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Question about non-LTC holders at home

D

dragonballzz

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Ive seen this scenario in the news quite a bit now. Kids or wife are home alone and a bad guy comes in. The victim go gets dad's firearm and saves their life.

Is it okay (legal) to let non-LTC holders know how or where to access the firearm? Even when they've been trained?

Is this a case of "... rather be judged by 12 than be carried by 6"?
 
What you read/hear about is happening in "Free America"!

Here in Commiechusetts, if ANYONE w/o a LTC/FID (for appropriate gun) is allowed access or gets a gun to defend themselves, both the gun owner and said unlicensed defender will face felony charges, lose all gun rights forever and likely be convicted by that jury of 12.

Sorry, that is just how it is in a Socialist State.
 
F'ing depressing. This state would rather send the Medical Examiner in to haul out our non-LTC holder family member in a body bag than to allow them to defend themselves in a life or death situation. Makes me sick. [puke]

3 years and counting until we leave this sorry excuse for a state.
 
I didnt realize that was the case in this sorry state. Once I receive my license I will need to get the wife into a training course if I can get her over her "guns make me nervous" stance
 
Having a second LTC holder could also possibly prevent the confiscation of all your guns if your ever have to use your gun defensively.

The most likely post defensive scenario involves the issuing authority revoking your LTC while they do an investigation. With no LTC holder in the house, your guns will need to be taken "for safe keeping". A wife with a LTC removes this justification.
 
mwalsh9152 said:
I didnt realize that was the case in this sorry state. Once I receive my license I will need to get the wife into a training course if I can get her over her "guns make me nervous" stance
Click to expand...

If nothing else, getting her trained and getting her LTC is a good idea so she knows how to handle guns safely and can do so legally if the need arises. That should also help alleviate the nervousness, as familiarity can help remove the fear of the unknown.
 
Also, start with something small like a 22 pistol, if you're close to metro Boston I will take oth of you to my club and let use try out my sr22
 
dcmdon said:
Having a second LTC holder could also possibly prevent the confiscation of all your guns if your ever have to use your gun defensively.

The most likely post defensive scenario involves the issuing authority revoking your LTC while they do an investigation. With no LTC holder in the house, your guns will need to be taken "for safe keeping". A wife with a LTC removes this justification.
Click to expand...

Sorry Don, this is NOT how it works in MA! Info confirmed both from MGL and a number of LEOs that I've consulted with. They clean out the house (of the shooter) and take ALL guns/ammo/mags. One is "evidence" (and thus must be kept by PD) and the others may end up in a Bonded Warehouse, never to be seen again. Doesn't matter who owned what or who else in the house has a permit that is still valid.
 
LenS said:
Sorry Don, this is NOT how it works in MA! Info confirmed both from MGL and a number of LEOs that I've consulted with. They clean out the house (of the shooter) and take ALL guns/ammo/mags. One is "evidence" (and thus must be kept by PD) and the others may end up in a Bonded Warehouse, never to be seen again. Doesn't matter who owned what or who else in the house has a permit that is still valid.
Click to expand...

Do they typically get their property back if they are not found criminally liable for the shooting? Or is that unlikely in the Commiewealth?
 
ProGun said:
Do they typically get their property back if they are not found criminally liable for the shooting? Or is that unlikely in the Commiewealth?
Click to expand...

Unlikely. Evidence may be returned, assuming that the PD decides to re-issue the LTC only. Anything else that got confiscated IF it goes to a Bonded Warehouse is out of the PD's hands and the fees are confiscatory (intentionally) so that the person couldn't afford to get them back (if they are even transferable back to the person - think AG Regs and EOPS List).
 
LenS said:
Unlikely. Evidence may be returned, assuming that the PD decides to re-issue the LTC only. Anything else that got confiscated IF it goes to a Bonded Warehouse is out of the PD's hands and the fees are confiscatory (intentionally) so that the person couldn't afford to get them back (if they are even transferable back to the person - think AG Regs and EOPS List).
Click to expand...

Beyond outrageous! A citizen's property is confiscated, they are not paid, and they don't get it back. Yeah, that sounds fair. God, the more I learn, the more this state sucks. If there aren't already, some lawsuits need to be filed.
 
LenS said:
Sorry Don, this is NOT how it works in MA! Info confirmed both from MGL and a number of LEOs that I've consulted with. They clean out the house (of the shooter) and take ALL guns/ammo/mags. One is "evidence" (and thus must be kept by PD) and the others may end up in a Bonded Warehouse, never to be seen again. Doesn't matter who owned what or who else in the house has a permit that is still valid.
Click to expand...

Even if it is a completely "clean" shoot? like a home invasion or something like that?

I was a fool for using rational thought to think my way around a pulled LTC.

Don

p.s. this is a solid argument for moving all my guns back to my residence in CT except for a couple of target pistols and my carry guns. Right?
 
Yes, Don even if a righteous shoot, all are investigated as homicides and everything is yanked until the investigation is over (months later at best).

I was shocked yesterday to learn of someone I know whose first Wife died suddenly (natural causes, she had serious medical problems) at home and since he found her, he was investigated for 2 months and not even allowed access to his own home for that long!! Welcome to MA!! [thinking]
 
At MFS the instructor went over a scenario which I believe he said could happen..I take the Wifes car to the range and I forget a few shells in the glove box ect..My unlicensed Wife is pulled over for speeding a few days later and the officer notices the shells and she is charged with possession without a license...Sounds a little far fetched but this is Mass and I could see it happening [frown]

Thankfully this will not be an issue for us as we both got approved
 
JerryT said:
At MFS the instructor went over a scenario which I believe he said could happen..I take the Wifes car to the range and I forget a few shells in the glove box ect..My unlicensed Wife is pulled over for speeding a few days later and the officer notices the shells and she is charged with possession without a license...Sounds a little far fetched but this is Mass and I could see it happening [frown]

Thankfully this will not be an issue for us as we both got approved
Click to expand...

Not far fetched at all. I know of a case (guy was a MAF'r . . . before forums) whose Daughter was threatened this way on a MV stop in MA. She really upset the cop when she produced an FID card.
 
dcmdon said:
Even if it is a completely "clean" shoot? like a home invasion or something like that?

I was a fool for using rational thought to think my way around a pulled LTC.

Don

p.s. this is a solid argument for moving all my guns back to my residence in CT except for a couple of target pistols and my carry guns. Right?
Click to expand...

Sure sounds like that would be the best move to me if what Len says is accurate! I'm not so sure that CT is the best safe haven these days though with how their laws have been going lately, though.
 
Terminator03 said:
Sure sounds like that would be the best move to me if what Len says is accurate! I'm not so sure that CT is the best safe haven these days though with how their laws have been going lately, though.
Click to expand...

CT is very safe. You don't need Government's permission to posses firearms, even machine guns. No license is required to own any firearms in CT. My wife, who does not yet have a CT pistol permit can own anything. She just can't carry a handgun or buy anything new. There are lots of people in CT who had a pistol permit, bought a handgun, then let the permit expire. They are in full compliance with all laws as long as they don't carry it.

Further, prosecutors and juries are much less inclined to go outside the law to prosecute/persecute law abiding gun owners. I have never heard of a clean defensive use of a firearm in CT that even resulted in the shooter being arrested. Its still that way.

In cases where a "risk warrant" is used to take guns in CT, the person can typically prevail in getting their firearms back. After getting well spanked in Doutel v Norwalk ( Connecticut Carry - Introduction to Norwalk v Doutel ) the state seems to have been more careful.

Doutel v Norwalk is another one that will make your blood boil. But its not nearly as bad as Jarvis v Village Gun.

Don

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/victim_to_muggers_say_hi_to_/id_38752

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/wooster_square_shooting_probed/

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/crime/store-owner-shoots-at-armed-robber#.UaODf2SKMt0

http://www.ctpost.com/policereports/article/Woman-fires-shot-at-intruder-3915552.php#ixzz28I0aT8JC

http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/crime/5-arrested-in-stamford-assault#.UaOEQmSKMt3

http://www.ctpost.com/policereports/article/Cops-Home-invasion-suspect-shot-by-homeowner-3728088.php

I could go on and on. But you get my point.
 
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dcmdon said:
CT is very safe. You don't need Government's permission to posses firearms, even machine guns. No license is required to own any firearms in CT. My wife, who does not yet have a CT pistol permit can own anything. She just can't carry a handgun or buy anything new. There are lots of people in CT who had a pistol permit, bought a handgun, then let the permit expire. They are in full compliance with all laws as long as they don't carry it.

Further, prosecutors and juries are much less inclined to go outside the law to prosecute/persecute law abiding gun owners. I have never heard of a clean defensive use of a firearm in CT that even resulted in the shooter being arrested. Its still that way.

In cases where a "risk warrant" is used to take guns in CT, the person can typically prevail in getting their firearms back. After getting well spanked in Doutel v Norwalk ( Connecticut Carry - Introduction to Norwalk v Doutel ) the state seems to have been more careful.

Doutel v Norwalk is another one that will make your blood boil. But its not nearly as bad as Jarvis v Village Gun.

Don

Muggers Meet Target's Sig Sauer P239 | New Haven Independent

Alleged Mugger Shot In Wooster Sq. | New Haven Independent

Store owner shoots at armed robber | WTNH.com Connecticut

Woman fires shot at intruder - Connecticut Post

5 arrested in Stamford assault | WTNH.com Connecticut

Cops: Homeowner shoots naked intruder - Connecticut Post

I could go on and on. But you get my point.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this info not only for my benefit, but for others not so well versed in how CT law works. I was basing my statement on the current bs laws regarding mag limits and AWB features.
 
LenS said:
Welcome to MA!! [thinking]
Click to expand...

I really want to thank you for all the info you have put out over the years. You have done a lot to cement my decision to move out of MA, I am sick even thinking about staying for the next few months until I sell my house.
 
Terminator03 said:
Thanks for posting this info not only for my benefit, but for others not so well versed in how CT law works. I was basing my statement on the current bs laws regarding mag limits and AWB features.
Click to expand...

CT is still a very carry friendly state.

Its effectively shall issue.
Its Open Carry - not that I do it. But if I accidentally print, I don't have anything to worry about.

http://ctcarry.com/Document/Download/a034b530-1221-425d-a99f-53af710ff219

Even with the new law, you are only to put 10 rounds in your high cap mags (ha). But your first offense if you are caught with more than 10 rounds is only a non-criminal infraction.
So my attitude is that if you are going to violate that part of the law. Make it count. If you are going to Open Carry, where there is a chance an officer will check your gun, do it with 10 rounds. The second offense is a felony so you only get one "freebee".

But if you are going to carry concealed. You might as well load up.

Don
 
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mlaboss said:
If nothing else, getting her trained and getting her LTC is a good idea so she knows how to handle guns safely and can do so legally if the need arises. That should also help alleviate the nervousness, as familiarity can help remove the fear of the unknown.
Click to expand...

gzt said:
send her for the class now. dont wait.
Click to expand...
I fully intended to get her comfortable around and shooting guns even before this thread. I didnt realize that they need for a LTC even in the home. I can say that she will NEVER carry with 100% confidence in that statement, but I really want her comfortable grabbing one of my guns if the shtf and I'm not around.
 
mwalsh9152 said:
I fully intended to get her comfortable around and shooting guns even before this thread. I didnt realize that they need for a LTC even in the home. I can say that she will NEVER carry with 100% confidence in that statement, but I really want her comfortable grabbing one of my guns if the shtf and I'm not around.
Click to expand...

Beg her to get an LTC-A even if she plans never to touch a gun in her life - it's a cheap form of legal insurance FOR HER if she ever ends up in control of weapons due to circumstances outside of her control.

And take yourself and her to LenS's class - see my sig. And no, I am not getting anything from Len for pushing his class - just a happy customer who took his class and was shocked at how easily I could have lost my rights due to my less than good understanding of the convoluted MA gun laws.
 
LenS said:
Sorry Don, this is NOT how it works in MA! Info confirmed both from MGL and a number of LEOs that I've consulted with. They clean out the house (of the shooter) and take ALL guns/ammo/mags. One is "evidence" (and thus must be kept by PD) and the others may end up in a Bonded Warehouse, never to be seen again. Doesn't matter who owned what or who else in the house has a permit that is still valid.
Click to expand...

That is unbelievable. And I thought I was going to get sick from eating too many hot dogs today. Reading that makes me want to [puke2]
 
It seems that this state (MA) pretends that we have all these rights up until the very moment we really need them. Then the only right we have is to remain silent. Just sicking
 

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