Question about non-LTC holders at home

Holy freaking hell - I am completely shocked after reading this thread. I don't know why - I guess I should have known better. But seriously if I defend myself righteously with my firearm they will take all my firearms while they investigate me???(leaving me defenseless to further attacks and they very well might be forthcoming from angry family/friends of the bad guy) And I guess the kicker was that you won't even get them back!?!? I am withholding the expletive laden tirade that is flowing through my brain right now. I HATE MASSACHUSETTS - this place is retarded.

This got me thinking might as well defend yourself with a knife or fist instead, holy ****...
 
I've always told my students that everyone in a household should be licensed just to remove any question as to who has possession, control or access. That said, it is my opinion that an unlicensed person using a firearm for justifiably self defense would not get charged. My opinion is worth what you've just paid for it. However that state has gone on record (Hightower v. Boston) as saying that you not even need a license to carry a gun as long as you have an actual need for self-defense.

Moreover, if your guns are confiscated, having a license family member or member of your household puts you in a much better position in terms of asserting your rights because someone else is being denied a fundamental right. There's much more to work with in these cases because the state has a harder time justifying disarming an uninvolved party.

At MFS the instructor went over a scenario which I believe he said could happen..I take the Wifes car to the range and I forget a few shells in the glove box ect..My unlicensed Wife is pulled over for speeding a few days later and the officer notices the shells and she is charged with possession without a license...Sounds a little far fetched but this is Mass and I could see it happening [frown]

Thankfully this will not be an issue for us as we both got approved
This is exactly what I tell my students and the reason one Comm2A board members required his daughters to get their FIDs before they could try out their driver's licenses in his car
 
Len - Please confirm this. But based on my continued reading of the laws and your posts here, it seems that whether something like this turns into a nightmare or not is largely dependent on the inclinations of your local police chief.

He's the one who determines if you are given the chance to transfer them to another person.
He's the one who determines if your firearms, if taken, are kept at the local PD (for free) or transferred to a bonded warehouse.

Is that right?

Don
 
Don, yes in all cases you mentioned.

"Evidence" of a crime must be maintained by the PD, everything else they can ship off to a Bonded Warehouse "if they want to do so".
 
Len - Please confirm this. But based on my continued reading of the laws and your posts here, it seems that whether something like this turns into a nightmare or not is largely dependent on the inclinations of your local police chief.

He's the one who determines if you are given the chance to transfer them to another person.
He's the one who determines if your firearms, if taken, are kept at the local PD (for free) or transferred to a bonded warehouse.

Is that right?

Don

Correct, except in the case of a 209A based confiscation, the law required that the PD take the guns immediately and thereafter may transfer them only to an FFL or a bonded warehouse.
 
I fully intended to get her comfortable around and shooting guns even before this thread. I didnt realize that they need for a LTC even in the home. I can say that she will NEVER carry with 100% confidence in that statement, but I really want her comfortable grabbing one of my guns if the shtf and I'm not around.

OP -- you might also want to consider one of the many Women On Target events. They are very non-threatening and welcome all women, regardless of experience.
 
lady atilla originally finally decided to get licensed for this very reason. we're stuck in this socialist paradise where there could be legal issues potentially for both of us if she had to use one of my firearms to defend herself and even though i told her i'd have her back and sell all my worldly possessions because they are just things--the state has and will always have deeper pockets than me.

aside from that she's listed as a trustee on my NFA trust so given that she will be "allowed" access to the NFA items in the trust without me having to be present it will be best that once that trust is full of NFA items for her to be legally able to fondle them in MA since that's where they'll live.
 
But again. If they give you the option to transfer them to a FFL, the outcome will probably be much better.

Don

Problem is that the PD (in most cases) does what the PD wants to do, without consulting the victim of confiscation. Both Rob and I know of numerous cases where PDs basically refuse to comply with MGL about handing over everything to any designated person with a proper license within 10 days upon written request, etc.

- - - Updated - - -

And you would still be investigated and lose your guns.

True!
 
yep, a very good reason for the wife and kids to at least have FID cards.

- - - Updated - - -

yep, a very good reason for the wife and kids to at least have FID cards.
 
It is shameful that this question even has to be asked. The state of MA restricting anyone the right to proctect themselves (without being arrested) is just so very wrong. What a world we live in... [sad2]

it's for the children. every ten seconds fifteen thousand children are killed by gun violence.
 
it's for the children. every ten seconds fifteen thousand children are killed by gun violence.

...and if we save ONE of them and only fourteen thousand nine hundred ninety nine children are killed by gun violence every ten seconds, confiscating every gun in america would have been worth it.
 
Even that won't save you. If the guns have FA-10's associated with them and are on the list of guns you own, you'll be required to divulge the location of the firearms in Conn and the Conn cops will go there and confiscate them.

I'm in a pickle should something happen and they want to confiscate my firearms. I have sold several rifles that have FA-10's showing me as the owner but were sold to persons out of state. All I have is a hand written BOS with their signature to prove the sale. You think they are going to buy that or do you think they are going to tear my house apart looking for those rifles?
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a FA-10? After I got my FID, I bought my rifles and shotguns in NH to save on the sales tax and each time I had to fill out a yellowish form that had Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms logo on it. The dealer had to call the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in order to confirm the data. Then I handed the dealer the payment in cash and walked out of the store. Was that the FA-10 form? Dealer never called it that. Just said to fill it out and then he had to make a quick phone call verify it. The money that I saved on the MA sales tax was used to buy ammo and a new cleaning kit. I am not wealthy and always try to get the most value for the dollar.
 
Pardon my ignorance, but what exactly is a FA-10? After I got my FID, I bought my rifles and shotguns in NH to save on the sales tax and each time I had to fill out a yellowish form that had Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms logo on it. The dealer had to call the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms in order to confirm the data. Then I handed the dealer the payment in cash and walked out of the store. Was that the FA-10 form? Dealer never called it that. Just said to fill it out and then he had to make a quick phone call verify it. The money that I saved on the MA sales tax was used to buy ammo and a new cleaning kit. I am not wealthy and always try to get the most value for the dollar.

From MGLs.

C. 140 § 128B Purchases Made Outside of the Commonwealth (or Outside of §128A)

Any resident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle or shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than from a licensee under section one hundred and twenty-two or a person authorized to sell firearms under section one hundred and twenty-eight A, and any nonresident of the commonwealth who purchases or obtains a firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun from any source within or without the commonwealth, other than such a licensee or person, and receives such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, within the commonwealth shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee, together with a complete description of the firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, including the caliber, make and serial number.

Whoever violates any provision of this section shall for the first offense be punished by a fine of not less than $500 nor more than $1,000 and for any subsequent offense by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than ten years.

They are firearms transfer/acquisition forms that you used to be able to obtain from any local PD in MA and were obligated to file for each gun bought in NH and brought into MA within 7 days of bringing the gun across the state line. Each gun you didn't register is a separate violation as you can see above.
 
From MGLs.



They are firearms transfer/acquisition forms that you used to be able to obtain from any local PD in MA and were obligated to file for each gun bought in NH and brought into MA within 7 days of bringing the gun across the state line. Each gun you didn't register is a separate violation as you can see above.
Seven days? That puts me behind schedule by more than seven years! Why didn't the dealer mention this? After he took my cash, he shook my hand and wished me well, telling me that if I had any problems to please contact him right away. Never mentioned anything else.
 
Seven days? That puts me behind schedule by more than seven years! Why didn't the dealer mention this? After he took my cash, he shook my hand and wished me well, telling me that if I had any problems to please contact him right away. Never mentioned anything else.

Why should the NH dealer tell you this?

It is a MA law and you bought from a NH dealer. It isn't his responsibility to know MA laws, but it is your responsibility to be knowledgeable about what you can buy and what you can/must do to be in compliance with MA laws (assuming you bring the gun back to MA).

When you buy in MA, the MA dealer is obligated to do this paperwork. When you buy privately in MA it is the seller's responsibility to do an FA-10 form with the new owner. When you buy (long guns only) out of state it is YOUR responsibility to do that form as "registration" when you return to MA. We have a MA Gun Law sub-forum here with numerous Stickies that you should read and educate yourself on MA gun law before you get jammed up legally.
 
Why should the NH dealer tell you this?

It is a MA law and you bought from a NH dealer. It isn't his responsibility to know MA laws, but it is your responsibility to be knowledgeable about what you can buy and what you can/must do to be in compliance with MA laws (assuming you bring the gun back to MA).

When you buy in MA, the MA dealer is obligated to do this paperwork. When you buy privately in MA it is the seller's responsibility to do an FA-10 form with the new owner. When you buy (long guns only) out of state it is YOUR responsibility to do that form as "registration" when you return to MA. We have a MA Gun Law sub-forum here with numerous Stickies that you should read and educate yourself on MA gun law before you get jammed up legally.
Thanks so much for the "heads-up". Looks like the registration date has passed, so I will just have to make sure I stay under the proverbial radar on this now. Other people have posted that the only reason for this FA-10 is to aid in police confiscation, which obviously is not a good thing in this rabidly anti-gun state. What the MA government doesn't know that I have in my small arms locker might not be a bad thing. I noticed many MA residents (MA plates on their vehicles) buying rifles and shotguns in NH and ME. Wonder how many know about the FA-10 rule? How many have actually been arrested for not being in compliance with it? You seem to know quite a bit about the MA law, so I hope you do not mind my asking. Never dealt with this before. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Tom
 
Thanks so much for the "heads-up". Looks like the registration date has passed, so I will just have to make sure I stay under the proverbial radar on this now. Other people have posted that the only reason for this FA-10 is to aid in police confiscation, which obviously is not a good thing in this rabidly anti-gun state. What the MA government doesn't know that I have in my small arms locker might not be a bad thing. I noticed many MA residents (MA plates on their vehicles) buying rifles and shotguns in NH and ME. Wonder how many know about the FA-10 rule? How many have actually been arrested for not being in compliance with it? You seem to know quite a bit about the MA law, so I hope you do not mind my asking. Never dealt with this before. Any info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance. Tom

The registration date is 7 days from when you bring the gun to MA, not 7 days from the purchase date.
 
No one will never know how many have been arrested/prosecuted/convicted. However anyone who is will become a prohibited person for life across the USA if it is a second or subsequent offense. Most cases are plea-bargained away and I'd guess (that's all we can do) that they will also lose any ability to get a LTC for life under suitability as a minimum.

Is the risk worth it (also AG's office and many LEOs read this forum), that is up to each person to decide.

Yes, I do know a few things about MA gun laws (see below).
 
The registration date is 7 days from when you bring the gun to MA, not 7 days from the purchase date.
Well, like I told the other gentleman, LenS, it has been years, not days. What about this confiscation matter? Do police actually use the FA-10 data to aid in confiscation? My dad was a WWII veteran. All Germans had to register their guns. After the shooting ended, Allied forces went house to house with this data to confiscate civilian-owned firearms. Castro did the same thing, using Batista's gun registration files. I do not feel comfortable registering guns in MA with this FA-10 if the only reason for its use is to aid in confiscation. Besides, it is too late for me to do so anyways. If I did the FA-10 route now, I would be admitting wrongdoing, since I am years too late, legally. Maybe better off keeping quiet about it. The less Big Brother knows, the better, right?
 
Then don't post about it.

Mass laws are confusing in the extreme. there are many guns that are not "on paper", and are legal, based on the way that they entered the state; what you describe is not one of the ways.

If you have a legal question, I'd talk to a REAL ( not interweb) lawyer. there are some listed on the board.
 
When a Domestic Violence Restraining Order is issued, yes they use the list for confiscation. But if you have a permit (and they do know that) and you claim to have no guns, they aren't likely to believe you anyway. If they can convince a judge to issue a search warrant they will search your house/place of work/car/etc. for them. If they feel that you may have hidden them in walls, they may breakdown walls to find them too . . . it's not impossible.

Also if a LTC/FID is revoked/suspended for any reason, see above. Additionally failure to turn everything over immediately is a felony in itself, under MGL C. 269 S. 10. And yes, they have prosecuted for this, successfully.
 
Well, like I told the other gentleman, LenS, it has been years, not days. What about this confiscation matter? Do police actually use the FA-10 data to aid in confiscation? My dad was a WWII veteran. All Germans had to register their guns. After the shooting ended, Allied forces went house to house with this data to confiscate civilian-owned firearms. Castro did the same thing, using Batista's gun registration files. I do not feel comfortable registering guns in MA with this FA-10 if the only reason for its use is to aid in confiscation. Besides, it is too late for me to do so anyways. If I did the FA-10 route now, I would be admitting wrongdoing, since I am years too late, legally. Maybe better off keeping quiet about it. The less Big Brother knows, the better, right?

No matter how much one disagrees with the current legislation, one would be ill advised to break the law. Good luck in extracting yourself from the pickle you are in. You probably want to get some advice from a lawyer specializing in firearms cases.

This thread might help.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...husetts-lawyers-specializing-firearm-law.html
 
When a Domestic Violence Restraining Order is issued, yes they use the list for confiscation. But if you have a permit (and they do know that) and you claim to have no guns, they aren't likely to believe you anyway. If they can convince a judge to issue a search warrant they will search your house/place of work/car/etc. for them. If they feel that you may have hidden them in walls, they may breakdown walls to find them too . . . it's not impossible.

Also if a LTC/FID is revoked/suspended for any reason, see above. Additionally failure to turn everything over immediately is a felony in itself, under MGL C. 269 S. 10. And yes, they have prosecuted for this, successfully.
Actually, when I got my FID, it was not for a firearm at all. I had a Daisy 880 air rifle that I bought in NH and found out through a friend that I needed a FID card for it. So I got the FID. Also, I am an avid mountain bike rider. When I was living in Lawrence, I often got chased by dogs. I found out that I needed the FID to buy a small container of CN/CS tear gas. The FID was only a couple of bucks, so I went ahead with it to stay legal. Then the FID went up in price, but by now I also owned a few rifles and shotguns. Dealers in NH told me that I was good to go and were happy to make the sale, telling me that I was completely legal and inviting me back to the store if I needed anything else. I do not know anything about domestic restraining orders. My life is a quiet one. I am early rise (fishing and hunting, naturally!) and early to bed. Not a party animal by any means. Never had any problems with the cops. One traffic ticket (that I fought successfully) about thirty years ago. That's about it. Not bad for a 52 year old guy. I realized things have changed, but did not realize that I was so far behind the times, legally. Nobody even told me that my FID was not valid anymore. A dealer in NH had to do that. Not even the courtesy from the police that the original FID which supposedly good for life had expired. Nice, eh? My new FID cost a C-note! Talk about inflation!
 
Last edited:
Well, like I told the other gentleman, LenS, it has been years, not days.

Perhaps Len could answer this one.

If the offense if "failure to file an FA10 within 7 days", would a statute of limitations come into play as the offense is not an ongoing one of "possession of an unregistered gun"?
 
No one will never know how many have been arrested/prosecuted/convicted. However anyone who is will become a prohibited person for life across the USA if it is a second or subsequent offense. Most cases are plea-bargained away and I'd guess (that's all we can do) that they will also lose any ability to get a LTC for life under suitability as a minimum.

Is the risk worth it (also AG's office and many LEOs read this forum), that is up to each person to decide.

Yes, I do know a few things about MA gun laws (see below).
Are you a paralegal? You sure as hell seem to know what you are talking about! I know a few paralegals and they are damned good. Just don't have that JD hanging on the wall.
 
I didnt realize that was the case in this sorry state. Once I receive my license I will need to get the wife into a training course if I can get her over her "guns make me nervous" stance

Lucky you. I've got a 12 yo who can shoot both .22 pistol and rifle, but can not have access to my guns.
 
Back
Top Bottom