State suicide training

[Rob Boudrie]

I was invited by some MA agency (not sure of AG or MSP) to online Zooom based suicide prevention training targets are firearms instructors.

I am attending today since I expect to learn something, if only what the state is recommending instructors to for (or is it to?) the potentially suicidal.

 

[not new guy]

Are you 100% sure it's not training on how to encourage gun owners to kill themselves?

 

[M1911]

I was wondering why I need training on how to commit suicide.

My default response to any Massachusetts governmental body would be to tell them to go perform an anatomically impossible act.

In general, though, the idea that some training given to firearms instructors will reduce suicides is laughable.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

My default response to any Massachusetts governmental body would be to tell them to go perform an anatomically impossible act.

 

[GL2020]

Don't want to speak for him, but I seem to recall Jon Green from GOAL mentioning this in their podcast

 

[M1911]

I need to talk to that guy!

 

[KBCraig]

30 years of military and corrections made me pretty much an expert on recognizing suicide warning signs. Eight years as a combat medic including three years working in a secure psychiatric facility did the same for my oldest son.

Neither of us saw it coming when a younger son committed suicide in 2014.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I took the training on Saturday morning. Not much new ground covered. It is still (currently) only recommended.

They showed us the video that Jon Green is in and provided downloads, including slides and a FAQ handout.

Basically, find time in your already overloaded class to say "if you're having a hard time, seek help; if someone you know is having a hard time, offer it...here are some phone numbers/resources, and a couple options other than taking possession of someone's entire collection."

We're never going to change the world here. We might start to walk the talk, though.

 

[M1911]

I took the training on Saturday morning. Not much new ground covered. It is still (currently) only recommended.

They showed us the video that Jon Green is in and provided downloads, including slides and a FAQ handout.

Basically, find time in your already overloaded class to say "if you're having a hard time, seek help; if someone you know is having a hard time, offer it...here are some phone numbers/resources, and a couple options other than taking possession of someone's entire collection."

We're never going to change the world here. We might start to walk the talk, though.

While I don’t think this is a bad thing per se, I think that it is unlikely to have any significant impact, and I think that the might be more productively spent elsewhere.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

They did a better job than I expected, as they never suggested reporting someone to LE to have their guns seized. The recomendation was to try to get the guns stored with someone who has an LTC, or just an essential part as an option for storing with a non-LTC holder. They clarified that this would not be a transfer and no eFA10 would be required. The only detail they left out was that the lower or frame was also not a firearm under MA law

I was expecting a thinly veiled anti-gun diatribe, but that was not the case.

 

[June4th]

Headline: LTC Applicants Frustrated by Boston PD’s Repeated Delays Committed Suicide by Jumping Off Buildings Instead

 

[Mesatchornug]

While I don’t think this is a bad thing per se, I think that it is unlikely to have any significant impact, and I think that the might be more productively spent elsewhere.

To be clear, I 110% agree, and have told them as much several times. Simply reporting what they said.

 

[Masswhole]

I clicked hoping it was a DIY course and that Maura had registered.

 

[rep308]

That requirement is why I no longer teach classes.

 

[gerrycaruso]

No thanks. I'm pretty sure I'm smart enough to kill myself without any training.

 

[EMTDAD]

I taught a small private class on Sunday morning... just threw the video in at the end and told them to watch it while I was doing paperwork... Jon Green, Pierre Solomon, and some DPH woman going over some of the things you can do to prevent gun-inflicted suicide. It's really not bad and pretty well done... kudos to those guys..

kinda hits home a bit as my cousins kid took his life back in Jan via firearm.

 

[Mesatchornug]

That requirement is why I no longer teach classes.

what requirement?

 

[CrackPot]

I was invited by some MA agency (not sure of AG or MSP) to online Zooom based suicide prevention training targets are firearms instructors.

I am attending today since I expect to learn something, if only what the state is recommending instructors to for (or is it to?) the potentially suicidal.

If its anything like the sexual harassment training provided to senior management at my last company... Afterwards I knew exactly how to harass someone w/o crossing the bright line of illegal harassment.

 

[rep308]

what requirement?

I believe that a session on suicide prevention is now required in the ma pistol class, please correct me if I am wrong

 

[Cowgirlup]

30 years of military and corrections made me pretty much an expert on recognizing suicide warning signs. Eight years as a combat medic including three years working in a secure psychiatric facility did the same for my oldest son.

Neither of us saw it coming when a younger son committed suicide in 2014.

So sorry for your family.

If someone really wants to do it, they will and they are clever enough to not show the usual or even subtle signs.

Sadly, family and friends beat themselves up and wonder how they didn't know and agonize over what they missed and what they could have done to stop it.
That is the worst part.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I believe that a session on suicide prevention is now required in the ma pistol class, please correct me if I am wrong

It is not required

 

[rep308]

It is not required

Thank you, my mistake.

 

[Thunder Dump]

I believe that a session on suicide prevention is now required in the ma pistol class, please correct me if I am wrong

It is not required

I thought it was too. Just went through a MA/CT class (to get my CT non-res) and it was stated it is a required part of the curriculum now.

 

[Mesatchornug]

I thought it was too. Just went through a MA/CT class (to get my CT non-res) and it was stated it is a required part of the curriculum now.

In MA, it is proposed as part of 4420 (or whatever number it is now). It is required in UT and I wouldn't be surprised if it is in CT, too.

They informed us in the call that it is still only recommended. Heck, the "governors challenge" that initiated this material is driven by reducing veteran suicide.

 

[JDL]

I took this class a month ago. It is only suggested to take this training at this time. It seems they are gearing up to making this mandatory to be added as part of the firearms training program for the certificat to obtain an LTC once the new law passes. I am glad I took this. It may end up something we as instructors will need to keep our state certification to issue the LTC training certificate. It was not bad training and I will add this information to my next class even though it is not mandated and only suggested at this time.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

If its anything like the sexual harassment training provided to senior management at my last company... Afterwards I knew exactly how to harass someone w/o crossing the bright line of illegal harassment.

Kind of tough to pull off when the standard is "the person states they felt harrassed".

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I took this class a month ago. It is only suggested to take this training at this time. It seems they are gearing up to making this mandatory to be added as part of the firearms training program for the certificat to obtain an LTC once the new law passes. I am glad I took this. It may end up something we as instructors will need to keep our state certification to issue the LTC training certificate. It was not bad training and I will add this information to my next class even though it is not mandated and only suggested at this time.

Although there was no ass kicking, they were taking names. They asked everyone to make sure their Zoom screen name matched their real name, or send a messag ein Zoom Chat so they could get the attendance record correct.

The only thing I though was inaccurate was the assumption that licensing officials would understand the boundaries of something making an imminent threat, and that seeking help would not endanger one's LTC. They left out the part "Assuming you can afford competent legal counsel and get a reasonable judge" when explaining why simply seeking assistance for yourself was not enough to merit an LTC suspension or revocation.

 

[Cuz]

Rob, you're late to the party. I thought they did all these classes a couple of months ago. It's not "yet" a requirement, but I see no harm in mentioning it in a class, so I will from now on, and I will most likely give any students a copy of this flyer I found, or the FAQ Sheet. Then they can do what they want with it. I will not play the video, or spend more than a minute or two discussing it, unless the student(s) want to discuss it further.

It's a sensitive subject, and it affects people differently depending upon if they were close to anyone who committed suicide.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Rob, you're late to the party. I thought they did all these classes a couple of months ago.

They did - the earlier dates did not work for me.

 

[jkelly1229]

Not sure why they would put that onus on the instructor... maybe I'm wrong i thought suicide was more spontaneous than that 6-12 months to get a gun license in ma. And if op is a tactial trainer i also cant see that many people in the venn diagram who go to a class just to put a gun to their head.