The move towards red dot sights

[Supermoto]

Also, with a RDS pistol, make sure you don’t get into a gunfight in the rain...

Or in a dark area with the target in a bright area if it has auto adjust brightness

 

[E.Stoner]

Also, with a RDS pistol, make sure you don’t get into a gunfight in the rain...

Myth.

 

[Supermoto]

Myth.

Have you shot in the rain with a RDS? When water gets on the diode then the dot can't project on the lens. The only RDS that doesn't have this problem are tube style like the aimpoint

 

[E.Stoner]

Cool story, I have shot in the rain and I also just took an RMR and sprayed (doused) it with water and not only could I see the dot clearly, but I also wasn't kiltinthestreets. I'll post the video in a minute.

 

[meh]

Interesting thing is that, as long as I have +0.75 lenses on my safety glasses when I have my contact lenses in, I can shoot a rifle with more precision using a good set of irons with a peep rear. On rifles red dots are much faster, of course, but I don't enjoy recreational shooting with them for some reason. The story is different with handguns. With handguns it's hard for me to come close to the same accuracy with irons that I can with a red dot. That right there makes it more fun.

 

[M1911]

if someone has established that muscle memory on irons there shouldnt be a change when they go to red dot.......and no resulting wiggle........gun comes up to same point off aim regardless......no?

Yeah, no.

When you present the gun, you see the irons as you bring the gun and you have learned to adjust that subconsciously to align the sights. In contrast, with the red dot either you see the dot or you see nothing and have to fish for it, with no cues as to which way to turn the gun to find it.

 

[E.Stoner]

It's raining, I guess i'll die?

 

[Tinkermatic]

As someone with astigmatism, ya'll can keep your red dots. On rifles a LPVO(or regular old scope), or prism is what I prefer. Etched reticles make a difference. Pistols? a red dot is more of a hinderance than a help. Guess I'm stuck in the dark ages when it comes to sidearms, and I'm quite alright with that.

 

[BrianWilson]

If you spend enough time against the cement wall in the basement indexing the sight is not an issue, both on the draw and transitions. Strong hand and weak hand just take a little more work. If the dot doesn't just appear where ever you look...head back down the stairs for another couple thousand hours.

No doubt what so ever at my age I can shoot more accurately and faster with a dot, and the all important calling the shot is more, much more instinctive.

Folks that are worth listening to will tell you all else being equal irons are faster and dots more conducive to accuracy at moderate distances.

That being said....for a carry gun, until such time as open carry becomes a thing mini red dots just aren't all that mini.

It's also one thing to step up to the line for LAMR and be thinking to yourself...."Well, I hope this thing still works".....

Luv me some red dot, but for carry I go with a big fiber optic front and Crimson Trace grips.

 

[Supermoto]

It's raining, I guess i'll die?

That doesn't look like a crisp dot at all

 

[E.Stoner]

That doesn't look like a crisp dot at all

View attachment 295611

There it is! Not a big deal.

 

[Supermoto]

I found some more dots

 

[Bonesinium]

I love the internet. We will argue about anything!

Like anything, there are advantages and disadvantages to both. I enjoy shooting both RDS and iron sights. I find both to be effective. There are certainly trade-offs but I'm definitely not going to dismiss one or the other.

 

[E.Stoner]

I found some more dots


View attachment 295618

Pro tip: Aim with the bright one.
Trust me, it's not a big deal as evidenced that it's still clearly visible in one frame of a cell phone video. The emitter tray completely filled with water, which is the worst case scenario with rain and it's not that bad. A little shake and its razor sharp again.

 

[Bonesinium]

I bet in a gun fight, in the rain, shooting at speed, under stress, at moving targets, while moving; a wet and blotchy RDS will be every bit as effective as wet irons. I mean with irons you are probably only shooting the notch anyways, if that, right? I've not been in a gun fight, and certainly not one in the rain, but I can't imagine a wet RDS will be what makes or breaks the outcome for you.

 

[Supermoto]

Pro tip: Aim with the bright one.
Trust me, it's not a big deal as evidenced that it's still clearly visible in one frame of a cell phone video. The emitter tray completely filled with water, which is the worst case scenario with rain and it's not that bad. A little shake and its razor sharp again.

You have multiple dots from when you spray the emitter until you shake it and your pro tip is to shoot the brightest dot

 

[Bonesinium]

You have multiple dots from when you spray the emitter until you shake it and your pro tip is to shoot the bright dot

Dude, you took a still shot from a video. In the video, which is a far better representation of how it would look in real life, it seemed pretty apparent to me where the dot was. Here's a couple more screen shots from the same time, when it was moving around. Seems pretty evident where the dot is, no?

 

[MaverickNH]

Take SIG’s Red Dot Pistol Fundamentals, their 2-day Defensive Pistol Red Dot and then their Low Light Pistol using your Red Dot. You will know strengths and how to overcome weaknesses. I’d say 2-4 out of a dozen at each class were LEOs from various agencies training or evaluating Red Dots to recommend and/or train Ted Dots at state and federal agencies.

Gotta have 2/3rd or full cowitness iron sights. My Romeo1 battery just up and died on my SIG P320 RX Compact at the range - so I used the suppressor iron sights. My Glocks have RMRs on them - tougher than nails.

If you’re an old fart and can’t get much out of iron sights anymore, Red Dots are the bomb. Go cheap and you *will* know why many find faults with them. Like a LD rifle, you will spend 1/2 the cost of you pistol or more on good Red Dots and Suppressor sights. Or go cheap and buy airsoft Dots, fake body armor, etc. Your choice.

 

[MaverickNH]

Again, the problem is with odd shooting positions where you don't have muscle memory.

You’re right there - lay on your side to shoot under a barrier and it’s easier to find the irons first than the dot. I get lost looking for the dot in odd positions. I don’t train enough to make that automatic and never will.

 

[Supermoto]

Dude, you took a still shot from a video. In the video, which is a far better representation of how it would look in real life, it seemed pretty apparent to me where the dot was. Here's a couple more screen shots from the same time, when it was moving around. Seems pretty evident where the dot is, no?

Oh yeah, it seems pretty awesome that when in the rain, sometimes there is somewhat of an idea where the dot is and other times not so much. All for a sight system that's only benefit is accuracy outside self defense distances.

 

[Bonesinium]

All for a sight system that's only benefit is accuracy outside self defense distances.

That's it's only benefit? Now you are just being argumentative. It's clearly not the only benefit, and I know you also know this.

 

[Supermoto]

That's it's only benefit? Now you are just being argumentative. It's clearly not the only benefit, and I know you also know this.

What other benefit is there?

 

[E.Stoner]

 

[Bonesinium]

What other benefit is there?

Not other benefit, other benefits.

Not needing to align sights. Being able to focus on target and not front sight. Quicker follow up shots. Quicker transitions. Helpful to people with vision limitations. Easier when shooting from non-optimal positions. Easier to see in low light or darkness.

 

[Supermoto]

Not other benefit, other benefits.

Not needing to align sights.

It is easier and faster to align sights then find a dot on a screen at self defense distances, you pick up you front sight quicker and can make corrections, That if you even use your sights 10-12yards is where dot gain an advantage

Being able to focus on target and not front sight.

You can do this with irons at any distance and be accurate

Quicker follow up shots

. Nope not at self defense distance, further out, maybe unless you lose the dot in the screen which happens with these little carry optics, 10-12 yards is about where the dot starts to have an advantage

Quicker transitions.

Again, not at self defense distances nor even further out, you see a front sight sooner than finding the dot on the target when transitioning into a target, you can make corrections sooner with irons

Helpful to people with vision limitations.

Not if its an astigmatism, but I'll give you that one

Easier when shooting from non-optimal positions.

Definitely not, quite the opposite

Easier to see in low light or darkness

. If its dark for the target too, sure. If you are in and out of light, nope. the dot will set the brightness of where you are, not the target. A flashlight can wash out a dot though

 

[Bonesinium]

You’re being pedantic. I’m done. You’re right. Red dots are dumb.

 

[E.Stoner]

You’re being pedantic. I’m done. You’re right. Red dots are dumb.

Literally the worst!

 

[Supermoto]

You’re being pedantic. I’m done. You’re right. Red dots are dumb.

I never said they were dumb, I said the only benefit is accuracy outside self defense distances. Is the gain of accuracy at distance worth some of their negatives? that is up to people to decide

 

[30 cal slut]

Here is an interesting read by Sage Dynamics on the subject if you are so inclined.

The concept of RDS on pistols was initiated by sports shooters decades ago but has been recently validated by the military and law enforcemenr.

I really think the inflection point in mass adoption of RDS on pistols is here, now.

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/7dc128_0ce3f826e1264cff964d64079552b640.pdf

 

[Wickedcoolname]

In my experience anything that takes batteries will shit the bed right when you need it most. So for me a red dot sight on a target or plinking gun might be fine. But on a combat or self defense weapon I prefer to keep things as simple as possible.