Shooting reported outside Empire State Building

Kudos to the two NYPD cops who stopped an armed killer. They were given a description, and pursued the perp without calling in for backup. That's courage. When the perp turned on them with a pistol, they drew their weapon and opened fire. A trained reponse. They fired until the perp dropped. Good decision.
Most large PD's qualify once a year. Most cops never fire their service weapon in the line of duty. The two cops went through their fear and responded appropriately to a deadly threat. I am surprised they hit him as many times as they did considering the inevitable adrenaline rush. And a 12lb trigger pull?

It takes a lot of combat experience to finally respond to hostile situations like joe cool. Sometimes things happen really quickly and you don't get a lot of time to think. These 2 cops were out their on their own. They deserve a medal for heroism. (and a little time at the range wouldn't hurt)
 
TayNinh_66 said:
Kudos to the two NYPD cops who stopped an armed killer. They were given a description, and pursued the perp without calling in for backup. That's courage. When the perp turned on them with a pistol, they drew their weapon and opened fire. A trained reponse. They fired until the perp dropped. Good decision.
Most large PD's qualify once a year. Most cops never fire their service weapon in the line of duty. The two cops went through their fear and responded appropriately to a deadly threat. I am surprised they hit him as many times as they did considering the inevitable adrenaline rush. And a 12lb trigger pull?

It takes a lot of combat experience to finally respond to hostile situations like joe cool. Sometimes things happen really quickly and you don't get a lot of time to think. These 2 cops were out their on their own. They deserve a medal for heroism. (and a little time at the range wouldn't hurt)
Click to expand...

"That's courage"? That's their ****ing job. It's what they sign up to do.
 
TayNinh_66 said:
Kudos to the two NYPD cops who stopped an armed killer. They were given a description, and pursued the perp without calling in for backup. That's courage. When the perp turned on them with a pistol, they drew their weapon and opened fire. A trained reponse. They fired until the perp dropped. Good decision.
Most large PD's qualify once a year. Most cops never fire their service weapon in the line of duty. The two cops went through their fear and responded appropriately to a deadly threat. I am surprised they hit him as many times as they did considering the inevitable adrenaline rush. And a 12lb trigger pull?

It takes a lot of combat experience to finally respond to hostile situations like joe cool. Sometimes things happen really quickly and you don't get a lot of time to think. These 2 cops were out their on their own. They deserve a medal for heroism. (and a little time at the range wouldn't hurt)
Click to expand...

They also almost stopped 9 innocent people dead in their tracks. Heroism award, key to the city maybe?
 
TayNinh_66 said:
Kudos to the two NYPD cops who stopped an armed killer. They were given a description, and pursued the perp without calling in for backup. That's courage. When the perp turned on them with a pistol, they drew their weapon and opened fire. A trained reponse. They fired until the perp dropped. Good decision.
Most large PD's qualify once a year. Most cops never fire their service weapon in the line of duty. The two cops went through their fear and responded appropriately to a deadly threat. I am surprised they hit him as many times as they did considering the inevitable adrenaline rush. And a 12lb trigger pull?

It takes a lot of combat experience to finally respond to hostile situations like joe cool. Sometimes things happen really quickly and you don't get a lot of time to think. These 2 cops were out their on their own. They deserve a medal for heroism. (and a little time at the range wouldn't hurt)
Click to expand...

Not sure if srs...
 
TayNinh_66 said:
Most large PD's qualify once a year. Most cops never fire their service weapon in the line of duty.
Click to expand...

My sarcasometer is broken today so..

I hate the excuse for shitty cop shooting always being a lack of training. If they got more training, people would bitch that it was a waste of time/money for something that statistically they are unlikely to ever need.

As professionals, they should take it upon themselves to get out to a range with regularity and stay sharp. I bet they could even write-it off. If they don't like shooting guns, then they should probably find a ****ing job that doesn't require you carry one every day.

In my line of work, I regularly bone up on shit I rarely deal with... just so it doesn't get me fired if I have an emergency come up and I need to show some level of competence in those areas. In a cop's case, their and other lives are on the line.
 
TayNinh_66 said:
Kudos to the two NYPD cops who stopped an armed killer. They were given a description, and pursued the perp without calling in for backup. That's courage. When the perp turned on them with a pistol, they drew their weapon and opened fire. A trained reponse. They fired until the perp dropped. Good decision.
Most large PD's qualify once a year. Most cops never fire their service weapon in the line of duty. The two cops went through their fear and responded appropriately to a deadly threat. I am surprised they hit him as many times as they did considering the inevitable adrenaline rush. And a 12lb trigger pull?

These 2 cops were out their on their own. They deserve a medal for heroism. (and a little time at the range wouldn't hurt)
Click to expand...

100% wrong from start to end.
 
TayNinh_66 said:
Kudos to the two NYPD cops who stopped an armed killer. They were given a description, and pursued the perp without calling in for backup. That's courage. When the perp turned on them with a pistol, they drew their weapon and opened fire. A trained reponse. They fired until the perp dropped. Good decision.
Most large PD's qualify once a year. Most cops never fire their service weapon in the line of duty. The two cops went through their fear and responded appropriately to a deadly threat. I am surprised they hit him as many times as they did considering the inevitable adrenaline rush. And a 12lb trigger pull?

It takes a lot of combat experience to finally respond to hostile situations like joe cool. Sometimes things happen really quickly and you don't get a lot of time to think. These 2 cops were out their on their own. They deserve a medal for heroism. (and a little time at the range wouldn't hurt)
Click to expand...

They shot 9 innocent people.

Let that sink in for a while. If it still doesn't register, please make an appointment for a cat scan, your shits broken.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
Justin said:
They shot 9 innocent people.

Let that sink in for a while. If it still doesn't register, please make an appointment for a cat scan, your shits broken.
Click to expand...

So you it is your position that cops should lie face down when a killer points a pistol at them if there are more than ten civilians within one hundred feet of the killer? twenty civilians? Two hundred feet?

What exactly do you think cops should do when a killer points a weapon at them? Return fire only when the killer fires first? Shoot nerf balls?

My psychiatrist's said I do not need a brain scan.
 
Justin said:
They shot 9 innocent people.

Let that sink in for a while. If it still doesn't register, please make an appointment for a cat scan, your shits broken.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

some people are so "pro police" that they become "anti public safety."


Tay is the guy thats ok with the police shooting 9 innocent people just to stop one person. Thats ok in his world. Why? Well none of those innocent people were important to him. It's more important to him to get the bad guy at any cost, than it is to be able to not worry about being shot from police with tiny amounts of weapon training.

- - - Updated - - -

TayNinh_66 said:
So you it is your position that cops should lie face down when a killer points a pistol at them if there are more than ten civilians within one hundred feet of the killer? twenty civilians? Two hundred feet?

What exactly do you think cops should do when a killer points a weapon at them? Return fire only when the killer fires first? Shoot nerf balls?

My psychiatrist's said I do not need a brain scan.
Click to expand...

if the police cant make every shot count, they shouldnt fire.
 
TayNinh_66 said:
So you it is your position that cops should lie face down when a killer points a pistol at them if there are more than ten civilians within one hundred feet of the killer? twenty civilians? Two hundred feet?

What exactly do you think cops should do when a killer points a weapon at them? Return fire only when the killer fires first? Shoot nerf balls?

My psychiatrist's said I do not need a brain scan.
Click to expand...

Try reading what we wrote and you'd know. We said have the guns drawn when you respond to an active shooter scene, don't fire when civilians are behind the target (since its your job to PROTECT THEM) and when you do shoot make sure you can hit the damn target from 3 yards away.

This is a clear negligent shooting. If a civilian had acted in that manner they would be in jail, and justly so. These guys are not heros, they're untrained idiots with badges.
 
I generally agree with the responses to my post. Blame the cops for panicking, sure, (I still think there's some armchair commando-ing going on here...) but my point is don't let the buck stop there. This is going to keep happening until their suitability for service standards and training are radically changed, and that's the responsibility of people above their pay grade.
 
TayNinh_66 said:
Kudos to the two NYPD cops who stopped an armed killer. They were given a description, and pursued the perp without calling in for backup. That's courage. When the perp turned on them with a pistol, they drew their weapon and opened fire. A trained reponse. They fired until the perp dropped. Good decision.
Most large PD's qualify once a year. Most cops never fire their service weapon in the line of duty. The two cops went through their fear and responded appropriately to a deadly threat. I am surprised they hit him as many times as they did considering the inevitable adrenaline rush. And a 12lb trigger pull?

It takes a lot of combat experience to finally respond to hostile situations like joe cool. Sometimes things happen really quickly and you don't get a lot of time to think. These 2 cops were out their on their own. They deserve a medal for heroism. (and a little time at the range wouldn't hurt)
Click to expand...

Dear God, theres a LOT of FAIL here[rolleyes]

Do you think for one second that YOU would be hailed as a hero is you shot 9 other people drying to defend yourself against a armed gunman??? NOPE, you would be locked up and sued until beyond broke.

If you carry a gun for any reason its your duty to be proficient enough top use it. If you make a living carrying a firearm, its your duty to
get whatever training is needed regardless if it is paid for your by your dept or not.

Just about EVERY type of professional job requires you to constantly improve or at very least maintain a skill set to remain employed, and more often than that this is NOT funded by the employer. "They dont get enough training" is not a valid answer. While I dont BLAME these cops, I do BLAME the culture and unions that surround them and allow these mentalities to continue
 
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TayNinh_66 said:
So you it is your position that cops should lie face down when a killer points a pistol at them if there are more than ten civilians within one hundred feet of the killer? twenty civilians? Two hundred feet?

What exactly do you think cops should do when a killer points a weapon at them? Return fire only when the killer fires first?
Click to expand...

In most circumstances, yes. Wait until theyre in a better position with regards to backstop and actually practice shooting their duty weapons, missing from that distance is unacceptable.
 
30Mauser said:
I generally agree with the responses to my post. Blame the cops for panicking, sure, (I still think there's some armchair commando-ing going on here...) but my point is don't let the buck stop there. This is going to keep happening until their suitability for service standards and training are radically changed, and that's the responsibility of people above their pay grade.
Click to expand...

NYC cant afford it. Cops with little firearms training will be the status quo there for a long time.
 
Dench said:
NYC cant afford it. Cops with little firearms training will be the status quo there for a long time.
Click to expand...

I believe in thinking outside the box.

Could a PD set a requirement that officers participate in some sort of competitive sport like IDPA?

If they can't set a requirement, can they create incentives?

That shifts the cost off the PD to the officer.
 
Tyke said:
No he just said you're an idiot -- didn't need to perform a brain scan.
Click to expand...

No, they all said I was just crazy and gave me a lifetime supply of thorazine.

FYI. My name is not Tay. Tay Ninh is home of War Zone C. French Fort, Michelin Rubber Plantation, Operation Attleboro, base of the 196th LIB when they first arrived in country. It's just north of the Iron Triangle, HoBo woods, Bo Loi woods, 25th Inf Div country.
 
TayNinh_66 said:
No, they all said I was just crazy and gave me a lifetime supply of thorazine.

FYI. My name is not Tay. Tay Ninh is home of War Zone C. French Fort, Michelin Rubber Plantation, Operation Attleboro, base of the 196th LIB when they first arrived in country. It's just north of the Iron Triangle, HoBo woods, Bo Loi woods, 25th Inf Div country.
Click to expand...

What does that have to do with anything?
 
Make_MA_2A_Compliant said:
Your name is Tay to us, as that is all we have to go on. And your blind defense of these to morons is due either to naivety, or you are a cop/related to a cop/friend of a cop, etc. Let's look at it this way:

Two legally armed citizens shoot and kill an armed man in self defense. In the process, they also shot 9 innocent bystanders.

What do you think should happen to the two legally armed citizens in the above example?
Click to expand...


Tough crowd tonight. No, i am not a cop. nor an arm chair wannabe commando second guessing two cops who put it all on the line.
 
Make_MA_2A_Compliant said:
Two legally armed citizens shoot and kill an armed man in self defense. In the process, they also shot 9 innocent bystanders.

What do you think should happen to the two legally armed citizens in the above example?
Click to expand...

Put aside everything about LE for a second. If this WAS two legally armed citizens, would we as a 2A community parrot the language of media as '9 people shot' when the last report (that I can find) was that only 3 were shot, and the rest hit by fragments of something (bullets, concrete, etc?) The fact is, that on any city street, you would have to argue that NO ONE ever shoot (citizens or cops), because with the amount of concrete, and amount of people, unless you have 100% hit ratio and perfectly expanded rounds... something bad could happen.

I don't think that anything should happen to a citizen or cop that acts in good faith.
 
"A review of law enforcement shootings clearly suggests that regardless of the number of rounds fired in a shooting, most of the time only one or two solid torso hits on the adversary can be expected. This expectation is realistic because of the nature of shooting incidents and the extreme difficulty of shooting a handgun with precision under such dire conditions. The probability of multiple hits with a handgun is not high. Experienced officers implicitly recognize that fact, and when potential violence is reasonably anticipated, their preparations are characterized by obtaining as many shoulder weapons as possible."

FIREARMS TRAINING UNIT
FBI ACADEMY
QUANTICO, VIRGINIA

July 14, 1989

"Since most shootings are not anticipated, the officer involved cannot be prepared in advance with heavier armament. As a corollary tactical principle, no law enforcement officer should ever plan to meet an expected attack armed only with a handgun.

The handgun is the primary weapon for defense against unexpected attack. Nevertheless, a majority of shootings occur in manners and circumstances in which the officer either does not have any other weapon available, or cannot get to it. The handgun must be relied upon, and must prevail. Given the idea that one or two torso hits can be reasonably expected in a handgun shooting incident, the ammunition used must maximize the likelihood of immediate incapacitation."

Twenty something years later, nothing really has changed.
 
TayNinh_66 said:
Tough crowd tonight. No, i am not a cop. nor an arm chair wannabe commando second guessing two cops who put it all on the line.
Click to expand...

How exactly did they "put it all on the line" again? Was it before or after they put their own safety above the people they are sworn to protect after they forced an otherwise retreating felon to draw on them in a crowded area and then follwed it up by firing and hitting the 8 bystanders? Or was it the part where they entered the situation with guns holstered and didn't bother calling it in before engaging?

Please by all means explain the immensely refined tactical plan they were using here that shows us how they are superior to my son who at least knows shooting 8 people to capture 1 is not a good SOP ratio.
 
Bill Nance said:
Funny, I went to the range today and FROM THE HOLSTER fired 170 rounds or so (all double taps or triples) and WAS REALLY PISSED that I only made marginal hits (D ring, still solid hits on any PD course) on SEVEN of those rounds at 25 feet.

I'm still trying to figure out how these asshats were on the street and shooting NINE and SEVEN rounds in RAPID FIRE (looks like as fast as they could pull the trigger) to start with, and why they MISSED more than 50% of those shots in an area that was SWARMING with bystanders at 10 feet?
Click to expand...
Have you ever shot under life-and-death stress? Just wondering.
 

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