we've probably hashed this to death

[Mountain]

Is that a staple gun?

It's a Taurus Curve. Perfect platform for 9mm.

 

[40 Creedmoor fan]

@40 Creedmoor fan 's "real" gun:

View attachment 848794

Where did you get this photo of me!?

 

[G4Y4HK]

My townie cop who graciously awarded me the right to get my LTC said during interview he recommends I get a 45 designed to take 10 in the mag. "You civilians are only allowed to have 10. Why have a gun designed for 15, or 17 or 18 when you have to use a 10 round mag in there? Just have a gun that was meant for 10 to begin with". HK45 is the best choice.

 

[Mountain]

Where did you get this photo of me!?

I work a side gig as a technician for Clean Harbors. I found that pic in Reptile's basement when we were hired to remove substances not to be mentioned.

 

[T-Unit]

Thinking about all my auto pistols, I have multiple ones in several common calibers, but only one in .25, 10mm, and .45 and the odds are that my next .45 is going to be a Glock 38. Why I didn't get the other .45's I mentioned before was at the time I wanted the P90, they were all selling for over $500 on gunbroker and I thought that was higher than their true value while the Beretta it's intriguing with that rotary barrel system, but it goes in the Glock 21 category of looks very big and blocky.

The Hi Point I ended up getting because I wanted to own one long term to form my own opinions on them and not just have a vague memory of that time I rented one for an hour at a range and I figure the only Hi Point worth its salt is the .45.

Can't help but notice I'm more averse to a full size .45 than a subcompact like the M&P or a Kahr, but the issue with those is the capacity absolutely sucks. The one subcompact .45 that didn't have that issue is the Rock Island doublestack 1911 that holds 10 and has a 3 inch barrel, but folks on here said that 3 inch 1911's are like cancer and should never be thought of, let alone bought.

Even if I wanted a target .45, instead of blowing 3 grand on a tuned 1911 you know what I'd do instead? Buy a S&W 25/625 or Ruger Blackhawk. Likely more accurate and a fraction of the price.

 

[M1911]

My 3" 1911's carry very easily and have been totally reliable.

3” 1911s are typically the least reliable of 1911s and they are 7+1. I have had several 4” 1911s and still have one. While it has been reasonably reliable for a 1911, none of my 1911s (and I’ve had 7 or 8) have been as reliable as my Glocks.

Here behind the wire in MA, my Glock 43x has 10+1 capacity. In a free state, a P365 can have as much as 17+1 capacity.

 

[M1911]

Although when I carry a 3 " 1911 I don't notice any weight difference even though there is a bit of a difference it’s minimal really. We've all fired 45acp for the most part. In fairness 45acp recoil isn't a big deal. 9 mm is snappy. 45acp is rearward push that I find more acceptable than snappiness. I do carry 45acp as well as 9mm though. Then again I carry a snubby sometimes as well. Like most of us what I plan to do determines what I carry.

I was just at the range today. I fired my 2 Glock 19s and my full size, stainless steel Kimber in 45 ACP. I can tell you that the 1911 had significantly more muzzle rise than my Glock 19s and my splits were slower (I was using a shot timer, so I’m not guessing on this).

I didn’t find 9mm to be “snappy” at all. YMMV.

I’ll post real numbers later today or tomorrow.

I competed with 1911s and carried them for years. I don’t anymore.

 

[ThePreBanMan]

I like the cartridge but it's expensive to shoot regularly. Capacity as others have mentioned.... I'll add weight. Carrying a gun chambered in 45 acp with even only 8 or so rounds is a lot heavier than the same in 9mm.

 

[M60]

3” 1911s are typically the least reliable of 1911s and they are 7+1. I have had several 4” 1911s and still have one. While it has been reasonably reliable for a 1911, none of my 1911s (and I’ve had 7 or 8) have been as reliable as my Glocks.

Here behind the wire in MA, my Glock 43x has 10+1 capacity. In a free state, a P365 can have as much as 17+1 capacity.

So that you don't think I'm a 1911 snob I'll say that I do have 3 glocks and 2 Sig P365's but my 1911's are reliable including the 2 3" versions. I wouldn't carry them if they weren't reliable.

 

[M60]

I was just at the range today. I fired my 2 Glock 19s and my full size, stainless steel Kimber in 45 ACP. I can tell you that the 1911 had significantly more muzzle rise than my Glock 19s and my splits were slower (I was using a shot timer, so I’m not guessing on this).

I didn’t find 9mm to be “snappy” at all. YMMV.

I’ll post real numbers later today or tomorrow.

I competed with 1911s and carried them for years. I don’t anymore.

Your point I take is that you prefer to carry 9mm. I don't think anyone disputes that. Everyone is different. Thats why they make so many flavors of ice cream.

 

[M60]

3” 1911s are typically the least reliable of 1911s and they are 7+1. I have had several 4” 1911s and still have one. While it has been reasonably reliable for a 1911, none of my 1911s (and I’ve had 7 or 8) have been as reliable as my Glocks.

Here behind the wire in MA, my Glock 43x has 10+1 capacity. In a free state, a P365 can have as much as 17+1 capacity.

10 round Chip McCormick 45acp mags work for me as back up carry magazines

 

[M60]

I like the cartridge but it's expensive to shoot regularly. Capacity as others have mentioned.... I'll add weight. Carrying a gun chambered in 45 acp with even only 8 or so rounds is a lot heavier than the same in 9mm.

I reload so range time is cheaper. Carry ammo is a bit more pricy but Most people that carry 45acp I assume feel that their lives are worth the little more that 45acp may cost. The added weight of a alloy framed 45acp is minimal

 

[M60]

I like the cartridge but it's expensive to shoot regularly. Capacity as others have mentioned.... I'll add weight. Carrying a gun chambered in 45 acp with even only 8 or so rounds is a lot heavier than the same in 9mm.

Yes the weight of the 45acp round is heavier. Its heavier on the receiving end too.

 

[PatMcD]

Even if I wanted a target .45, instead of blowing 3 grand on a tuned 1911 you know what I'd do instead? Buy a S&W 25/625 or Ruger Blackhawk. Likely more accurate and a fraction of the price.

Highly doubtful. If that was the case, National Champions would be using them.
They're not.

 

[PatMcD]

It also becomes clear to me that folks who say 9mm is every bit as good as 45, always compare 45 230 ball ammo to the latest 9mm hydro-shok, whiz-bang loadings.

 

[M1911]

It also becomes clear to me that folks who say 9mm is every bit as good as 45, always compare 45 230 ball ammo to the latest 9mm hydro-shok, whiz-bang loadings.

Hydrashok is a very old bullet design. I haven’t used that in more than 10 years. I use Federal HST. I never carried ball ammo in 45. I always carried a high quality 230 gr JHP. I’ve never compared 9mm JHP to 230 gr ball — that would be very disingenuous.

What I’ve read is that police experience in shootings with modern bullets in 9 mm, .40 SW, and .45 ACP has shown there to be little real world difference.

 

[weekendracer]

45 is the best mainstream cartridge other than the magnums, but 9mm has nearly the same performance and higher capacity.

I recommend 9mm if high capacity is available, but if capacity is limited, 45.

This, I have some Wilson or Dan Wesson extended mags for my 1911's, barely adds anything to the grip length for 2 or 3 more rounds.

 

[weekendracer]

The only advantage the .45 has over 9mm is that it makes a bigger hole. That's it. It loses when it comes to capacity, gun size, weight, recoil, ammo cost...

I'd also say range in my experience. I can shoot 40 and 9 to 100 with little elevation needed, 45 needed more elevation, but I wasn't shooting 'hot' loads in the 45.

Granted using a pistol at those ranges is 'sub optimal', but if you need to reach out, 9 and 40 will do it with quality rounds.

 

[M60]

I'd also say range in my experience. I can shoot 40 and 9 to 100 with little elevation needed, 45 needed more elevation, but I wasn't shooting 'hot' loads in the 45.

Granted using a pistol at those ranges is 'sub optimal', but if you need to reach out, 9 and 40 will do it with quality rounds.

Massad says that 185 gr. 45acp is spot on at 100 yards. I'll bet even M1911 agrees with this.

 

[M60]

Hydrashok is a very old bullet design. I haven’t used that in more than 10 years. I use Federal HST. I never carried ball ammo in 45. I always carried a high quality 230 gr JHP. I’ve never compared 9mm JHP to 230 gr ball — that would be very disingenuous.

What I’ve read is that police experience in shootings with modern bullets in 9 mm, .40 SW, and .45 ACP has shown there to be little real world difference.

Pretty sure that Pat is pointing out the unfair comparison of many rather than the Hydra Shock round specifically. I'm sure that Pat wouldn't mind if you inserted Federal HST where he used Hydra Shock. The result of what he said would be the same.

 

[M1911]

Massad says that 185 gr. 45acp is spot on at 100 yards. I'll bet even M1911 agrees with this.

I have no experience with 185gr. I’ve only ever shot and carried 230gr. I’ve shot that to 50 yards, but not 100.

 

[M1911]

Pretty sure that Pat is pointing out the unfair comparison of many rather than the Hydra Shock round specifically.

I addressed the unfair comparison as well.

 

[M60]

Pretty sure that Pat is pointing out the unfair comparison of many rather than the Hydra Shock round specifically.

I have no experience with 185gr. I’ve only ever shot and carried 230gr. I’ve shot that to 50 yards, but not 100.

I was referring to what Massad Ayub said about 185gr. 45acp. As a long time 1911 fan you must be familiar with what Ayub said about 185gr. 45acp at 100 yards aren't you? Has nothing to do with your actual experience.

 

[M1911]

I was referring to what Massad Ayub said about 185gr. 45acp. As a long time 1911 fan you must be familiar with what Ayub said about 185gr. 45acp at 100 yards aren't you? Has nothing to do with your actual experience.

I’m quite familiar with Massad Ayoob. I’m not familiar with what he has said about 185 gr. I also don’t much concern myself about what a pistol round will or won’t do at 100 yards.

 

[T-Unit]

Highly doubtful. If that was the case, National Champions would be using them.
They're not.

Probably cuz they don't know how to shoot revolvers.

 

[M60]

I’m quite familiar with Massad Ayoob. I’m not familiar with what he has said about 185 gr. I also don’t much concern myself about what a pistol round will or won’t do at 100 yards.

Neither do I. In general if the bad guy is that far away I shouldn't be shooting at him. I was merely addressing the comment about 100 yard shooting.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Overall I like the 45 ACP round and love the 1911 platform. I even carried a 3” Kimber 1911 for a while. The problem was that I never could get used to carrying cocked and locked. Finally gave up on it after a bit because of it.

 

[rewster]

Same could be said of 124gr...

The POINT was people were complaining about CAPACITY !!!!

 

[Supermoto]

Massad says that 185 gr. 45acp is spot on at 100 yards. I'll bet even M1911 agrees with this.

Massad, lol. Which eye is he using to aim?

 

[garandman]

Lots of us like .45.
But we don't talk about it so that we don't get shit on by 9mm high cap snobs.
Ain't worth the effort to argue.

“First rule of .45 Club. Don’t talk about .45 Club. Second rule of .45 Club. Don’t talk about .45 Club.“

The POINT was people were complaining about CAPACITY !!!!

To which I’ve always asked, pertaining to civilian personal defense and defensive use of shotguns, “What problem is solved by 8 rounds that is not solved by five rounds?”