What are our options in a crowded harassment situation

[Chevy 2 65]

Practice mag changes and learn CQB pistol tactics. There's a great value in being able to fend off an attacker while drawing and firing at contact distance without shooting yourself in the process.




Video evidence from incidents like this proves that if you refuse to comply with the demands of the mob you will not be allowed to simply leave the area. When you attempt to leave, some of the mob/pack will break off and follow you and continue the harassment.



Given the number of diddlers in the Antifa/BLM mob, this is the option that should make you the most friends in the crowd.

Talk all you want, But do not touch me.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

This is how it will go.

View: https://youtu.be/A9NUhUC0Gxo?t=5

 

[308rifleman]

Don't know why I didn't think of these earlier.

▷Top 9 Best Cattle Prods For Self Defense [2020 Reviews]

Difficult to conceal. I prefer a small flat sap, carried in the back pocket.

 

[AHM]

I'm just spitballing here, but there is always a degree of victim selection here.

May depend on the kind of insanity involved.

Some few years back I read an Intarweb essay on violent criminals.

It partitioned them into two broad groups with different goals and behaviors.
One group is just out to eat you:
steal your stuff so they can have it,
and don't care what violence happens in the process.

The other group has drawn a mental dotted line around something,
and is protecting the integrity and honor of that turf
with whatever violence they think is merited.
That thing doesn't have to be a neighborhood, or a possession.
It could be a woman, or their image of someone, etc.

Individuals in a mob; well, I guess the mob removes some of their inhibitions.
But they may not all be in the same one of those two partitions.

I guess the looters are looking to eat the contents of a store or house,
and don't care what gets destroyed in the process.

But I guess the political rioters (especially "outside agitators"?) are
defending some abstraction like racial rights.

I don't recall that the article ended up recommending how to defend against
or deter one kind or the other kind. But if you went for the premise,
it might supply a tool to understand what you're seeing, or how to avoid it.

Walking past one kind of thug on a subway platform
might get you kicked to the tracks because your presence or behavior
was somehow a form of disrespect.
Walking past the other kind might get you mugged.

Back to what you were musing: You've probably seen advice about how
an aspect of not getting mugged is to shift the cost/benefit ratio
so that the mugger decides to wait for better odds.
Some of that advice might not help
when one has crossed paths with someone defending "turf".
Maybe some other advice is applicable...

All the above may not be directly constructive.
In which case, I'm jus' sayin'...

 

[NewGuyRay]

Talk all you want, But do not touch me.

My concern here is the bar fight tactic of "talking" to you while slowly inching close enough for a headbutt or a sucker punch.

 

[kevin9]

Like many things in life, the answer is lead, follow, or get of the way.
Personally I start with stay out of the way. It's one of the many reasons we live out in the country, and why I'm in no great hurry to go back to work. It's not like I work downtown, but it is more built up and I do have to drive through a few small cities.
"Follow" means safely in numbers. It's tougher these days as the best folks to traditionally follow, the police, a being kept on the sidelines in the current troubles. There aren't many groups of safety/protection-minded folks to hook up with either,
The latest poster-child for "lead" is Kyle Rittenhouse. He took care of his own safety, and as a result it's looking like he may have to endure being judged by 12 (even though he shouldn't be).

Note that one of the options is not "stop, get out of your car, and try to reason/argue with the threat". That's bad ju-ju all the way around.

 

[Climbnsink]

Retreat to a rifle. That is always the answer. If they follow you Kyle them.

 

[akma]

May depend on the kind of insanity involved.

Some few years back I read an Intarweb essay on violent criminals.

It partitioned them into two broad groups with different goals and behaviors.
One group is just out to eat you:
steal your stuff so they can have it,
and don't care what violence happens in the process.

The other group has drawn a mental dotted line around something,
and is protecting the integrity and honor of that turf
with whatever violence they think is merited.
That thing doesn't have to be a neighborhood, or a possession.
It could be a woman, or their image of someone, etc.

Individuals in a mob; well, I guess the mob removes some of their inhibitions.
But they may not all be in the same one of those two partitions.

I guess the looters are looking to eat the contents of a store or house,
and don't care what gets destroyed in the process.

But I guess the political rioters (especially "outside agitators"?) are
defending some abstraction like racial rights.

I don't recall that the article ended up recommending how to defend against
or deter one kind or the other kind. But if you went for the premise,
it might supply a tool to understand what you're seeing, or how to avoid it.

Walking past one kind of thug on a subway platform
might get you kicked to the tracks because your presence or behavior
was somehow a form of disrespect.
Walking past the other kind might get you mugged.

Back to what you were musing: You've probably seen advice about how
an aspect of not getting mugged is to shift the cost/benefit ratio
so that the mugger decides to wait for better odds.
Some of that advice might not help
when one has crossed paths with someone defending "turf".
Maybe some other advice is applicable...

All the above may not be directly constructive.
In which case, I'm jus' sayin'...

Which goes to the point you never truly know what's in someones mind until after it happens. With all these types of people and situations it's all about them, their wants and desires. You just happen to be their means to their ends. This kind of stuff is out there more and more every day and no real fault to the would be potential victims. I think mental preparedness and preparation needs to be settled way before an encounter takes place. Lastly, sad but true we're in the midst of societal devolution, we have no support from those who are supposed to be protecting us from all enemies both foreign and domestic.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

May depend on the kind of insanity involved.

Some few years back I read an Intarweb essay on violent criminals.

It partitioned them into two broad groups with different goals and behaviors.
One group is just out to eat you:
steal your stuff so they can have it,
and don't care what violence happens in the process.

The other group has drawn a mental dotted line around something,
and is protecting the integrity and honor of that turf
with whatever violence they think is merited.
That thing doesn't have to be a neighborhood, or a possession.
It could be a woman, or their image of someone, etc.

Individuals in a mob; well, I guess the mob removes some of their inhibitions.
But they may not all be in the same one of those two partitions.

I guess the looters are looking to eat the contents of a store or house,
and don't care what gets destroyed in the process.

But I guess the political rioters (especially "outside agitators"?) are
defending some abstraction like racial rights.

I don't recall that the article ended up recommending how to defend against
or deter one kind or the other kind. But if you went for the premise,
it might supply a tool to understand what you're seeing, or how to avoid it.

Walking past one kind of thug on a subway platform
might get you kicked to the tracks because your presence or behavior
was somehow a form of disrespect.
Walking past the other kind might get you mugged.

Back to what you were musing: You've probably seen advice about how
an aspect of not getting mugged is to shift the cost/benefit ratio
so that the mugger decides to wait for better odds.
Some of that advice might not help
when one has crossed paths with someone defending "turf".
Maybe some other advice is applicable...

All the above may not be directly constructive.
In which case, I'm jus' sayin'...

A lot of that goes back to situational awareness imo... I don't care what their motivation is. If I get bad vibes, and there isn't enough reactionary gap to make other decisions, the violence will be awesome and no warning given.

I am beyond worrying about consequences at this point. I just want to be left alone... if those terms aren't acceptable (which clearly they aren't anymore) so be it.

 

[Twigg]

I'd just leave a negative Yelp! review. Either that or burn it to the ground.

 

[atmay]

tl;dr

I’ve always been a fan of the Milwall Brick and a good switchblade.

 

[FiremanBob]

If I were a sheriff in one of these places I'd deputize a Night Watch of several hundred men armed with rifles, ready to do the job the police won't do with full "qualified immunity".

 

[AHM]

I am beyond worrying about consequences at this point. I just want to be left alone... if those terms aren't acceptable (which clearly they aren't anymore) so be it.

Always nice to have an escape plan.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

The Rittenhouse case shows how "going Korean" is a very valid strategy until one of the criminals gets killed ... as well as the idiocy of taking a protective assignment without full indemnification for all legal expenses from an entity with the ability to make good on such a contract.

 

[Deleted member 12999]

The Rittenhouse case shows how "going Korean" is a very valid strategy until one of the criminals gets killed ... as well as the idiocy of taking a protective assignment without full indemnification for all legal expenses from an entity with the ability to make good on such a contract.

Its also an example of how lawyers simultaneously ruin our society whilst also providing a service.

 

[AHM]

The Rittenhouse case shows ... the idiocy of taking a protective assignment without full indemnification for all legal expenses from an entity with the ability to make good on such a contract.

Unless someone else is somehow going to be one's proxy to do hard time in jail,
it's too low a stick for anyone to limbo down underneath it.


On a related topic, something I've never really seen explored on NES are the Mass. riot laws.
Which IIRC include not just how to read the Riot Act to the disorderly, but also:

• Town fathers' ability to deputize folks to help put down a riot,
• folks' legal obligation to participate in the posse (imagine the slapfest when staffed by basement-dwelling cocoa-sipping/plaid jammy-wearers), and
• town fathers' criminal liability for not promptly convening the torchlight parade when informed of a riot.

The mind reels...

One angle I don't recall encountering in the statutes,
is any protection for posse members who put the hurt on rioters;
let's call it a "bad-ass Samaritan" law. Maybe there's some modest language,
but nothing you'd want to use as a defense in the usual marsupial court trial.

Maybe all this has been kicked around someplace,
but it's before my time or out of my eyeshot.

 

[alan226]

Look them in the eye and tell them to suck your dick. Because it looks like they are experienced at it.

Then when they assault you, all bets are off.....

 

[alan226]

Another aspect of this equation is.... be a predator. BE A PREDATOR. Maybe the idea of being a gray man is fading. I'm just spitballing here, but there is always a degree of victim selection here. Work out. Put out a vibe that you are not to be f***ed with. That probably sounds gay, but I know the NESrs that I hang out with have it.

Don't negotiable with people. They see that as weakness. Granted... situational awareness matters. I don't put myself in bad situations, but if one finds you, go 0 to 60 if you are behind the power curve. If I am dealing with a predator they are going to immediately know that I am more comfortable with violence than they are and I'm better at it.

There is a degree in victim selection because the odds are like 10 or 20 to 1. They go into a nice restaurant with older clientele and pull this shit.

Let's see then go into a Home Depot and try it. Or maybe an Italian restaurant in NYC....

 

[alan226]

Dont be surprised when their tactics change and they begin to imitate flash mob like behavior and show up in a small town that lacks the police staff to respond......

these people are terrorists and folks need to start thinking outside the box in order to counter their next steps

We can all probably name a cute little town with a couple outdoor cafe's/seating and a population of 3500-4000 that has one, possibly two popo on duty max.....there are a plethora of teeny tiny college towns in NE that come to mind.......

How would that go down?

The lone popo in podunk town would rely on mutual aid from neighboring towns and the county sherriff......hopefully the state police would show up in time to clean up the aftermath.

If the terrorists are smart they'll stagger more than one event with two different groups and cause a hot mess of a response across multiple towns.

Two groups of 40-50 terrorists are all it would take to create a hot mess

So, while doing your best to avoid putting yourself in bad situations is the best course of action......it may not be enough and so folks need to ask themselves what would they do?

In your scenario, the people probably agree with what they are espousing..

 

[Waher]

Pop smoke, retreat through the kitchen under concealment.

Edit: I was kidding!

 

[watchman]

Dont be surprised when their tactics change and they begin to imitate flash mob like behavior and show up in a small town that lacks the police staff to respond......

these people are terrorists and folks need to start thinking outside the box in order to counter their next steps

We can all probably name a cute little town with a couple outdoor cafe's/seating and a population of 3500-4000 that has one, possibly two popo on duty max.....there are a plethora of teeny tiny college towns in NE that come to mind.......

How would that go down?

The lone popo in podunk town would rely on mutual aid from neighboring towns and the county sherriff......hopefully the state police would show up in time to clean up the aftermath.

If the terrorists are smart they'll stagger more than one event with two different groups and cause a hot mess of a response across multiple towns.

Two groups of 40-50 terrorists are all it would take to create a hot mess

So, while doing your best to avoid putting yourself in bad situations is the best course of action......it may not be enough and so folks need to ask themselves what would they do?

Your scenario would never happen it would not provide enough reaction for them to bother with. They are looking for populace areas so they get the attention they want.

 

[watchman]

Pop smoke, retreat through the kitchen under concealment.

This proves you don't need a gun if your constant response is retreat. I may get flamed but true and I work and have worked in areas most of you wouldn't go without the 1st marine division for back up. I used to do a lot of work out on the island you want to talk about scary you should be in one of those buildings without any backup.

 

[watchman]

Of course it would

The entire point of terrorism is to terrorize people that otherwise think they are safe/not subject to the reach of the terrorists

I doubt terrorizing less than ten people without a large crowd to entertain is their objective nor is visiting little podunk which most of them fear an retaliatory uprising of redneck retribution towards them from the locals. Could make a good screenplay though.

 

[watchman]

Who said anything about 10 people?

There are lots of small town establishments that have outside seating for several dozen people.....in one establishment alone

We've seen this MO play out before

they show up in a small town, cause a mess, shut down trafffic for an hour then get back in their cars with out of state plates and move on.

Ok, I haven't seen any instances where this has been played out in any tiny town maybe your news sources are better than mine but please feel free to show video I am always open to being wrong. BTW my little town did have a small all white BLM march but that's about it I don't think anyone went to watch either I think I went to Home Depot that day so I wasn't available..

 

[EddieCoyle]

Mace in a crowded area with no clear exits is a TERRIBLE idea.

Good way to start a stampede and then you'd really get hurt.

Not Mace (which is a proprietary spray) Pepper spray gel is what you want to use. You can spray it into the wind and it won't hit you in the face. It goes where you point it, and gets worse if the attacker tries to wipe it off.

If anyone wants some, I have it for sale at my shop in Littleton (or I'll ship it for actual cost).

 

[watchman]

There was no rat hole and they have no reason to change tactics they have a plan they are following. Your scaring yourself into thinking they can think outside the box but the intent is to draw attention and you can't get a big enough draw bothering podunk .. christ if they do that they might get an award for invigorating the community.

 

[watchman]

JPK if they come to my town and make some noise I will have to shut my windows so I can sleep that will be the extent of reaction most people around me will do.

 

[alan226]

I'd love to understand how you made the leap from the former to the latter

Teeny college town...

 

[Climbnsink]

JPK if they come to my town and make some noise I will have to shut my windows so I can sleep that will be the extent of reaction most people around me will do.

Your post reminded me of someone joking that we as a nation have been so dulled by porn and wanking they can't get anybody outside for the civil war they want.
Evil-globohomo-new-world-order-types: First we pacify them with free porn, then we get them fighting each other in the streets hahahahaha
Oops. Just because they are evil doesn't make them smart.

 

[watchman]

Your post reminded me of someone joking that we as a nation have been so dulled by porn and wanking they can't get anybody outside for the civil war they want.
Evil-globohomo-new-world-order-types: First we pacify them with free porn, then we get them fighting each other in the streets hahahahaha
Oops. Just because they are evil doesn't make them smart.

But then again;

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War