NH- SB88 Veto over ride vote Sept 7.

"Governor Lynch and law officials believe its passage would greatly increase the potential for deadly incidents in public places while also making it harder to bring charges against criminals".

There's just too much "ammo" here (pardon the pun). For starters, why don't we at least enforce the laws already in place concerning criminals owning guns? And two, what criminals will care what the laws are? Guvna Lynch is a spineless person with a yellow stripe a mile wide down the entire length of his back.

Emails outbound to my Reps...
 
"The current law governing the use of deadly force in self-defense establishes a careful balance between the right to use deadly force in self-defense on the one side, and the sanctity of human life and the safety of innocent members of the public, on the other," wrote the New Hampshire Association of Chiefs of Police and the New Hampshire Sheriffs Association. "SB 88 would dramatically alter that balance and increase the potential for deadly encounters erupting in public places."
Click to expand...

What a bunch of f**king pansies. No, nobody gives a s**t if a crime victim gets killed or injured, but heaven forbid someone shoots back. [rolleyes]

There is no "sanctity of human life" for violent criminals. All that s**t goes right out the window when they attack someone unprovoked.

-Mike
 
The linked article in the OP is a bit long, so I’ll summarize for those who don't have time to read it all.

"This bill empowers gangs and criminals, which will lead to an increase in violence," Gov. John Lynch said, Tuesday.
Click to expand...

...but he provides zero supporting evidence to support that assertion.

Lynch continues,

“This legislation would permit the use of deadly force anywhere a person has a right to be, even if the person could easily remove himself or herself from an encounter without exposing himself or herself, or anyone else, to danger."
Click to expand...

Exactly, and that’s the way it should be because only the law-abiding citizen who’s being threatened with death is qualified to make that split-second self-defense decision. You don’t get to look at a written account of the attack later in your air-conditioned office and decide that I could have run away without getting shot in the back.

Attorney General Michael A. Delaney is siding with Governor Lynch. He said Florida averaged 34 justifiable homicides from 2000-2005; however, after the Sunshine State passed a similar law in 2005, the rate tripled from 2005-2009.
Click to expand...

And that’s an argument against the law? 68 additional violent criminals were taken off the street permanently—at no cost to the state—and the law-abiding crime victims are presumably still alive, but he thinks that’s a bad thing!

House Speaker Pro Tempore Gene Chandler (R-Bartlett) makes an interesting point:

“The governor’s lobbying tour against crime is especially disingenuous since he championed SB 500 last year, which allowed the release of lots of convicted sex offenders and violent criminals onto the streets of New Hampshire.”
Click to expand...

What I believe is the most compelling argument in the entire article comes from Rep. Jennifer Coffey (R-Andover):

“The citizens of New Hampshire deserve the same rights that the governor, Manchester police chief David Mara, and Hampton police chief James Sullivan are afforded," said Coffey. "Both the police chiefs travel with loaded guns and the governor with a personal bodyguard. Common sense indicates they would use those tools to protect themselves in the event their lives were threatened. Self-defense is an unalienable right for all people, not just high elected officials and law enforcement. Granite Staters’ lives are equally as valuable and precious as the governor’s. Self-defense is a basic human right.”
Click to expand...

Let’s all remember who needs to be out of a job at the end of the next election!
 
JWPaolilliJr said:
Maybe it is time that we don't support them or thier depts. Then tell the officers and Deputies why.
I bet a lot of the depts. use club ranges to train and qualify? Well if the clubs have any "Balls" they will tell the depts sorry no longer welcome here and this is why.
They will get the message real fast. The next step at every election or town meeting vote "no" on all police budgets.
They don't make the law, they answer to us.
Click to expand...

This is how its done folks ! [thumbsup]
 
Senator Ray White, District 9, wrote back that he will vote to override the veto and pass SB88. Remember him next election.
 
SB88 override

As far as I know, we have the votes in both houses. Please let me know if you hear otherwise.
I will be supporting SB88
Rep. Hoell
 
Call the NH Senate Majority Leader (Bradley) now (603)271-8472

All, I'm beginning to doubt my initial sense that this will pass in the Senate. The Senate Majority leader is considering a run for Governor and this bill may be killed to make that run easier for him. I recommend calling his office and making sure he keeps word to the Gun owners.

The bill passed out of the Senate 17-7 the first time:
http://gencourt.state.nh.us/bill_st...1&txtbillnumber=sb88&ddlsponsors=&q=1&lsr=341

so we may lose those two again (Carson, Odell) and it only takes an additional 2 others to vote Nay or two absences and the override fails. In looking at the list, there are at least 4 that could be pushed to vote to sustain veto.
districts:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/Senate/members/WebPages/District03.aspx
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/Senate/members/webpages/district13.aspx
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/Senate/members/webpages/district16.aspx
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/Senate/members/webpages/district24.aspx

Something is starting to look fishy. The number of press conferences etc. has the orchestrated feel that this is providing cover for these guys to do the wrong thing.

Rule 1 in politics: The first goal of a elected official is to get back in office, (in this case, especially if the office has a $100K salary increase from your current $100/year)

-Design
 
JWPaolilliJr said:
I have presented the idea about closing the access to ranges to the police depts, Well there is more to that than you might see on the surface.

The vast majority of police agencies do not have their own ranges. So what they do is take advantage of the good graces of the local gun club, or use a nieghboring PD's range.
The next thing they end up doing is going to a state or federal facility(in Mass. Devens, or Camp Edwards).

So if a "Red Town" uses your range, it is time to give them "Bums Rush" and tell them why,or Make it very expensive for them, Liabilty waiver contract, (most cops can't shoot worth shit and have more range [STRIKE=undefined]AD's[/STRIKE] ND's than civilains) Make them have an Ambulance "On Scene" during all firing and training, Require them to have club member present during all training and firing(club detail man).
OR
They can go to Devens pay the daily fee, plus a fee for each officer. Range time at Devens last I knew was scheduled out over six months in advance.

So you can see the delema the police depts would be dealing with. We can make it as hard as they do. We have the resources that "They Need". It is not a oneway street.
The Police Depts will realize how good they had it when the clubs "were" good nieghbors.

The rest is up to you.
Click to expand...


Most clubs don't have the balls to do this, although they should. Mostly for reasons OTHER than retribution (although I'm all in favor of that too for "red or black towns").

My first club (quit there in 2000 for much greener pastures at BR&P) allowed a lot of local PDs to use the range all for free. I served on the BOD of that club for 14 years and attended almost every meeting (BOD and member) so I was privy to a lot of what went on. I was also a member of a PD (red town) that used said range for free for most of those years. Net results to club:

- Officers in a neighboring town (which is posted no shooting in the town) would TELL people that they saw shooting in their town to go over to xxxx gun club to shoot. So we'd intercept numerous trespassers with the excuse that yyyy PD (a black town) told us to come here to shoot!

- The outdoor range prohibited all CF rifle as there were houses on one side of the backstop (literally) and many houses behind the backstop all across the range. Meanwhile one off-duty PO (not a member of the club) decided to sight in his deer rifle one day. When a member told him that he couldn't do that, it was unsafe, he threatened said member and the club due to his being a PO in the same town. The BOD decided NOT to do anything about it for fear of retribution.

- Some years later, a skip shot from ANOTHER club (person/gun found and bullet matched) hit a young lady in the arm outside a retail establishment (it was a spent bullet that hit her, not sure if it even broke the skin). Police chief (at that time) ordered BOTH clubs shut down. Uninvolved club (that I belonged to) had the outdoor range shut down for ~18 months, cost the club $14K to install baffles before the Selectmen would relent and let us re-open. We hired Atty Ed George to represent us, I attended one of those Selectmen's meetings and we accomplished nothing. As far as I'm concerned, the only good that came from Ed George's representation was implementing his recommendation that ANY outside group using the range provide the club with a signed letter of indemnity for any harm/damages that occur due to their use AND provide the club with proof of $1Million coverage in case of any such damages. The town went apoplectic, refusing to sign the waiver or provide proof of insurance, so they were shut-off and had to travel to a distant town (~25 miles each way) to qualify. As a Reserve PO, we weren't paid for this but the FT POs all got mileage and OT to do so, so it cost the town a pretty penny. Years after I left the club, they decided to allow the local PD to use the range again and now they shoot M4s at close distance to the backstop, well beyond the baffles. I'm just waiting to read about the first incident and another shut-down of that club. [thinking]

- Meanwhile when I joined BR&P the middle range (outdoors) was dedicated STRICTLY for police training use and members could not use it at all. Renovations changed that to a Bullseye range of 25 and 50 yards (pistol and .22RF rifle only). They still allow some PDs to use the other ranges for qualification, but have been refusing any new agency requests to cut back on their use and club liability.

FIFY, They aren't AD's . . . they are ND's! I agree, too many are careless and poor shots as they have no interest and do the bare minimum to qualify (which describes NO LEOs that participate here, these folks are "shooters" who take an interest and practice).
 
JWPaolilliJr said:
I have presented the idea about closing the access to ranges to the police depts, ...

The vast majority of police agencies do not have thier own ranges. So what they do is take advantage of the good graces of the local gun club,...

So if a "Red Town" uses your range, it is time to give them "Bums Rush" and tell them why,or Make it very expensive for them,...

... Require them to have club member present during all training and firing(club detail man).
OR
...

So you can see the delema the police depts would be dealing with. We can make it as hard as they do. We have the resources that "They Need". It is not a oneway street.
The Police Depts will realize how good they had it when the clubs "were" good nieghbors.

The rest is up to you.
Click to expand...

Great ideas. Especially like the one about someone from the club "doing detail". $50 an hour about covers it, no?

Need to centrally coordinate this, so they don't just go somewhere else nearby, defeating the purpose. This needs to be a concerted, coordinated, group effort.
 
Time to double down and call the senate again.

Earlier yesterday, I mentioned something seemed fishy... Now, I'm sure that something is fishy, I just do not know all of the details...

There is going to be a press conference by the Governor on Tuesday at 11am and there is a last minute "response"press conference being organized for 1pm. Something seems too orchestrated to me.

I'm beginning to wonder if the Senate will cave and blame us for not showing up in huge numbers for the 2nd press conference.

All of us work for a living. Trying to get 100 gun owners to show up with less then 24 hours notice, the day after labor day seems insane.

... I'm beginning to suspect this is part of the plan in case this bill dies. Now they have a convenient excuse for not passing the bill. Don't let them blame the failure of passage of this legislation on us. The Senate needs to pass this bill regardless of what happens tomorrow at the press conference and quit caving to Governor Lynch.

Does the Governor take his Saturdays and go shooting with his kids? Does he go to the gun shows that are every several months? Does he spend hard earned money on ammo?

Instead of taking precious time off of work and showing up, make two phone calls: Call your Senator: numbers below, and then call the office of the Majority leader: 603-271-2106

I know the Senate likes the comfort of us trudging up to the State house to help them with a press conference, but remember, they work for us and we have worked to get them into office and we want them to support the rights outlined in the NH Constitution.

Here is the type of language that has been coming in the email: "OK, you bitch about legislators not working for Gun groups all the time, so now that they have a Bill that Lynch has vetoed, its time for you to help turn out pro 2nd members on Tuesday. - Or you will lose the veto override... No Lie." I received this email from someone in the Senate with less then 24 hours before the press conference.

So it's our fault that the Governor is holding a press conference tomorrow, and it is our fault if insufficient gun owners, ones who work for a living, fail to show up with less then 24 hours notice???? [NO WAY is it our fault] I said something was fishy. We can call in that amount of time, but for a number of us, showing up last minute is impossible. Therefore, Let's keep their phones busy.

There are some great Senators up there, and this email was from one of the better ones. but why so little notice about this planned press conference? As I said, something seems fishy. And this email is from one of the most trustworthy ones.

Barnes, Jr., John S 603-271-6931
Boutin, David R 603-271-2709
Bradley, Jeb 603-271-2106
Bragdon, Peter 603-271-8472
Carson, Sharon M 603-271-2674
D'Allesandro, Lou 603-271-2600
De Blois, Tom H 603-271-7803
Forrester, Jeanie L 603-271-2104
Forsythe, James R 603-271-3096
Gallus, John T 603-271-3077
Groen, Fenton L 603-271-3045
Houde, Matthew S 603-271-2118
Kelly, Molly M 603-271-2166
Lambert, Gary E 603-271-2735
Larsen, Sylvia B 603-271-2675
Luther, Jim 603-271-2246
Merrill, Amanda A 603-271-8567
Morse, Chuck W 603-271-4980
Odell, Bob 603-271-6733
Prescott, Russell E 603-271-3074
Rausch, Jim B 603-271-8630
Sanborn, Andy 603-271-3073
Stiles, Nancy F 603-271-6933
White, Raymond M 603-271-3569
-Rep. Hoell
 
I emailed my rep. (Mr. Prescott) right after lynch vetoed SB88. He stated in his response that he will be voting to override the veto. We will see if he is reelect-able based if he was honest.
 
Republicans, activists urge override of deadly force veto

By Matthew Spolar / Monitor staff
September 6, 2011
Excerpt: "Pro-gun activists and Republican legislators held a press conference this afternoon, urging the Senate to override Gov. John Lynch's veto of a bill that allows citizens greater authority to use deadly force.

The Democratic governor has visited local communities in recent weeks, backed by the top law enforcement officials in the state, to argue that Senate Bill 88 will lead to more gang violence and avoidable homicides. The bill allows citizens to use deadly force in self-defense wherever they "have a right to be" without attempting to retreat from the situation, a provision that currently applies only to situations occurring in the victim's home or surrounding area.
About 50 people gathered in the Legislative Office Building in support of the override, which the Senate will take up tomorrow before the House acts next week. Speakers framed the bill as siding with law-abiding citizens over criminals..."
 
Any update on this? Not sure when they were supposed to vote, but I cant find anything newer than about 5 days ago.
 
I saw a press release from the House speakers office that the Senate passed this measure today. The press release is not yet in the public domain.
 
Still needs the override vote in the House, but the Senate vote was the touchy one. Well done NH senators!
 

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