Shooting reported outside Empire State Building

xtry51 said:
The CNN article is ****ing painful. I'm sure the sheep are eating it up too.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/24/justice/new-york-empire-state/index.html?hpt=hp_t1





****ing flower pots? Are we sure it wasn't pieces of sunshine, lollipops or rainbows?
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An earlier report claimed that at least one person said they were hit directly with a bullet.

After thinking about it a little more, I would not be at all surprised if some people did in fact get hit by just some shrapnel, get a minor cut, shit their pants, and call for a MEDIC! I could also see the police & paramedics strongly encouraged anyone with any sort of nick to take an ambulance ride just as a CYA.

Of course, unless there was over-penetration, if there was such shrapnel it still means that there were shots not hitting their target.
 
Boman said:
I also do not disagree that your target needs to be clear. 2 cops are walking a beat and a madman opens up on someone. Cops take a oath to serve and protect. I cannot imagine what must have been going through thier minds..guy has killed someone and is now pointing his weapon at them...What would you do? Open up even though you do not have a clear target picture? Standby and hope for one or move to get one? All of this happening in about 3-5 seconds.
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Yes, it's a complicated situation, but this is part of the job. And the guy didn't even have his gun out until the police approached him. IMHO, that is the end of the story.

My point is that the job of the police is to put their lives in harms way in order to protect us. When it has become okay for the police to shoot and/or kill several innocent bystanders in order to protect themselves from a bad guy, we are in a terribly dangerous place. Should the cops have taken a bullet? Well, yes, they should have. Am I being reasonable in this assessment? In hindsight, I think so. The police, by their actions, not only put civilians in harms way, but they shot civilians. The gunman was simply walking away from the scene when the police chose to engage him instead of following him to a less crowded area.

This isn't Call of Duty, it isn't Afghanistan, it's New York City, the bastion of civilization and epitome of modern life in the liberal world. If cops shooting civilians is okay in a city where fat people need laws to tell them how much soda they can drink, welcome to the police state.
 
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Sweeney said:
I believe I saw a different scenario, though, it was the same video. In the video I saw, the gunman was no threat to the pedestrians, the cops that initiated the encounter and escalated the situation to the point of dumping their magazines into a crowded area WHERE the threat to the public and that threat was fulfilled.
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Problem is, he did not throw the bag down and put his hands up. He pulled out the gun and turned toward the police.
 
my guess after watching the video is suicide by cop, he was walking in the street people around him, yet he didnt make any attempt to shoot them, he killed his target and then pointed at the police.
 
He'll probably strengthen the gun laws in New York.
Perhaps give the officers rubber bullets
Re-enforce his position on micro-stamping
Eliminate people from carrying bags on the street
Do away with parked cars in the city
Add camera's to officer's pistols
Have a town hall with the people hit
Eliminate giant sized drinks
 
so if three people got struck by whole bullets and the rest "fragments", does that mean they were shooting pavement and ricocheting up?
 
Despite the circumstances those officers are responsible for each of those bullets that they fired. NYPD has just proven that their officers are more of a menace to the people of NY than armed lunatics. Good job guys!
 
If they missed, the range was much too short, and they shouldn't have missed.

But, once cops graduate the NYPD academy, they really don't shoot all that much. My buddy was a street cop, detective and retired a sergeant, and he probably officially shot once or twice a year, which was all the department required.
 
mousegunfan said:
More like, translation: cover our ass, we (Bloomberg) must say he was trying to shoot.
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I agree that it makes it sound better in the press, but from the video I would consider it a valid threat. Dude turned around suddenly pointing a gun at me. As for the COP's missing.....having never been in such a situation I'm not going to play Monday morning QB on this one.
 
Fotoduck said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...8720e2-eedf-11e1-afd8-097e90f99d05_story.html
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Only part I found interesting:

Matthews had drawn attention this year by suing the New York Police Department, accusing his superiors of unfairly punishing him for not meeting arrest quotas. A judge threw out the complaint.
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Arrest quotas. Awesome. Is that anything like a mandatory number of Jews you must round up? And the complaint gets dismissed, so quotas as thereby encouraged and supported by law. Super dee dooper.

I'm reassessing my view of this. I think the only thing that went wrong was Bloomberg wasn't struck in the head by one of those stray bullets. If we could make that happen next time I'd support spray and pray.
 
xtry51 said:
Arrest quotas. Awesome. Is that anything like a mandatory number of Jews you must round up? And the complaint gets dismissed, so quotas as thereby encouraged and supported by law. Super dee dooper.
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This has been posted on here before but it worth sharing again http://http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/414/right-to-remain-silent

http://schoolcraftjustice.com/
Like many police officers, PO Schoolcraft joined the NYPD to help people and serve communities plagued by real crime; instead he was faced with enormous pressure to harass law abiding people in order to fudge statistics. Morally opposed to these policies, PO Schoolcraft refused to follow these unlawful orders and was met with retaliation from the highest levels of the NYPD. This ultimately culminated in an attempt to forcibly silence and discredit him; on October 31, 2009, several high ranking NYPD officials illegally entered PO Schoolcraft’s home, forcibly removed him in handcuffs, seized his personal effects, including evidence he had gathered documenting NYPD corruption, and had him admitted to Jamaica Hospital Center against his will, under the false pretense that he was “emotionally disturbed.”
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Seamsealer said:
Problem is, he did not throw the bag down and put his hands up. He pulled out the gun and turned toward the police.
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Which has f!ck-all to do with the fact that the police shot everyone in sight.

- - - Updated - - -

Mike S said:
[video]http://nyti.ms/R8O4UK[/video]
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I wonder if "squat down sideways and crab-walk backwards while firing one-handed" is going to to be featured in NYPD's police academy as an accepted means of engagement.
 
Funny, I went to the range today and FROM THE HOLSTER fired 170 rounds or so (all double taps or triples) and WAS REALLY PISSED that I only made marginal hits (D ring, still solid hits on any PD course) on SEVEN of those rounds at 25 feet.

I'm still trying to figure out how these asshats were on the street and shooting NINE and SEVEN rounds in RAPID FIRE (looks like as fast as they could pull the trigger) to start with, and why they MISSED more than 50% of those shots in an area that was SWARMING with bystanders at 10 feet?

But then I looked at NYPD shooting stats and saw that this wasn't anything new. In fact these idiots shot BETTER than most officer involved shootings for the NYPD.

I contrast this with ZERO shots missed by my local PD and Sheriff's departments in an unprecedented 7 officer involved shootings in 12 months in the last year.

These cops probably shot EXACTLY like they were trained. I don't fault the cops, I fault the NYPD and their ridiculously pitiful training techniques.

Funny, NYC has the money to send their asshat Mayor all to Hell and gone playing Sarah Brady anytime I buy a shotgun at a gun show, but can't afford training time for cops carrying guns in the most crowded city in the country.

And this gets third tier coverage on EVERY major news outlet, but the one guy shooting ONE GUY originally gets non-stop coverage EVERYWHERE.

Naw, no agenda there.
 
And yet homeowner victims, shop keepers and gun owners shoot criminals when confronted as we have all heard many times in the news and rarely are there the kinds of collateral damage you saw in this case. FYI, I did the similar thing yesterday myself, I shot instinctively at my range target 15' away two clips of ten from 2 different handguns.

While I wasn't shooting bulls eye, all the rounds were on paper and within the 6" target proximity. I just could not fathom being that close and missing a target that many times. Granted their are adrenaline issues in play but that's just too many missed for that kind of a hail of gunfire in a public area with what seems like little concern for the back drop.

These cops either don't practice their duties or don't appear to train effectively with there weapons which explains why when we hear about these things that often times the officer unloads full mag. I expect this from criminals doing a drive by but cops, (not so much)!
 

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