out of state.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Does this bill change the MGL interpretation that a stripped frame is a firearm only under federal law but not under state law?

 

[Kevlar]

Does this bill change the MGL interpretation that a stripped frame is a firearm only under federal law but not under state law?

IANAL, but it appears to...

SECTION 5. Section 121 of chapter 140 of the General Laws, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out, in line 39, the words “from which a shot or bullet can be discharged”, and inserting in place thereof the following words:- which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive

http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/house/186/ht04/ht04102.htm.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

IANAL, but it appears to...

Time to stock up on 1911 frames

 

[Maj. Boom Boom]

It doesn't matter if 70% of the state is against it. They will vote their own way. They simply do not listen to the voters.

Derek you are most likely right. but using that thinking why should we even bother to EM, Call or write letters? I would rather at least try. I know it's wishful thinking but if enough of us, and the people an ad would reach, get involved maybe, just maybe, we can stop it.

 

[MetalgodZ]

That's bad, yeah...but take a look at the Master Crime List. (Here: http://www.mass.gov/courts/admin/sentcomm.html)

So, you can go to jail...for 10 years...and get a nice, shiny FELON stamp...for ***ATTEMPTING*** any of the following while in possession of a firearm. (Up to you to determine when the crime was attempted and whether or not you were in possession of a firearm at the time.):

- Defacing or misusing a bottle/can with a deposit
- Blaspheming
- Disturbing a bird's nest
- Allowing my workers to sleep (if I'm a baker)
- Selling an arrowhead to another person
- Possessing "burglary tools" (think crowbar, lockpick, etc.)
- Flick a cigarette butt in the forest or in a field
- Removing the collar of a licensed dog
- Failing to license a dog
- Failing to properly dispose of a car

...And the list goes on.

Rope. F***ing rope.

Edit:
- "Misusing" the flag (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/264-5.htm)
- Fornicating (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-18.htm)
- Selling glue to a minor (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/270-19.htm)
- Not wearing enough orange while hunting (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/131-71.htm)
- Disturbing a library (http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/272-41.htm)
Do I need to go on?

 

[Twigg]

Revolution, uprising, coup d'état, revolt, usurp, sieze, ...oh heck somebody just git a rope and be done with it.

Sedition be dammed, all I can say is I feel sorry for you folks still there.

I spent 19 years living in Massachusetts and feel your pain.

 

[Coyote33]

I think more people will just "go underground". You don't really think we lost millions of gun owners since 1998, do you? They just stopped renewing their licenses. This will just become something else to ignore for some people. Heck, illegal aliens have nothing to lose.

 

[MetalgodZ]

I can't afford to take any loss on the house, but if this passes, it's going up for sale. No joke, and the wife is NOT happy about it, but I'm done here. I'd rather go back to NY and deal with discretionary pistol licensing than deal with this bullshit. Or deal with a NH commute while looking for work.