FYI, I did the similar thing yesterday myself, I shot instinctively at my range target 15' away two clips of ten from 2 different handguns.
What caliber? Fotay? Fo five? 9 milli?
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FYI, I did the similar thing yesterday myself, I shot instinctively at my range target 15' away two clips of ten from 2 different handguns.
If my friend and I walking down the street have a man pull a gun on us and we both draw down and shoot 9 innocent people and kill that man, do we not get a free pass to prison? Hell, If it were even two bad guys and they had just executed a shopper while robbing a conveinence store and I managed to shoot one and overpenetrate, killing the girl behind the counter, I'd still get sent to prison.
Shouldn't be any different because your wearing a badge. If you draw your gun from any distance and miss 90% of your shots on target and there's an innocent living backstop behind it, you absolutely should be sent straight to PMITA prison. The bad guy didn't even fire on them...
Sure. See the recent discussion in the Colorado shooting.
Some suggested even with a CCW they would be nervous to use it because in that setting they would be likely to hurt innocents as well and would certainly go to jail for it.
They might shoot you, but they would have been aiming for someone else!And then the cops would shoot you as soon as they showed up if you still had the gun out, and believe me, you'd then be the second shooter, not an armed citizen trying to stop the bad guy.
And then the cops would shoot you as soon as they showed up if you still had the gun out, and believe me, you'd then be the second shooter, not an armed citizen trying to stop the bad guy.
They might shoot you, but they would have been aiming for someone else!
What makes everyone think that the shooter would not have hit bystanders if he started shooting at the 2 cops?
What you going to do, take one for the team?
I think I am done with this thread.
What makes everyone think that the shooter would not have hit bystanders if he started shooting at the 2 cops?
What you going to do, take one for the team? ...
What you going to do, take one for the team?
I think I am done with this thread.
What do you take offense to? The fact that people here are calling out the obvious fact that the police should not have fired at the bad guy knowing there was a huge number of innocent bystanders right behind him? Sure, most of us haven't been in that situation, but one of the first things they teach you in any shooting class is that you know what is behind your target and you don't shoot if you can't make the shot. I would hope that most cops understand that if their backdrop is a crowd of people, shooting is not an acceptable situation, or at least dumping a whole magazine is inappropriate.
The police could have backed away, they could have tried to calm the guy down, but instead they immediately escalated the situation, and shot 8 bystanders, making this situation far worse than it would have been otherwise. If the police didn't show up at all, the bad guy goes home, the police arrest him later, no one else is hurt. Instead, they chose to engage the bad guy in an extremely crowded area, and apparently didn't take into consideration the welfare of the people around them.
At my club, we have this sign posted at every firing line. It says something about being responsible for every single bullet that comes out of your gun.
Or are you being sarcastic?
When I was in the military, I prayed there were never any friendly fire on us. It did happen though.
OK, they should have let the guy pull the gun and shoot some more, that makes sense. It's nice to learn about back ground and who is behind the shot, but when your butt is on the line, you do what you have to do or become a victim.
Dude, this not sound logic. What would have happened if the police hadn't cornered the guy? Do you still think he would have pulled his weapon? Very doubful. He was looking to get out of Dodge as quickly as possible, not looking for a shootout. Even if the police surrounded him in some building later, or his home, they could have been in control of the situation at that point, and cleared the area. This whole situation was poor judgement on their part, their butt wouldn't have been on the line as you say, if they had not decided to corner an obviously armed man in the middle of a busy, city street.
Just watch COPS on a Saturday night. Even with a camera rolling, they won't cut you any slack if you don't listen to them and their instructions.
And I'm not your Dude.
Dude. You're comparing an episode of "Cops" with two of NY's finest mowing down 8 bystanders?
Here we go. I can just hear the cops with their automatic machine gun pistols, saying to each other, if this guy pulls a gun, how many bystanders can we mow down?
This whole situation was poor judgement on their part, their butt wouldn't have been on the line as you say, if they had not decided to corner an obviously armed man in the middle of a busy, city street.
Here we go. I can just hear the cops with their automatic machine gun pistols, saying to each other, if this guy pulls a gun, how many bystanders can we mow down?
By the way, not your Dude either.
Probably a basic survival instinct to not move toward the business end of a hostile weapon.I sort of wonder why he didn't just tackle the guy.
. . . So the police know a man with gun is on the street, has killed one guy, and may be about to up the count. They pursue and see the muzzle of a gun turning their direction in close quarters. Is there anyone here who CCWs who wouldn't have drawn their weapon firing if put in the officers shoes? . . .
So, we support RKBA, believing that each person has the human right to use deadly force when we or our loved one are threatened with death or grave bodily harm... and we hope not to hit innocent bystanders, but it's an acceptable risk (even in a dark, crowded, panic-filled theater) when it comes down to my life and/or the lives of my loved ones vs a bad guy.
I think there's a general consensus on this board in favor of the above statement, (can I get an "amen, brutha!"?)
So the police know a man with gun is on the street, has killed one guy, and may be about to up the count. They pursue and see the muzzle of a gun turning their direction in close quarters. Is there anyone here who CCWs who wouldn't have drawn their weapon firing if put in the officers shoes? I know I would have. It's the survival instinct coupled with training and available tools.
The officers will have to live with the results of their shooting... Possibly the result of poor marksmanship training, but aside from remedial weapons training, I don't believe they should be punished.
The real investigation and action plan should be focused on combat marksmanship training. I would expect whoever is in charge of that at NYPD should feel the heat, or better, tender his/her resignation in favor of someone with an improvement plan.
Guess I missed the call from them asking for my advice...
They should be fired. I don't view that as punishment. It's more "you suck at your job. we won't be needing your services".
So, we support RKBA, believing that each person has the human right to use deadly force when we or our loved one are threatened with death or grave bodily harm... and we hope not to hit innocent bystanders, but it's an acceptable risk (even in a dark, crowded, panic-filled theater) when it comes down to my life and/or the lives of my loved ones vs a bad guy.
I think there's a general consensus on this board in favor of the above statement, (can I get an "amen, brutha!"?)
So the police know a man with gun is on the street, has killed one guy, and may be about to up the count. They pursue and see the muzzle of a gun turning their direction in close quarters. Is there anyone here who CCWs who wouldn't have drawn their weapon firing if put in the officers shoes? I know I would have. It's the survival instinct coupled with training and available tools.
The officers will have to live with the results of their shooting... Possibly the result of poor marksmanship training, but aside from remedial weapons training, I don't believe they should be punished.
The real investigation and action plan should be focused on combat marksmanship training. I would expect whoever is in charge of that at NYPD should feel the heat, or better, tender his/her resignation in favor of someone with an improvement plan.
Guess I missed the call from them asking for my advice...
The issue isn't them deciding to shoot. The issue is they were responding to shots fired looking for an armed suspect and 1) didn't have their guns already drawn and 2) Were poor marksmen.
.