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Trump Banned Bump Stocks
- Thread starter Reptile
- Start date
I just got back from a great vacation in "Hill Country" Texas.
During that vacation I went several times to this amazing 3000 Acre ranch, where you can petty much do what you want.
Want to rent a quad runner and take it up hills that are scary as hell...no problem...just if you break it (or break yourself) you pay for it. They even had a heli-pad to pickup the folks who pushed their limits a bit too hard.
You could rent about any kind of weapon including fully automatic M-16's (I didn't because you can blow out 60 bucks of ammo really fast), 50 cal's and even the big boy 50 cal Desert Eagle.
What you couldn't do was use a bump stock. Being the inquisitive mind that I am, I asked them why and got a pretty simple answer. The idiots who shoot them can't control their fire and kept shooting over the berms, hence endangering the folks elsewhere on the 3000 acre ranch, doing other activities.
So I ask more as a devils advocate than anything....If we as responsible gun owners feel that training, training and more training is key AND you can't even shoot a bump stock in a range in Texas of all places; where would one go to train in the use of said-bump stock? I know that I wouldn't want to shoot or be around anyone shooting a bump-stock equipped weapon. If the Texans think it's a stupid accessory that they don't want to be around, I'll take their word there.
And yes let the flaming begin. First post I asked folks to be gently, now I fully expect to get smashed. And I'll say, I in no way compare detachable mags with bump stocks...One can safely shoot their weapon very will with the former...The Texans (I never shot one because I couldn't) tell me that the latter is so counter intuitive to accurate shooting that they just don't consider it safe, even on a range (and they had some big ones!).
During that vacation I went several times to this amazing 3000 Acre ranch, where you can petty much do what you want.
Want to rent a quad runner and take it up hills that are scary as hell...no problem...just if you break it (or break yourself) you pay for it. They even had a heli-pad to pickup the folks who pushed their limits a bit too hard.
You could rent about any kind of weapon including fully automatic M-16's (I didn't because you can blow out 60 bucks of ammo really fast), 50 cal's and even the big boy 50 cal Desert Eagle.
What you couldn't do was use a bump stock. Being the inquisitive mind that I am, I asked them why and got a pretty simple answer. The idiots who shoot them can't control their fire and kept shooting over the berms, hence endangering the folks elsewhere on the 3000 acre ranch, doing other activities.
So I ask more as a devils advocate than anything....If we as responsible gun owners feel that training, training and more training is key AND you can't even shoot a bump stock in a range in Texas of all places; where would one go to train in the use of said-bump stock? I know that I wouldn't want to shoot or be around anyone shooting a bump-stock equipped weapon. If the Texans think it's a stupid accessory that they don't want to be around, I'll take their word there.
And yes let the flaming begin. First post I asked folks to be gently, now I fully expect to get smashed. And I'll say, I in no way compare detachable mags with bump stocks...One can safely shoot their weapon very will with the former...The Texans (I never shot one because I couldn't) tell me that the latter is so counter intuitive to accurate shooting that they just don't consider it safe, even on a range (and they had some big ones!).
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I do have plenty of video contradicting your friends’ assertions. However, idiots of all shapes and sizes are incapable of keeping a simple handgun on the berm at any number of distances. Does that mean the rest of us who can shouldn’t be allowed to shoot handguns?
Not even worth articulating a response past that. Suffice it to say you and your Texan friends are wrong.
Not even worth articulating a response past that. Suffice it to say you and your Texan friends are wrong.
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Individualist
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Which is probably why Trump and GOP will sacrifice bump stocks to make it look like they are doing "something". Not a ton of gun owners are going to give two sh!+s, except for the hard core Constitutionalists, who on principal alone would be right, but in reality probably won't get the support.
ChevyGuy91
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I don't give a shit about bumpstocks. I do give a shit about aftermarket triggers, adjustable gas systems, varying weights of buffers, you know, all the things that appear to "increase the rate of fire", like a bumpstock.
With all due respect, I think the "good old boys" I met, would never infringe on any fire-arm enhancement that could be safely shot on their ranch. Even the bump stock advocates seem to agree, it's a really inaccurate way to shoot. I grew up in Missouri (got my first 4:10 when I was 10 years old along with a Mossberg 146B 22LR). My Dad always instilled in me that if you can't shoot what you're aiming at accurately, you shouldn't be shooting. Show me one video of a guy hitting even a 4 inch group at 50 yards using a bump stock and I'd be very surprised.
Couldn't agree more! All things that are vital to accurate shooting. Which while I agree it's a slippery slope, we need to hope that President Trump is smart enough to understand the different between a match grade trigger and a bump stock. Good luck taking my Mark III with the amazing Volquartsen trigger and other enhancements that make it an amazingly accurate firearm! That said, everything you mention, is about increased accuracy, which in my opinion is increased safety.
Bottom line, isn't the entire idea of being a responsible gun owner at a minimum shooting it safely and accurately? I have no use for accessories that make a firearm less accurate (safe) and fully advocate those that do.
namedpipes
NES Member
Sure, shoot safely. But if you don't, there are laws in place right now to resolve the matter. We don't need a new law to double extra make sure.
I don't think a single person on this site has ever said a bump stock is a worthwhile accessory that improves accuracy and speed. At best they are toys.
And banning bump stocks is also not the true objective of the bump stock ban.
I don't think a single person on this site has ever said a bump stock is a worthwhile accessory that improves accuracy and speed. At best they are toys.
And banning bump stocks is also not the true objective of the bump stock ban.
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4” at 50 yards in full auto is your benchmark? That’s f***ing retarded. I haven’t seen an Uzi, MAC/11, Tommy Gun, M60, SAW, or really ANY full auto shoot 4” groups hand held at 50 yards.
Completely beside the point because accuracy is not a qualifying factor to be protected by the Second Amendment.
I’m sure you support the Second Amendment BUT... who needs enemies with friends like these?
Completely beside the point because accuracy is not a qualifying factor to be protected by the Second Amendment.
I’m sure you support the Second Amendment BUT... who needs enemies with friends like these?
ChevyGuy91
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Everything I mentioned may increase my ability to shoot my rifle more accurately, but it in no way makes the firearm anymore accurate then it was before hand.
I have personally made these aftermarket upgrades to indeed increase my ability to shoot the rifle faster while still making hits. People who shoot rifles in the action games do it all the time.
If the target of this legislation is to remove my ability to shoot a rifle "faster", you had better believe it will include such modifications. Don't be so short sighted. Don't be such a Tory.
not new guy
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Oooooo! The gentleman hath gone there!
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ToddDubya
NES Member
This needs to be the case and if so, he needs to let us off the hook. Running at this level of anxiety is unhealthy for me. I'm trying to be supportive but if we get screwed I'm out.
We have a long standing precedent on states ignoring Fed laws, like weed and illegals, why not get your local politicians to make a sanctuary county for bumpstocks or NFA. I am not trolling, fully serial. Get LE on board with this shit, they swore the oath to constitution too. It won't happen in MA, it may NH, why not set the tone for the rest of the country? NH is a f***ing shining beacon of freedom, you guys want to talk to your local dudes?
I think that this approach is much more manageable. You can probably talk to entire NH town in one day since cows don't vote. Get on the same page, say Constitution is the law of the land, f*** this commie noise. Are you with me?
I think that this approach is much more manageable. You can probably talk to entire NH town in one day since cows don't vote. Get on the same page, say Constitution is the law of the land, f*** this commie noise. Are you with me?
Earlier today Trump said bump stocks will be gone and they've almost finished the legal paperwork to do so.
Anyone still want to defend his statements?
Anyone still want to defend his statements?
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Im just curious if they'll be an amnesty.. historically they dont take your stuff.
I only bought a bump stock because i knew they arent machine guns and that just like some other items they would be declared NFA after the fact..
It would be great to have it entered to the NFA registry from a financial aspect, which once again is why I bought it..
People will be paying $10,000 in no time.
Im curious to know how many have been produced...i bet few would register even if allowed....
If there is an amnesty, im frothing to "submit" to my overlords.
I only bought a bump stock because i knew they arent machine guns and that just like some other items they would be declared NFA after the fact..
It would be great to have it entered to the NFA registry from a financial aspect, which once again is why I bought it..
People will be paying $10,000 in no time.
Im curious to know how many have been produced...i bet few would register even if allowed....
If there is an amnesty, im frothing to "submit" to my overlords.
kevin9
NES Member
Anyone have a link to the actual language? Am curious about the legal justification and mechanism they're trying to use to implement said ban, and whether current owners are grandfathered.
Bad move on Trump's part. He should have at least left this in Congress's court, better yet off the table altogether. IMNSHO he never was the perfect candidate, coming from big business, but still better than Hitlery. He's still on the positive side of the ledger to me, but noticeably less so. We'll see what happens come 2020.
While I’m also curious, in the end, it doesn’t change the fact no matter what excuse they use, they have no lawful authority to do so and it’s blatantly unconstitutional. Only congress has authority to pass laws (and regulations are clearly such) and not even they have authority to pass laws restricting people from keeping or bearing arms.
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Txt isn't available yet, cant wait to see how they piss on law and order...it takes an act of congress to pass a legitimate law.
Trump had better be very careful...if he loses his base he'll have made an amateur mistake.. and if he starts to slip again after the next eneviatable act of violence and the NRA doesnt start treating him like obama. Ill be done with them aswell.
Trump had better be very careful...if he loses his base he'll have made an amateur mistake.. and if he starts to slip again after the next eneviatable act of violence and the NRA doesnt start treating him like obama. Ill be done with them aswell.
At the end they may come up with some kind of a sensible compromise. They will require teachers to mount it on their mandatory gear while children all the way to 50 may not purchase it.
kevin9
NES Member
All true, but it appears to be a done deal, at least in term of proposed regulation, so I'm trying to see what the next steps might be, focusing on solutions rather than just the problem. Can it be fought via public comment/review? Might Congress overrule? Can/will it be challenged in court?
I hear you and totally agree, which is why I’m also curious.
MachineHead
NES Member
I think if anything’s going to happen, it’ll happen in court. I don’t think SlideFire Solutions is going to take this lying down and will get big funding for a lawsuit. Even if you’ve never owned one, this over-reach is going to be inspiration for taking away something you do own.
The ATF ruled twice that these were not machine guns and can’t be classified as machineguns, when they had the public opinion period, they had 85% of respondents choose against reclassification. Either the ATF was wrong the whole time or Sessions is wrong this time, there’s no way they can both be right at the same time. I can see this being a strong point for a lawsuit. Hopefully, if there is a case, that it’s argued in the most pro2A fed court possible.
Since when does the DOJ have the ability to modify the US Code?
No need for anyone to answer. It’s rhetoric.
26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions
(b) Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
No need for anyone to answer. It’s rhetoric.
26 U.S. Code § 5845 - Definitions
(b) Machinegun
The term “machinegun” means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.
MachineHead
NES Member
“...by a single function of the trigger...” is key. The second part of the definition is important as it appears to refer drilling out the “third hole” for the machinegun. But this in no reasonable way can classify bump fire stocks as MGs.
Maybe this is a 3d chess game being played by Trump & the NRA to get the effective 1986 ban on MGs tossed in SCotUS case and reopen the NFA registry for new MGs?
Excuse me while I chug some Koolaid. But it would be nice if it worked out that way right?
Excuse me while I chug some Koolaid. But it would be nice if it worked out that way right?
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