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My very first negligent discharge
- Thread starter 45Badger
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AllaSnackbah
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Dryfire is immensely useful, my 15 year old just started on her HS high power rifle team, after her first practice i brought her home and put her on a dryfire regimen, 15 minutes a night every night of indexing the rifle, using the rear bag correctly, loading snapcaps, pulling trigger, and reloading while still on the gun.
The following week her score was improved by 100%.
One ND slamfire , was an AR15. I forgot my mags, thought i would be smart and drop a reload round through the ejection port and into the chamber. Sent the bolt into battery and the gun slamfired . Luckily i had the muzzle pointed downward and downrange. That situation was my wakeup call note to self, only operate a weapon AS INTENDED.
I’d call that an AD, not an ND.
And it is totally normal to single load an AR through the ejection port. Competition shooters do it all the time to load 80gr+ cartridges that are longer than magazine length during 600 yard slow fire stages.
I think your situation had more to do with your primer or possibly dirt or something on the end of the firing pin.
pastera
NES Member
Many striker fired handguns require you to release the striker, dry fire, in order to disassemble.
My M&P can lock the sear out but it's easier to clear and stick a finger in the mag well to activate the mag safety then dry fire.
fencer
NES Member
Never had a ND. The closest I have come was the first time I ever shot my S&W 29. Was at the range, and cocked the hammer back to fire single action. With the hammer back, it is the lightest trigger I have ever seen. I'd be surprised if it takes more than a pound to drop the hammer. Was pointed down range, but when it went off it put a 44mag into the dirt about 3 feet in front of me and I barely touched the trigger. Scared the shit out of me. Truly a "hair trigger"
Now, I warn everyone that shoots it and tell them if they drop my 29 I will beat them to death with it.
Now, I warn everyone that shoots it and tell them if they drop my 29 I will beat them to death with it.
hpm
NES Member
This is NES - you left out the most important part of that story. Was the wife hot?
Most of my discharges are negligent, and almost all of them premature.
Seriously though, it takes balls to post about it. Good on you.
Everybody makes mistakes. Acting like it is possible to be careful enough to avoid ever making one is what turns mistakes into tragedies. That is why "A gun is always loaded" and "keep it pointed in a safe direction" stuff exists. Getting flagged, or seeing some other transgression, by someone who clearly doesn't know better and has made an honest mistake, is an opportunity for education, both for them, and for you. We need to choke down that burningly overwhelming desire to destroy offenders.* It is our responsibility as a community to educate others.
*The first time. After that, it weapons free.
Seriously though, it takes balls to post about it. Good on you.
Everybody makes mistakes. Acting like it is possible to be careful enough to avoid ever making one is what turns mistakes into tragedies. That is why "A gun is always loaded" and "keep it pointed in a safe direction" stuff exists. Getting flagged, or seeing some other transgression, by someone who clearly doesn't know better and has made an honest mistake, is an opportunity for education, both for them, and for you. We need to choke down that burningly overwhelming desire to destroy offenders.* It is our responsibility as a community to educate others.
*The first time. After that, it weapons free.
Yes. But dry firing doesn’t require you to buy ammo.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
No. That's a collision.
At least at my Driver's Ed, and again at my Basic and Experienced Rider's Courses, we were told that most collisions are the result of a series of choices made by the driver - the same carelessness and ignorance we discuss in firearms safety classes. That journalists and the general public use the word "accident" to absolve themselves and others of responsibility, with both cars and guns, doesn't mean they're right. In the MSF courses, they borrow the term "Accident Chain" from aviation, to helpfully demonstrate that most aren't.
A tree falling on your car, a deer jumping in front of it, or a brake line failing due to unknown material defects are accidents - they're outside your control. They "happened." Most collisions aren't accidents. Heck, @Picton's example only counts from his perspective. Realistically, if someone else collides with your car it might be said that you had an accident while they crashed into you; you might equally say you were the victim of their negligence.
In this case, OP knows the correct way to take down his pistol: remove magazine, cycle slide, confirm chamber/mag well/breech face are clear, close slide, pull trigger [...] etc. Despite his knowledge, he neglected to follow the steps in the correct order, failed to confirm the gun was unloaded, then pulled the trigger - in a safe direction. His Accident Chain includes at least two specific behaviors that lead to the event.
Agreed. @45Badger, thanks for sharing your story; this is another thing aviators do to create a culture of safety. We all benefit from the honesty that you've demonstrated here.
So far I count myself fortunate; the closest I've been to an ND have been a couple of unintentional double-taps. Trying to reset and get back on the trigger, I've pulled through the wall as I came back on it. Fortunately, they were all pointed at the berm.
Actually, I correct myself - the closest I've been was using the double set trigger on a muzzleloader a couple weeks ago. I'd get the gun on target and touched the trigger before I was fully aligned with the bullseye. I don't even recall the feel of touching it, it was that light.
I agree i on the primer issue, maybe a high primer ? This incident happened many years ago and i was new to AR's and reloading so i didnt really know how to diagnose what happened . To my knowledge the ar firing pin is blocked until the bolt is completely into battery. I do remember that i did not have the safety selector active.
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No. That's a collision.
At least at my Driver's Ed, and again at my Basic and Experienced Rider's Courses, we were told that most collisions are the result of a series of choices made by the driver - the same carelessness and ignorance we discuss in firearms safety classes. That journalists and the general public use the word "accident" to absolve themselves and others of responsibility, with both cars and guns, doesn't mean they're right. In the MSF courses, they borrow the term "Accident Chain" from aviation, to helpfully demonstrate that most aren't.
A tree falling on your car, a deer jumping in front of it, or a brake line failing due to unknown material defects are accidents - they're outside your control. They "happened." Most collisions aren't accidents. Heck, @Picton's example only counts from his perspective. Realistically, if someone else collides with your car it might be said that you had an accident while they crashed into you; you might equally say you were the victim of their negligence.
In this case, OP knows the correct way to take down his pistol: remove magazine, cycle slide, confirm chamber/mag well/breech face are clear, close slide, pull trigger [...] etc. Despite his knowledge, he neglected to follow the steps in the correct order, failed to confirm the gun was unloaded, then pulled the trigger - in a safe direction. His Accident Chain includes at least two specific behaviors that lead to the event.
Agreed. @45Badger, thanks for sharing your story; this is another thing aviators do to create a culture of safety. We all benefit from the honesty that you've demonstrated here.
So far I count myself fortunate; the closest I've been to an ND have been a couple of unintentional double-taps. Trying to reset and get back on the trigger, I've pulled through the wall as I came back on it. Fortunately, they were all pointed at the berm.
Actually, I correct myself - the closest I've been was using the double set trigger on a muzzleloader a couple weeks ago. I'd get the gun on target and touched the trigger before I was fully aligned with the bullseye. I don't even recall the feel of touching it, it was that light.
Eh, if you knowingly are doing the wrong thing, that’s negligence. If you don’t know what’s wrong because you choose to be ignorant to the rules, that’s negligence.
If you know the rules and try to follow them, but happened to miss following one once because you’re human, that is accidental.
xtry51
NES Member
I rack the slide no less than 3 time on every gun I pick up and want to be empty. Even if I'm the one who emptied it and put it down a minute ago. Muscle memory is a mitigating factor to fatigue and distraction.
Mesatchornug
NES Member
Respectfully, if he'd just fumbled the unload I'd agree. But he also skipped the confirmation step. That's where the chain broke.
Then he honorably took responsibility and shared his experience with the rest of us to remind why we have that conscious step.
The AR firing pin isn’t blocked, it’s floating. However, it can’t protrude, due to geometry, until the bolt is locked in the star chamber.
Military cartridges all use harder primers, the CCI 41s, because of the floating firing pin. Each chambering will get a slight dimple. Manually loading a round will likely increase bolt velocity, but even with normal not-hard match primers it shouldn’t ignite. All that said, it can happen due to the floating firing pin design. Which makes it particularly important to keep an AR pointed in a safe direction when chambering.
Hell, even happened to someone in my company, with military ammo, inside the back of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle when headed onto a patrol. I ended up slow chambering them and using the forward assist when inside vehicles or helicopters after that.
I do this too and I always thought it was obsessive. But better safe than sorry.
I rack 3x, even though it seems excessive (to me). If something comes out unexpectedly on the first and/or second rack, I'll stop and reevaluate. If something comes out on the third, but not the first 2, wtf is going on? I'll still probably keep doing it though, force of habit.
As far as drilling on dropping the mag first and then clearing - I have a Ruger Mark IV that would stovepipe or jam every 3rd round or so. It was much easier to clear it if I dropped the mag first. A couple sessions with that gun and it's automatic.
Thanks for sharing - glad it ended well.
As far as drilling on dropping the mag first and then clearing - I have a Ruger Mark IV that would stovepipe or jam every 3rd round or so. It was much easier to clear it if I dropped the mag first. A couple sessions with that gun and it's automatic.
Thanks for sharing - glad it ended well.
Rockrivr1
NES Member
S&W actually recommends dry firing some of their revolvers to smooth out the trigger pull.. I have a 642 that has a very smooth trigger pull as I sat watching TV just pulling the trigger. Has to have thousands of pulls at this point and as S&W recommended, the trigger is now excellent.
Jenska22
NES Member
Smart is learning from your mistakes, wise is learning from others' mistakes.
+1 to the OP for sharing and reminding us all
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If a pilot does a walk around and does not notice that the tip of his wing is cracked and hanging off and then has a crash, was this a negligent event or an accidental event? I think the word accident should be reserved for acts of God and totally unforeseeable things that lead to these events.
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You would lose count of the number of times I shot Clinton Bush and Obama on TV.
MaverickNH
NES Member
I have an old Walther 22 cal that requires that one manually lower the hammer slowly if cocked. I guess I lowered it a bit too fast. It penetrated the wallboard but not the outer cladding, where I had it pointed as my safe direction.
On my way to the audiologist now! I need to get the volume on my hearing aids turned up.
On my way to the audiologist now! I need to get the volume on my hearing aids turned up.
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This is only half the infrastructure. I’m keeping the rifle reloading set up for slower precision work.One ND and you're giving up reloading?
Sounds like we need a crisis intervention team.
I’m no longer shooting 10,000 rounds a year so don’t need the stuff.
