Shooting reported outside Empire State Building

xtry51 said:
I don't think we need any more information than the video showing two officers chasing a shooting suspect with their guns holstered. More information may come out, but none of it will explain away this gross ineptitude.
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i kind of thought the video looked like tom and jerry trying to sneak up on spike. i'm not trying to be funny, either.
 
5-0 said:
What would be the 'water' equivalent to a man who just shot someone, and was still armed moving down a street? Not being sarcastic here, just following your analogy.

If you worked that analogy to its conclusion, you want the firefighters to follow the fire to see if it lights any more fires before stopping it?...
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Well that's part of why I'm glad I wasn't faced with the situation.

I don't think it is right to "assume" the shooter is done and just wants to go home. I don't think what was done was right either, based on the details that have been provided in the media.

My vast experience earned through carefully watching T.J. Hooker, Miami Vice and Rookie Blue would indicate you should assess, contain and then control. These officers appear to have gone straight to the control part, perhaps bypassing some important steps.

I can imagine scenarios where it might be necessary - not at all sure this was one:

So under what circumstances would you, 5-0, shoot at a suspect standing in front of a crowd of innocents?
 
Terminator03 said:
Chances are very good that the perp would have isolated himself, and used his own "exit strategy" had he not been cornered, which would have saved not only a few lives and numerous innocent injuries, but would have saved taxpayers millions in upcoming litigation costs as well. This guy did not fit the profile of a crazed gunman just looking to kill innocent people.
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The perps "exit strategy" was non-existent. He turned in his keys to his landlord and had no intention of returning to his apartment. News media have speculated that he was evicted but no "official" reports have been issued.

The perp put five or six slugs into the head of his former boss and he does not meet the profile of a crazed guman???
 
Crazed gunman kill a target and then proceed to shoot everyone in sight. They don't shoot one person, put the gun away in a bag and walk away down the street.

So no, doesn't fit the profile of "crazed man who needs to be stopped at any cost which includes endangering the lives of as many innocent people as it takes to stop him."

There's a reason police sometimes call off car chases. That reason is because the risk of injuring other people is high. I fail to see how that logic somehow should change when the object changes from a car to a gun.
 
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xtry51 said:
Crazed gunman kill a target and then proceed to shoot everyone in sight. They don't shoot one person, put the gun away in a bag and walk away down the street.

So no, doesn't fit the profile.
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this. i said several posts ago he was probably on the way to a nice park bench to shoot himself in the face and cause no more trouble than for the people who had to scrape his sorry ass brains off the grass.
 
TayNinh_66 said:
Whenever someone points a gun at me. You wouldn't?
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What if you're the one causing them to pull the gun? If you instigate a person to draw on you, then proceed to shoot innocent bystanders, do you think you shouldn't be arrested for that?

The job of the police is to PROTECT THE PUBLIC, NOT CATCH THE CRIMINAL AT ANY COST.

When I have to choose between a gunman getting away and eight people being shot/wounded, the clear choice to protect the public is to let him go.
 
atilla said:
this. i said several posts ago he was probably on the way to a nice park bench to shoot himself in the face and cause no more trouble than for the people who had to scrape his sorry ass brains off the grass.
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I think he decided on suicide by cop. Why else would he point his gun at them but not fire?
 
TayNinh_66 said:
The perps "exit strategy" was non-existent. He turned in his keys to his landlord and had no intention of returning to his apartment. News media have speculated that he was evicted but no "official" reports have been issued.

The perp put five or six slugs into the head of his former boss and he does not meet the profile of a crazed guman???
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Apparently crazed gunman have now changed how they operate and do not shoot unarmed people pursuing them.

"A witness told CNN's Rose Arce that the gunman ran after and shot a man in the head. An unarmed guard chased the gunman away, the witness told Arce."
 
TayNinh_66 said:
I think he decided on suicide by cop. Why else would he point his gun at them but not fire?
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If we go along with everything else on this thread, you really have no idea. He have have intended suicide by cop. It sort of looks like he was thinking, "oh, the cops are coming for me. I should draw my gun," then he either realized he didn't want to shoot a cop, or freaked out, or whatever, and they lit him up. It looked like he had the drop on the cops and had a few seconds to shoot if he intended to. In that moment, who knows? Most civilians, even the ones who shoot their bosses, don't train for this.
 
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/27/us-usa-shooting-empirestate-police-idUSBRE87Q04X20120827

The shooting was a rare example of the drawbacks posed by so-called hollow-point bullets. The New York Police Department started using those 14 years ago to reduce the likelihood of hitting bystanders, even though in this case the use of such bullets may have resulted in the opposite effect.
............
However, the hollow-point bullets are more prone to fragment or ricochet when they hit a hard object such as the concrete planters used at the popular tourist attraction as security barriers against terrorist attacks, studies show.
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Ok.... but this still means they missed a bunch of times...
 
TayNinh_66 said:
The perps "exit strategy" was non-existent. He turned in his keys to his landlord and had no intention of returning to his apartment. News media have speculated that he was evicted but no "official" reports have been issued.

The perp put five or six slugs into the head of his former boss and he does not meet the profile of a crazed guman???
Click to expand...

What I was referring to as "exit strategy" was that he was likely planning to turn the gun on himself knowing that life as he knew it was over. Your mention of him turning in his keys is just further evidence of this thought process.

xtry51 said:
Crazed gunman kill a target and then proceed to shoot everyone in sight. They don't shoot one person, put the gun away in a bag and walk away down the street.

So no, doesn't fit the profile of "crazed man who needs to be stopped at any cost which includes endangering the lives of as many innocent people as it takes to stop him."

There's a reason police sometimes call off car chases. That reason is because the risk of injuring other people is high. I fail to see how that logic somehow should change when the object changes from a car to a gun.
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I agree completely, and that was what I was saying in my previous post.
 
5-0 said:
Its the textbook definition of (MMQB) when you don't have a complete picture of the exact information they had available to them at the time, which I reasonably believe we do not.
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Oh. So, exactly like every time police arrest someone and then try to figure out the details, right?

Difference is, these guys are on the job, while Joe Citizen cools his heels in the tank for months.
 
Yes. I concede this internet argument.

Well played. [grin]

achievementrk.jpg
 

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